Aloysius Posted November 6, 2009 Posted November 6, 2009 This is a question of great canonical importance, obviously. So as I understand it, the 1917 Code of Canon Law places any newly discovered territory under the jurisdiction of the diocese from which the expedition which discovered that territory left; whereas, the 1983 Code of Canon Law would place any territory not already under an existing jurisdiction under the direct authority of the Pope. So it would seem to me that, being that the 1917 code of canon law was in place when the expedition left Cape Canaveral and landed on the moon, it claimed the territory of the moon for the Diocese of Orlando. The 1983 Code would only apply to places which hadn't yet been placed under the jurisdiction of a diocese and thus the moon is under the jurisdiction of the diocese of Orlando but, say, Mars is under the jurisdiction of the Pope no matter where the first expedition to land on Mars comes from. What do you think? This will be very important when colonizing the moon, we must know which bishop we'll have to petition for a parish to be set up!
cmotherofpirl Posted November 6, 2009 Posted November 6, 2009 [quote name='Aloysius' date='06 November 2009 - 03:07 AM' timestamp='1257491245' post='1997004'] This is a question of great canonical importance, obviously. So as I understand it, the 1917 Code of Canon Law places any newly discovered territory under the jurisdiction of the diocese from which the expedition which discovered that territory left; whereas, the 1983 Code of Canon Law would place any territory not already under an existing jurisdiction under the direct authority of the Pope. So it would seem to me that, being that the 1917 code of canon law was in place when the expedition left Cape Canaveral and landed on the moon, it claimed the territory of the moon for the Diocese of Orlando. The 1983 Code would only apply to places which hadn't yet been placed under the jurisdiction of a diocese and thus the moon is under the jurisdiction of the diocese of Orlando but, say, Mars is under the jurisdiction of the Pope no matter where the first expedition to land on Mars comes from. What do you think? This will be very important when colonizing the moon, we must know which bishop we'll have to petition for a parish to be set up! [/quote] I assume its whatever diocese where the rocket took off.
zunshynn Posted November 6, 2009 Posted November 6, 2009 Technically that would be the case, except that the Bishop of Rome claimed it... and who's going to argue with him? From WDTPRS: [url="http://wdtprs.com/blog/2009/10/ares-launch-and-moon-trivia/#comments"]Here[/url] [quote]I am watching the launch of Ares via NASA TV. While watching I am chatting with a friend in Rome. He just reminded me that the Moon is under the jurisdiction of the Diocese of Rome. When man colonizes the moon and they have to set up a Catholic chapel, etc., it has already been decided by Rome that any space colonization results in the the extension of jurisdiction of the Diocese of Rome no matter which nation does the colonization. [/quote]
Aloysius Posted November 6, 2009 Author Posted November 6, 2009 haha yeah I saw that. I haven't seen the source though, and it's my understanding that this is based upon the 1983 code of canon law seeing any as yet unclaimed territory as under the jurisdiction of Rome (so those loonies that go out on boats to 'ordain' women outside of jurisdictions are actually under the diocese of Rome)... but my argument would be that the jurisdiction of Orlando has already been expanded to the moon under the 1917 code so it's not an unclaimed territory. it would depend on what exactly Rome said, but I think Rome's claim only counts for Mars and such, since the moon was already taken before Rome made the claim on space colonization.
homeschoolmom Posted November 6, 2009 Posted November 6, 2009 Moon men are an unreached people group.
Era Might Posted November 6, 2009 Posted November 6, 2009 [quote name='Aloysius' date='06 November 2009 - 02:07 AM' timestamp='1257491245' post='1997004']What do you think? This will be very important when colonizing the moon, we must know which bishop we'll have to petition for a parish to be set up! [/quote] Archbishop Milingo
Nunsense Posted November 6, 2009 Posted November 6, 2009 Does it matter if the astronauts were Catholic or not? Just asking because if it depends on the first Catholic to land on the moon, might that make a difference?
goldenchild17 Posted November 6, 2009 Posted November 6, 2009 I think the Pope should take charge of the moon and reassign someone like Cardinal Mahony there. Interesting thread idea here though
JimR-OCDS Posted November 6, 2009 Posted November 6, 2009 Canon lawyers haven't address the question yet, because as far as we know, there are no people living on the moon. Should the time come, Catholics would be under the Bishop that canon law specifies. Being most astronaughts are in the military, they come under the US Bishop of military service men, woman and their families. Jim
Era Might Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 [quote name='Era Might' date='06 November 2009 - 08:55 AM' timestamp='1257515736' post='1997045'] Archbishop Milingo [/quote] Is my witty comment going to go unremarked on? You can't get this kind of humor just anywhere folks!
zunshynn Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 I did not get it, Era. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, because I'm sure it was funny.
CruxOfTheMatterAgain Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 I was discussing this same thing with friends based on the WDTPRS article. I'd like the answer to be Orlando, just because I'm very wary of these sorts of over-extensions of papal power. But, at the same time, it probably would be the Pope. I've looked into this before, and it doesnt seem like any of the twelve men to walk on the moon were Catholic. But more to the point: who is to say how much of the moon they discovered/claimed? I mean, everyone always knew the moon existed...so it wasnt exactly "discovered"...and they only landed on one tiny part of it...so why does that extend to a claim over the whole orb of the moon? I mean...when people were first discovering things on earth, they didnt claim the whole planet.
Nihil Obstat Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 [quote name='CruxOfTheMatterAgain' date='06 November 2009 - 09:01 PM' timestamp='1257562893' post='1997493'] I was discussing this same thing with friends based on the WDTPRS article. I'd like the answer to be Orlando, just because I'm very wary of these sorts of over-extensions of papal power. But, at the same time, it probably would be the Pope. I've looked into this before, and it doesnt seem like any of the twelve men to walk on the moon were Catholic. But more to the point: who is to say how much of the moon they discovered/claimed? I mean, everyone always knew the moon existed...so it wasnt exactly "discovered"...and they only landed on one tiny part of it...so why does that extend to a claim over the whole orb of the moon? I mean...when people were first discovering things on earth, they didnt claim the whole planet. [/quote] There's no continents on the moon, so in theory 100% of it could be colonized. No natural divisions.
Aloysius Posted November 7, 2009 Author Posted November 7, 2009 i think it's kind of connected to continents... I believe the bishops in Spain were the first with jurisdiction over all of the Americas on the basis of Columbus and such; it would would be sub-divided based upon newer expeditions but upon the first expedition I think whole continents are under the jurisdiction of the diocese from which the expedition came. that's my understanding of the principal that the 1917 code would've followed. the WDTPRS article claims that Rome has already declared that any space colonies would fall under its jurisdiction. I've not seen the statement from Rome, but I'd like to because I think it'd be awesome to see ecclesiastic statements with such far seeing future implications. as far as the astronauts being Catholic... they were baptized men, at least some of them (I believe the story goes that the first ones received a presbyterian communion wafer on the moon), and baptized out of an offshoot of the Roman Church, so they'd fall under the jurisdiction of that Roman Catholic bishop. insofar as one is baptized, one is baptized into the One Holy Catholic Church , and Protestants are definitely under Roman jurisdiction in that one Church, IMO.
mommas_boy Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 [quote name='Aloysius' date='06 November 2009 - 02:07 AM' timestamp='1257491245' post='1997004'] This is a question of great canonical importance, obviously. So as I understand it, the 1917 Code of Canon Law places any newly discovered territory under the jurisdiction of the diocese from which the expedition which discovered that territory left; whereas, the 1983 Code of Canon Law would place any territory not already under an existing jurisdiction under the direct authority of the Pope. So it would seem to me that, being that the 1917 code of canon law was in place when the expedition left Cape Canaveral and landed on the moon, it claimed the territory of the moon for the Diocese of Orlando. The 1983 Code would only apply to places which hadn't yet been placed under the jurisdiction of a diocese and thus the moon is under the jurisdiction of the diocese of Orlando but, say, Mars is under the jurisdiction of the Pope no matter where the first expedition to land on Mars comes from. What do you think? This will be very important when colonizing the moon, we must know which bishop we'll have to petition for a parish to be set up! [/quote] Here's a question. Does jurisdiction extend when a territory is "discovered", or when people live there? It would seem to me that a flock is needed for the bishop to have jurisdiction over.
Veridicus Posted November 9, 2009 Posted November 9, 2009 [quote name='Aloysius' date='06 November 2009 - 02:07 AM' timestamp='1257491245' post='1997004'] This is a question of great canonical importance, obviously. So as I understand it, the 1917 Code of Canon Law places any newly discovered territory under the jurisdiction of the diocese from which the expedition which discovered that territory left; whereas, the 1983 Code of Canon Law would place any territory not already under an existing jurisdiction under the direct authority of the Pope. So it would seem to me that, being that the 1917 code of canon law was in place when the expedition left Cape Canaveral and landed on the moon, it claimed the territory of the moon for the Diocese of Orlando. The 1983 Code would only apply to places which hadn't yet been placed under the jurisdiction of a diocese and thus the moon is under the jurisdiction of the diocese of Orlando but, say, Mars is under the jurisdiction of the Pope no matter where the first expedition to land on Mars comes from. What do you think? This will be very important when colonizing the moon, we must know which bishop we'll have to petition for a parish to be set up! [/quote] So the diocese of Rome under the Pope exercising universal jurisdiction over the rest of the universe as yet undiscovered?
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