America And Guns

[OraProMe]

[quote name='Winchester' date='10 November 2009 - 08:29 PM' timestamp='1257902996' post='2000004']
So how are you getting weapons out of bad guy's hands?

It's also a recipe for protecting innocent people. I have firearms and I've paid my fee to reduce the government's infringement of my right to carry. With luck, I'll never have to use it because it's a pain in the butt when you shoot a bad guy.

What is your solution? How many cops are you willing to hire to protect individual people? How much money are you willing to spend out of your paycheck to round up all the guns? And then how are you going to keep criminals from getting them? Since you would reduce my ability to protect myself, how are you going to make it up to me?
[/quote]

Well it's just you're (not just you) are making it sound as if gun control will mean that the crime rate will rise and the government will become totalitarian. But that hasn't been the case in any country with restrictions on weapon ownership.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='10 November 2009 - 09:39 PM' timestamp='1257907178' post='2000069']
unless it does something you like, right? like banning abortion and gay marriage? or is that just violence? by your reasoning any kind of law is bad, because it is threatening violence, etc.
[/quote]
There is no right to gay marriage, so nothing's been stripped.

[Winchester]

[quote name='OraProMe' date='10 November 2009 - 09:40 PM' timestamp='1257907206' post='2000070']
Well it's just you're (not just you) are making it sound as if gun control will mean that the crime rate will rise and the government will become totalitarian. But that hasn't been the case in any country with restrictions on weapon ownership.
[/quote]
The places with the most restrictive gun rights in the US have higher crime rates.

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='10 November 2009 - 10:37 PM' timestamp='1257907021' post='2000064']
no it has more to do with basic competency in the operation(a LOT of people cant drive well enough to pass the test, even in multiple attempts. simple skills, just behaving isnt enough) and it proves that you understand most of the rules well enough that if you want to, you are capable of driving safely and in accordance with the laws. as well, if you have a license and are caught blazing through a red light, a cop can assume that you were willingly breaking the law, not just being ignorant.[/quote]

Anyone who hasn't lived under a rock knows what is safe and unsafe when driving. Most of them simply don't care what is safe, and most have a license in their purse.

[quote]
probably nothing? well i would look at your process for "suspecting" people of decent. if it just consisted of people smiling and not having eyes to close together or wearing shirts without bloodstains, i would probably make you tighten that up a bit. see if the people have a criminal record, mental illness, any outstanding warrants and at least know how to use a gun without killing themselves or somebody else by accident. that's not too hard. most things like that would be grandfathered in, kinda pointless to tryand change the past, i would just make that background test part ofyour next gun purchase.[/quote]

Make me? There is your violence. You have no right to do violence against me for doing something that is not only not immoral, but not a direct violation of the rights of others. That you think you do, as I said earlier, is a problem.

[quote]and i guess if it was for some kind of gun that was later outlawed(like miniguns, there are some legal ones in the US that were made before the laws) some kind of restriction or necessary background check would be necessary if you sold it. like with three wheeled ATVs, i dont think you are allowed to buy or sell them now(cause they are inherently dangerous) but you are allowed to keep owning them, etc.
[/quote]

Miniguns are legal to own by regular individuals. If you can find one for sale and afford it. They're classified as "Destructive devices." And you have to sell your soul to the State to get the approval to do so.

[quote]
dont police already arrest people for having guns without permits(inthe States) or is that just for automatics etc? or is that just inmovies?[/quote]

As I said, in some States, you do not need a permit to carry a firearm concealed. Most States allow open carry without a permission slip from another man.

And in the States where carrying a firearm without a permit is prohibited, yes, police already arrest people for carrying a firearm without a permission slip. And it's already morally wrong for them to do so.

~Sternhauser

Edited November 11, 2009 by Sternhauser

[OraProMe]

[quote name='Winchester' date='10 November 2009 - 09:44 PM' timestamp='1257907442' post='2000073']
The places with the most restrictive gun rights in the US have higher crime rates.
[/quote]
Is that because those places have gun restrictions? Why?

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='OraProMe' date='10 November 2009 - 06:40 PM' timestamp='1257907206' post='2000070']
Well it's just you're (not just you) are making it sound as if gun control will mean that the crime rate will rise and the government will become totalitarian. But that hasn't been the case in any country with restrictions on weapon ownership.
[/quote]

i would say, that at least in regards to crime rate, it tends to be the opposite way around.

[quote name='Winchester' date='10 November 2009 - 06:41 PM' timestamp='1257907267' post='2000071']
There is no right to gay marriage, so nothing's been stripped.
[/quote]

well, if you want to get into semantics, there was a legal right to gay marriage in california before Prop 8 "stripped" that away.

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='10 November 2009 - 10:39 PM' timestamp='1257907178' post='2000069']
unless it does something you like, right? like banning abortion and gay marriage? or is that just violence? by your reasoning any kind of law is bad, because it is threatening violence, etc.
[/quote]

That is not what his reasoning said at all. He said stripping rights by violence is wrong. Laws that protect the free exercise of rights are moral. Statutes that use violence to stop moral and/or non-aggressive behavior are immoral.

~Sternhauser

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='OraProMe' date='10 November 2009 - 10:46 PM' timestamp='1257907608' post='2000079']
Is that because those places have gun restrictions? Why?
[/quote]

Take the teeth and the claws away from a cat, put it in a dark room, and 3 rats will skeletonize it in minutes.

~Sternhauser

Edited November 11, 2009 by Sternhauser

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='10 November 2009 - 10:39 PM' timestamp='1257907178' post='2000069']
unless it does something you like, right? like banning abortion and gay marriage? or is that just violence? by your reasoning any kind of law is bad, because it is threatening violence, etc.
[/quote]

As a matter of fact, yes. You're right.
And, by the way, it is true that it's my opinion that the Federal State should [i]not[/i] have any say on abortion and gay marriage. I am not a very big fan of violence, coercion, and threats.

[Winchester]

[quote name='OraProMe' date='10 November 2009 - 09:46 PM' timestamp='1257907608' post='2000079']
Is that because those places have gun restrictions? Why?
[/quote]
They go up right after because criminals don't care about the laws.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Sternhauser' date='10 November 2009 - 09:48 PM' timestamp='1257907707' post='2000082']
Take the teeth and the claws away from a cat, put it in a dark room, and 3 rats will skeletonize it in minutes.

~Sternhauser
[/quote]
I'm pretty sure that's supposed to be a cow and piranhas.

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Winchester' date='10 November 2009 - 10:51 PM' timestamp='1257907874' post='2000088']
I'm pretty sure that's supposed to be a cow and piranhas.
[/quote]

I guess you're not familiar with D.C. rats.

~Sternhauser

[Winchester]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' date='10 November 2009 - 09:48 PM' timestamp='1257907713' post='2000083']
As a matter of fact, yes. You're right.
And, by the way, it is true that it's my opinion that the Federal State should [i]not[/i] have any say on abortion and gay marriage. [/quote]
The Church does think differently.

Avoiding laws from government will not remove coercion and violence. It will merely move it to some other agent.

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Winchester' date='10 November 2009 - 10:52 PM' timestamp='1257907965' post='2000090']
Avoiding laws from government will not remove coercion and violence. It will merely move it to some other agent.
[/quote]

Good. At least the other agent won't claim a monopoly on violence.

~Sternhauser

[Winchester]

[quote name='Sternhauser' date='10 November 2009 - 09:54 PM' timestamp='1257908047' post='2000093']
Good. At least the other agent won't claim a monopoly on violence.

~Sternhauser
[/quote]
If they're any good, they will.

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='Sternhauser' date='10 November 2009 - 10:37 PM' timestamp='1257907035' post='2000065']
An anarchist/voluntaryist can believe in laws. Many believe in a tort system, however. Antinomians do not believe in laws.

~Sternhauser
[/quote]

And I am pretty sure that automatons believe in the current two-party system.

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Winchester' date='10 November 2009 - 10:54 PM' timestamp='1257908084' post='2000096']
If they're any good, they will.
[/quote]

Remember that time? That time we had a disagreement on the definition of "violence?" . . . that was great.


I think we're having the same kind of disagreement on the meaning of "Good." Kind of like, "Bad criminals go to prison. The best ones go to Washington."

~Sternhauser

Edited November 11, 2009 by Sternhauser

[Winchester]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' date='10 November 2009 - 09:55 PM' timestamp='1257908140' post='2000099']
And I am pretty sure that automatons believe in the current two-party system.
[/quote]
What do snobs believe?

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' date='10 November 2009 - 10:55 PM' timestamp='1257908140' post='2000099']
And I am pretty sure that automatons believe in the current two-party system.
[/quote]

Hey, it's not their fault. Automatons do what they're programmed to do.

~Sternhauser

Edited November 11, 2009 by Sternhauser

[Winchester]

[quote name='Sternhauser' date='10 November 2009 - 09:56 PM' timestamp='1257908203' post='2000100']
Remember that time? That time we had a disagreement on the definition of "violence?" . . . that was great.


I think we're having the same kind of disagreement on the meaning of "Good." Kind of like, "Bad criminals go to prison. The best ones go to Washington."

~Sternhauser
[/quote]
I'm using it in the sense of them being competent.