sacredheartandbloodofjesus Posted November 25, 2009 Posted November 25, 2009 It seems like the Liturgy of the Hours needs a revision, especially because it was mainly done by an alleged Mason (Annibale Bugnini). A good number of the Psalms in the LOTH have 1 or 2 verses missing.... And these verses usually refer to the enemies of God being crushed or condemned to Hell. Anyone else concerned about this? Here is a good example I just found in my LOTH...Week II, Tuesday Daytime prayer Psalm 54:1-6, 8-9 Notice that verse 7 is missing in this Psalm it goes verses 1-6 comma 8-9...hmmm I wonder what that verse says? Lets look it up. Psalm 54 Verse 7...."Turn back the evils upon my enemies; and cut them off in thy truth." Thats wierd.....
sacredheartandbloodofjesus Posted November 25, 2009 Author Posted November 25, 2009 Here is another example....Week II Wednesday, Daytime Prayer Psalm 55:2-15, 17-24 notice how verse 16 is missing....hmmm lets see what this verse has to say Verse 16 "Let death come upon them, and let them go down alive into hell. For there is wickedness in their dwellings: in the midst of them." hmm thats wierd how the missing verse always applies to the enemies of God! Its kinda disturbing.
sacredheartandbloodofjesus Posted November 25, 2009 Author Posted November 25, 2009 Another one....Week II Thursday, Daytime Prayer Psalm 56:2-7b, 9-14 This whole psalm is about the enemies of David and his supplication to God. Notice that verse 8 is missing lets see what that says. Psalm 56 Verse 8 "For nothing shalt thou save them: in thy anger thou shalt break the people in pieces, O God," reffering to his enemies.
sacredheartandbloodofjesus Posted November 25, 2009 Author Posted November 25, 2009 And even another..... Week II Friday Daytime Prayer Psalm 59:2-5, 10-11, 17-18 Notice that verses 6-9 are missing and here is what they say "6 Rise up thou to meet me, and behold: even thou, O Lord, the God of hosts, the God of Israel. Attend to visit all the nations: have no mercy on all them that work iniquity. 7 They shall return at evening, and shall suffer hunger like dogs: and shall go round about the city. 8 Behold they shall speak with their mouth, and a sword is in their lips: for who, say they, hath heard us? 9 But thou, O Lord, shalt laugh at them: thou shalt bring all the nations to nothing." once again refering to his enemies. Notice also how verses 12-16 are missing. Here is what they say "12 God shall let me see over my enemies: slay them not, lest at any time my people forget. Scatter them by thy power; and bring them down, O Lord, my protector: 13 For the sin of their mouth, and the word of their lips: and let them be taken in their pride. And for their cursing and lying they shall be talked of, 14 When they are consumed: when they are consumed by thy wrath, and they shall be no more. And they shall know that God will rule Jacob, and all the ends of the earth. 15 They shall return at evening and shall suffer hunger like dogs: and shall go round about the city. 16 They shall be scattered abroad to eat, and shall murmur if they be not filled." Read these psalms fully then read them the way the LOTH gives them and you will see that they are clearly taken out of context.
Apotheoun Posted November 25, 2009 Posted November 25, 2009 I think the modern Roman Rite Liturgy of the Hours has deleted an entire Psalm or two from the cycle of readings.
Apotheoun Posted November 25, 2009 Posted November 25, 2009 Actually, three inspired Psalms are omitted. See no. 131 at the link below: [url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDWGILH.HTM#Ch%20III-IV"]General Instruction on the Liturgy of the Hours[/url]
sacredheartandbloodofjesus Posted November 25, 2009 Author Posted November 25, 2009 That seems to me to be an attack against the Liturgy.
Apotheoun Posted November 25, 2009 Posted November 25, 2009 (edited) [quote name='sacredheartandbloodofjesus' date='25 November 2009 - 02:53 PM' timestamp='1259186018' post='2009410'] That seems to me to be an attack against the Liturgy. [/quote] Although I do not agree with the removal of any of the Psalms, or even portions of them, from the Liturgy of the Hours, what has been done is done. Perhaps they will be restored in the Roman Rite at some point in the future. That said, the whole psalter continues to be chanted during Vespers and Matins on a weekly basis in the Byzantine Churches. Edited November 25, 2009 by Apotheoun
Aloysius Posted November 25, 2009 Posted November 25, 2009 don't worry, bugnini has met his match. he has no chance to survive... he should make his time. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCP2xCBEI4o[/media]
sacredheartandbloodofjesus Posted November 26, 2009 Author Posted November 26, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='25 November 2009 - 06:30 PM' timestamp='1259191813' post='2009455'] Although I do not agree with the removal of any of the Psalms, or even portions of them, from the Liturgy of the Hours, what has been done is done. Perhaps they will be restored in the Roman Rite at some point in the future. That said, the whole psalter continues to be chanted during Vespers and Matins on a weekly basis in the Byzantine Churches. [/quote] Interesting you brought that up Ive been seriously discerning joining the nearest Byzantine Rite parish. Is Melkite considered Byzantine?
Apotheoun Posted November 26, 2009 Posted November 26, 2009 [quote name='sacredheartandbloodofjesus' date='25 November 2009 - 05:05 PM' timestamp='1259193918' post='2009464'] Interesting you brought that up Ive been seriously discerning joining the nearest Byzantine Rite parish. Is Melkite considered Byzantine? [/quote] Yes, the Melkite Church worships using the Byzantine Rite. Changing [i]sui juris[/i] Churches is a big step, which should not be taken lightly, because it involves not only worshipping God according to a different liturgical rite, but also assimilating oneself to a unique spiritual and doctrinal tradition.
Resurrexi Posted November 26, 2009 Posted November 26, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='25 November 2009 - 06:30 PM' timestamp='1259191813' post='2009455'] Although I do not agree with the removal of any of the Psalms, or even portions of them, from the Liturgy of the Hours, what has been done is done. Perhaps they will be restored in the Roman Rite at some point in the future.[/quote] All 150 inspired psalms are already chanted or read on a weekly basis in the current Roman rite--specifically in its extraordinary form.
Apotheoun Posted November 26, 2009 Posted November 26, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' date='25 November 2009 - 09:25 PM' timestamp='1259209518' post='2009575'] All 150 inspired psalms are already chanted or read on a weekly basis in the current Roman rite--specifically in its extraordinary form. [/quote] But what about in the "ordinary form" of the Roman Rite, which is used by the vast majority of Roman Catholics? I think that that is the form of the liturgy that the original poster was referring to.
Veridicus Posted November 28, 2009 Posted November 28, 2009 Curse Bugnini's wretched name. Then strike it from historical record.
JimR-OCDS Posted November 28, 2009 Posted November 28, 2009 [quote name='Veridicus' date='27 November 2009 - 09:00 PM' timestamp='1259370051' post='2010432'] Curse Bugnini's wretched name. Then strike it from historical record. [/quote] Crucify him, Crucify him! [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/ohno.gif[/img] Gesh! Jim
JimR-OCDS Posted November 28, 2009 Posted November 28, 2009 [quote name='sacredheartandbloodofjesus' date='24 November 2009 - 10:51 PM' timestamp='1259117516' post='2008960'] Here is another example....Week II Wednesday, Daytime Prayer Psalm 55:2-15, 17-24 notice how verse 16 is missing....hmmm lets see what this verse has to say Verse 16 "Let death come upon them, and let them go down alive into hell. For there is wickedness in their dwellings: in the midst of them." hmm thats wierd how the missing verse always applies to the enemies of God! Its kinda disturbing. [/quote] Because as the instruction says in effect, the psychological effect of these words in a time of prayer, are not conducive to prayer, but can be disturbing, thereby distracting from prayer, which the LOH is. When you become Pope, you can make the change, but I hope in isn't in my life time. I don't want to have to purchase two new sets of LOTH's for my wife and myself. The set I have now cost almost $150 as it is. X2 = nearly $300. Jim
Veridicus Posted November 28, 2009 Posted November 28, 2009 [quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='28 November 2009 - 10:11 AM' timestamp='1259421093' post='2010656'] Crucify him, Crucify him! [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/ohno.gif[/img] Gesh! Jim [/quote] Perhaps I did take it a little far. However, it's a far stretch to interpolate his memory upon the Passion of Jesus Christ. I'll let the future perspective of history determine how to remember Bugnini's influence on the liturgical life of the Church Militant.
Apotheoun Posted November 28, 2009 Posted November 28, 2009 [quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='28 November 2009 - 08:21 AM' timestamp='1259421683' post='2010662'] Because as the instruction says in effect, the psychological effect of these words in a time of prayer, are not conducive to prayer . . . [/quote] Well, two thousand years of the Church's worship says otherwise. The Byzantine Churches (both Catholic and Orthodox) continue to pray the whole psalter.
Veridicus Posted November 28, 2009 Posted November 28, 2009 (edited) [quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='28 November 2009 - 10:21 AM' timestamp='1259421683' post='2010662'] When you become Pope, you can make the change, but I hope in isn't in my life time. I don't want to have to purchase two new sets of LOTH's for my wife and myself. The set I have now cost almost $150 as it is. X2 = nearly $300. [/quote] You could probably just write in the missing versus with a pen in the margin. It wouldn't be as pretty, but would be more complete. The give the remaining $300 to your parish of favorite charity. [quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='28 November 2009 - 10:21 AM' timestamp='1259421683' post='2010662'] Because as the instruction says in effect, the psychological effect of these words in a time of prayer, are not conducive to prayer, but can be disturbing, thereby distracting from prayer, which the LOH is. [/quote] The canon of the Bible was established as the books which would be used for liturgical purposes; that is which texts among the many circulating contained the true, inspired Word of God worthy of being honored during Worhsip and prayer. What if the Passion readings or more graphic portions of Revelations have detrimental "psychological effects in a time of prayer are not conducive to prayer." Should we strike these passages from the GIRM? Edited November 28, 2009 by Veridicus
Apotheoun Posted November 28, 2009 Posted November 28, 2009 [quote name='Veridicus' date='28 November 2009 - 02:33 PM' timestamp='1259444031' post='2010766'] You could probably just write in the missing versus with a pen in the margin. It wouldn't be as pretty, but would be more complete. [/quote] [url="http://www.synaxis.info/psalter/5_english/5_english.html"]The Orthodox Psalter Project[/url]
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