Fort Hood Suspect Charged With Murder

[Nunsense]

Read this today in the news...

[url="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091112/ap_on_re_us/us_fort_hood_shooting"][u]Fort Hood Suspect Suspect charged with murder[/url][/u]

[i]Officials told The Associated Press before the news conference that it had not been decided whether to charge Hasan with a 14th count of murder related to the death of the unborn child of a pregnant shooting victim. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak about the case publicly.[/i]

Pretty amazing stuff if they do charge him, and he is convicted of the "murder" of an unborn child! Wouldn't this also be stating something about abortion??!!! Let's pray that he is charged with this, it could set a precedent.

[HisChildForever]

He should also be charged with treason and terrorism.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='12 November 2009 - 03:01 PM' timestamp='1258063277' post='2001448']
He should also be charged with treason and terrorism.
[/quote]
I agree.

[Nunsense]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='13 November 2009 - 09:01 AM' timestamp='1258063277' post='2001448']
He should also be charged with treason and terrorism.
[/quote]


Yes, yes, yes, I agree, but my point here is that we are talking about charging him with the murder of an "unborn" child. Are there already precedents that say killing an unborn child is murder or not? Is so, why is there even any debate about abortion at all? If not, then this is pretty important stuff!

[Hassan]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='12 November 2009 - 05:01 PM' timestamp='1258063277' post='2001448']
He should also be charged with treason and terrorism.
[/quote]


What do you base the treason charge on?

Terrorism is defensible (although most here certainly won't approve of such a charge, otherwise they'd have to revisit their positions on hate crimes).


From what I've seen he should be charged with murder.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Hassan' date='12 November 2009 - 05:16 PM' timestamp='1258064191' post='2001455']
What do you base the treason charge on?
[/quote]


Based on his violation of allegiance toward the United States.

[zunshynn]

[quote name='nunsense' date='12 November 2009 - 03:07 PM' timestamp='1258063638' post='2001452']
Yes, yes, yes, I agree, but my point here is that we are talking about charging him with the murder of an "unborn" child. Are there already precedents that say killing an unborn child is murder or not? Is so, why is there even any debate about abortion at all? If not, then this is pretty important stuff!
[/quote]

There is precedent for it... [url="http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/abortion/unbornbill32504.html"]Laci and Connor's Law[/url], (or the Unborn Victims of Violence Act of 2004) passed in April 2004. (Laci Peterson was a woman murdered by her husband, Scott Peterson, when she was 8 months pregnant with their son, Connor in 2002)

Unfortunately it has had little effect on collective views toward abortion, other than infuriating pro-abortion advocates about the "stealthiness of anti-choicers."

The reason being that the law still holds that in cases of homicide, it is murder because the child is wanted by his family, and in the case of abortion, he is not.

Edited November 12, 2009 by zunshynn

[CatherineM]

Read this morning that he is going to be charged federally with 13 premeditated murders. That means he will be eligible for the death penalty. He's lucky they are going federal. Texas fries them quicker.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='12 November 2009 - 05:19 PM' timestamp='1258064388' post='2001457']
Based on his violation of allegiance toward the United States.
[/quote]

This.

[Totus Tuus]

My understanding is that based on precedent shooting a pregnant woman is considered a double homicide federally.

[HisChildForever]

There is also no doubt in my mind that Hasan is a terrorist.

1.[b]Lt. Col. Ralph Peters to Bill O'Reilly: Ft. Hood Shooter Major Hasan Is An Islamic Terrorist - 11/06/09[/b]
Video link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCY1lsJg8zs

2.[b]Soldiers reported that the gunman shouted "Allahu Akbar!" — an Arabic phrase for "God is great!" — before opening fire Thursday, said Lt. Gen. Robert Cone, the base commander. He said officials had not confirmed Hasan made the comment.[/b]

And

[b]According to a Killeen police report in August, an Army employee was charged with scratching Hasan's car, causing $1,000 in damage. Apartment manager John Thompson said the man charged was a soldier back from Iraq, who objected to Hasan's faith and ripped a bumper sticker off the major's car that said: "Allah is Love."

Kim Rosenthal, another neighbor, said Hasan didn't seem too upset by his scratched vehicle, even though it was damaged so badly that he got a new one. "He said it was Ramadan and that he had to forgive people," Rosenthal said. "He forgave him and moved on."

Hasan appeared less forgiving to Dr. Val Finnell when they were classmates in a 2007-08 master's public health program at the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, Md.

He said that at a class presentation by public health students, at which topics like dry cleaning chemicals and house mold were discussed, Hasan talked about U.S. military actions as a war on Islam. Hasan made clear he was a "vociferous opponent" of U.S. wars in Muslim countries, Finnell said.

"He made himself a lightning rod for things," Finnell said. "No one picked on him because he was a Muslim." [/b]

Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091106/ap_on_re_us/us_fort_hood_shooting

3.[b][i]Radical Imam Praises Alleged Fort Hood Shooter, Urges Muslims to 'Follow in Footsteps'[/b][/i]

[b] The personal Web site for a radical American imam living in Yemen who had contact with two 9/11 hijackers is praising alleged Fort Hood shooter Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan as a hero.

The posting Monday on the Web site for Anwar al Awlaki, who was a spiritual leader at two mosques where three 9/11 hijackers worshipped, said American Muslims who condemned the attacks on the Texas military base last week are hypocrites who have committed treason against their religion.

Two U.S. intelligence officials told The Associated Press the Web site was Al Awlaki's. They spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss intelligence collection.

Anwar said the only way a Muslim can justify serving in the U.S. military is if he intends to "follow in the footsteps of men like Nidal."[/b]

Source: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,573174,00.html

4.[b]The BBC interviewed a muslim from the same mosque (the Islamic Community of Greater Killeen) attended by Nidal Malik Hasan. He left no doubt about the radical Islamic viewpoint:

Duane : I’m not going to condemn him for what he did. I don’t know why he did it. I will not, absolutely not, condemn him for what he had done though. If he had done it for selfish reasons I still will not condemn him. He’s my brother in the end. I will never condemn him.
Gavin Lee : There might be a lot of people shocked to hear you say that.
Duane: Well, that’s the way it is. I don’t speak for the community here but me personally I will not condemn him.
Gavin Lee : What are your thoughts towards those that were victims in this?
Duane : They were, in the end, [u]they were troops who were going to Afghanistan and Iraq to kill Muslims. I honestly have no pity for them. It’s just like the majority of the people that will hear this, after five or six minutes they’ll be shocked, after that they’ll forget about them and go on their day.[/u]

Who is "Duane"?

Duane Reasoner Jr., an 18-year-old substitute teacher whose parents worked at Fort Hood, said Major Hassan was told he would be sent to Afghanistan on Nov. 28, and he did not like it. “He said he should quit the Army,” Mr. Reasoner said. [u]“In the Koran, you’re not supposed to have alliances with Jews or Christian or others, and if you are killed in the military fighting against Muslims, you will go to hell.”[/u][/b]

Source: http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2009/11/08/hasans-fellow-muslim-on-slain-soldiers-i-honestly-have-no-pity-for-them/

[zunshynn]

Not all terrorists are religiously motivated.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='zunshynn' date='12 November 2009 - 06:20 PM' timestamp='1258068039' post='2001486']
Not all terrorists are religiously motivated.
[/quote]

I'm very impressed that it only took you three minutes to read my post (including the five minute video).

Just because all terrorists are not religiously motivated does not mean that THIS terrorist was not religiously motivated. The proof is right in front of your face.

[Era Might]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='12 November 2009 - 06:25 PM' timestamp='1258068326' post='2001487']Just because all terrorists are not religiously motivated does not mean that THIS terrorist was not religiously motivated. The proof is right in front of your face.
[/quote]
Do you believe that any possible religious motivation is relevant to his eventual court case? I don't.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Era Might' date='12 November 2009 - 06:42 PM' timestamp='1258069369' post='2001495']
Do you believe that any possible religious motivation is relevant to his eventual court case? I don't.
[/quote]

Then I am interested in hearing your opinion on the information I have provided, as well as your personal explanation. Other than "I don't," of course.

Edited November 12, 2009 by HisChildForever

[zunshynn]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='12 November 2009 - 04:25 PM' timestamp='1258068326' post='2001487']
I'm very impressed that it only took you three minutes to read my post (including the five minute video).

Just because all terrorists are not religiously motivated does not mean that THIS terrorist was not religiously motivated. The proof is right in front of your face.
[/quote]

I never said that this terrorist was not religiously motivated. However, you stated that you had no doubt that he was a terrorist (not arguing with you there) and only followed with a list of things he has done that would lead one to believe his acts of violence were religiously motivated (again... not arguing with that). But those things don't make him a terrorist. The whole going on a murderous rampage, regardless of his motivation, is what makes him a terrorist. A person could be a terrorist and have no religious sensibilities at all, or have some religious sensibilities which are not behind their violent actions.

Of course there is reason to examine motives behind terrorist acts. But I think there's a serious mistake in concluding that someone is a terrorist because of their beliefs. There has been a tendency since 9-11 to conclude that acts of violence are acts of terrorism when they are motivated by religious beliefs, but those really is two different things. The way your post was phrased made it sound like you consider him a terrorist primarily because of his motivation.

I had already seen the video, by the way, and I read fairly quickly (the fact that it was large and bold helped), but that doesn't mean I read negligently.

[Era Might]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='12 November 2009 - 06:45 PM' timestamp='1258069502' post='2001496']
Then I am interested in hearing your opinion of the information I have provided, as well as your personal explanation. Other than "I don't," of course.
[/quote]
I guess I don't see the relevance of whether or not he was motivated by religion (that is, I don't see the relevance of it to his court case). Supposing that he was motivated by his religion: what difference does that make to his court case?

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='zunshynn' date='12 November 2009 - 06:45 PM' timestamp='1258069534' post='2001499']
But I think there's a serious mistake in concluding that someone is a terrorist because of their beliefs. [/quote]

[quote] There has been a tendency since 9-11 to conclude that acts of violence are acts of terrorism when they are motivated by religious beliefs, but those really is two different things. [/quote]

Really? Then how do you explain Al-Qaeda, a terrorist group that is motivated by its religion?

[b]Al-Qaeda is an international terrorist network led by Osama bin Laden. It seeks to rid Muslim countries of what it sees as the profane influence of the West and replace their governments with fundamentalist Islamic regimes.[/b]

http://www.cfr.org/publication/9126/

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Era Might' date='12 November 2009 - 06:48 PM' timestamp='1258069688' post='2001500']
I guess I don't see the relevance of whether or not he was motivated by religion (that is, I don't see the relevance of it to his court case). Supposing that he was motivated by his religion: what difference does that make to his court case?
[/quote]

He would be tried as a terrorist.

This is a good article:

[b]Evidence of a terrorist link to the Fort Hood massacre mounted yesterday with reports that US intelligence officials knew for months before the shooting that Major Nidal Malik Hasan had been trying to contact figures associated with al-Qaeda.[/b]

*

[b]The disclosure was seized upon by senior congressional figures angered by indications that the CIA may have withheld vital information from the army and Congress’s own intelligence and security committees. It followed a demand from Senator Joseph Lieberman for a high-level investigation into what he called “very, very strong signs that Dr Hasan had become an Islamist extremist” — signs that include apparent ties to Anwar al-Awlaki, an American-born cleric who moved to Yemen after the September 11, 2001, attacks and who called Major Hasan “a hero” yesterday.

If a link between Major Hasan and international extremists were proven, it would make the killings on the Texas army base the first terrorist attack on US soil since 2001. It would also provide a focus for critics of the Obama Administration trying to build a case that the President is less single-minded about national security than was his predecessor.[/b]

Link: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article6910273.ece

[onathing1]

[quote name='Era Might' date='12 November 2009 - 07:48 PM' timestamp='1258069688' post='2001500']
I guess I don't see the relevance of whether or not he was motivated by religion (that is, I don't see the relevance of it to his court case). Supposing that he was motivated by his religion: what difference does that make to his court case?
[/quote]


You're right. Him being 'motivated' by his religion will not make any difference in his court case and in his sentencing. You can look at all of the cult killings that were also supposedly motivated by religion; it did not make any difference in their court cases and convictions. Tack on him being what the FBI considers a MASS murderer, him being "religious" will not matter at all.