Muslims On Flight Cause Panic

[mortify]

[quote name='extempers' date='10 December 2009 - 09:19 PM' timestamp='1260497991' post='2018043']
I suggest doing some serious reading on the subject before making such mediocre and well-refuted claims.
Jihadwatch is not serious reading [/quote]

Ya akhi, why do you presume me to be an ignorant kafir? I once practiced your deen. I don't need to refer to some tertiary resource, the Sahih Hadith record your Rasul's evil deeds.

[Pomak]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='11 December 2009 - 05:15 AM' timestamp='1260468905' post='2017594']
It is unlikely that a person will find any statistics on the number of terrorist attacks perpetrated by Muslims, because to collect information of that kind in Western countries is held to be politically incorrect.
[/quote]

That book I mentioned, dying to win, is exactly that. It found that Muslims were not the majority, just sizable minority. It also looks at the way to judge terrorism, if using religion to explain it is best way or if using geo-political factors is. (There is a tendency for terrorism to rear its head when a country is occupied)

As NAS said "I can show them n***** the water but I can't make them drink.

[extempers]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='10 December 2009 - 09:26 PM' timestamp='1260498376' post='2018047']
Robert Spencer is a brilliant man with outstanding credentials.
[/quote]
Yup, David Duke is "brilliant" too. I wonder how much of Spencer you have actually read or does his "well cited" arguments fit your narrative against Islam so well that there's no questioning his authority?

It was sad when I was working at Borders and non-handicapped people were buying his books in audio.
Have we really gotten to that level?


[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' date='10 December 2009 - 09:27 PM' timestamp='1260498422' post='2018048']
Look at Hitler's religious beliefs in the period of 1943-1945 and then say that he didn't use his "Christianity" as a simple means of appealing to the Germans and getting ahead in the political game.
[/quote]

Yes, that is the counter-argument. But did Hitler use his hands to execute 12 million people and millions more on the battlefield? Who are the real killers?
And what of the Pope during this time? His lack of public condemnation as well as denying the escape of Jews to South America are not exactly conducive to the idea that Christianity played no part in Nazism.

Allahu Alim (God knows best). These are not important points. We can play the blame game and the number game as well, but the real argument is that Christian hands have been bloody for many centuries and continue to be so and while there are political and ideological reasons for many atrocities, the same excuse must be applied to Muslims of today.

Go live in Gaza for a few years and tell me how things work out. And yes, there ARE Christians in Gaza. I'll never forget reading how they forgot about Orthodox Christmas during the massacre.
Christmas season is here for you all. Can you imagine the situation is so bad that you FORGET Christmas?

SubhanAllah (All Glory belongs to God).

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='extempers' date='10 December 2009 - 09:47 PM' timestamp='1260499634' post='2018068']
Yup, David Duke is "brilliant" too. I wonder how much of Spencer you have actually read or does his "well cited" arguments fit your narrative against Islam so well that there's no questioning his authority?

It was sad when I was working at Borders and non-handicapped people were buying his books in audio.
Have we really gotten to that level?

[/quote]

Are you making a personal attack against my character by suggesting that I must be handicapped since I like Spencer, while simultaneously insulting those who do have either a mental or physical handicap?

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='extempers' date='10 December 2009 - 09:47 PM' timestamp='1260499634' post='2018068']
Yes, that is the counter-argument. But did Hitler use his hands to execute 12 million people and millions more on the battlefield? Who are the real killers?
And what of the Pope during this time? His lack of public condemnation as well as denying the escape of Jews to South America are not exactly conducive to the idea that Christianity played no part in Nazism.

Allahu Alim (God knows best). These are not important points. We can play the blame game and the number game as well, but the real argument is that Christian hands have been bloody for many centuries and continue to be so and while there are political and ideological reasons for many atrocities, the same excuse must be applied to Muslims of today.

Go live in Gaza for a few years and tell me how things work out. And yes, there ARE Christians in Gaza. I'll never forget reading how they forgot about Orthodox Christmas during the massacre.
Christmas season is here for you all. Can you imagine the situation is so bad that you FORGET Christmas?

SubhanAllah (All Glory belongs to God).
[/quote]
The question, then, is: Does Christianity kill people? Or do Christians kill people?

[extempers]

[quote name='mortify' date='10 December 2009 - 09:31 PM' timestamp='1260498674' post='2018054']
Ya akhi, why do you presume me to be an ignorant kafir? I once practiced your deen. I don't need to refer to some tertiary resource, the Sahih Hadith record your Rasul's evil deeds.
[/quote]

Ya akhi ibn Addam, are you majnuuna? How sad you have sold your tawheed for shirk, your eemaan for the promises of waswas, your Haqq for baatil.
Allah guides Whom He Wills. May Allah open your qalb to Islam and give you hidayah.
Ameen ya Rabbil Alameen.


So how far practicing were you? What seerah books did you read? Enlighten me with your erudition.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='10 December 2009 - 01:15 PM' timestamp='1260468905' post='2017594']
It is unlikely that a person will find any statistics on the number of terrorist attacks perpetrated by Muslims, because to collect information of that kind in Western countries is held to be politically incorrect.
[/quote]


You haven't done a lot of work in any of the social sciences.

[mortify]

[quote name='extempers' date='10 December 2009 - 09:52 PM' timestamp='1260499970' post='2018077']
Ya akhi ibn Addam, are you majnuuna? How sad you have sold your tawheed for shirk, your eemaan for the promises of waswas, your Haqq for baatil.
Allah guides Whom He Wills. May Allah open your qalb to Islam and give you hidayah.
Ameen ya Rabbil Alameen.


So how far practicing were you? What seerah books did you read? Enlighten me with your erudition.
[/quote]

God does guide, He guided me to Siratul Mustaqeem which is the Lord Jesus Christ, who said "I am al-Haqq" and "I am the Way."

So now the interest is on me? Tell me akhi, do the Seerat deny that Muhammad permitted the rape of captured women of war?

[extempers]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='10 December 2009 - 09:49 PM' timestamp='1260499788' post='2018072']
Are you making a personal attack against my character by suggesting that I must be handicapped since I like Spencer, while simultaneously insulting those who do have either a mental or physical handicap?
[/quote]
Are you still trying the "he's Muslim, he must be insulting me" card while still not apologizing for your outrageous statements of the past?

Getting old.

I would have a problem with a blind person buying his books, but not at the same level as I would with a person with all his/her faculties working and relying on an audio book.
And that is why I wrote non-handicapped. But good try my sister in humanity!

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' date='10 December 2009 - 09:50 PM' timestamp='1260499826' post='2018074']
The question, then, is: Does Christianity kill people? Or do Christians kill people?
[/quote]
Indeed that is the question. Last semester I took a high level seminar "War, Empire and Ethics" class. I wasn't expecting it, but the majority of the primary sources were the Bible, famous Christian scholars and church resolution like from the mennonites.

One second I'm reading Aquinas and its all good and next second BAM Catholic church releases statements allowing for almost any action to stop nuclear threats.

The problem is that the message of Jesus (as) was confined to a particular time and people and revelations regarding involvement in warfare were not given to him like they were given to Moses (as) and Muhammad (s), so what do Christians do?

All rules of engagement, combat and just war theory are conjecture from the church and its scholars with severe disagreement over time. One would cannot deny the stance of Aquinas regarding warfare is nowhere close to what is the current position of the Catholic church, although their allowance for differing opinions might be cited.

In Islam, explicit rules are given to such detail that we know we can't even harm crops/trees in warfare!

We know our just war theory, our rules of engagement and it is all backed by example.
Given, there are groups who have abandoned all these rules and have declared jihad on their own.
But if you've studied Islamic just war theory, you know that only the leader of the Muslim state can call for jihad.

So to answer your question, it's a problem with Christianity as well as with Christians.

[Nihil Obstat]

People buy audio books for reasons other than disabilities. That's a very ignorant comment.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='extempers' date='10 December 2009 - 10:07 PM' timestamp='1260500877' post='2018087']
Are you still trying the "he's Muslim, he must be insulting me" card while still not apologizing for your outrageous statements of the past?

Getting old. [/quote]

I am not going to apologize for posting historical facts about Muhammad.

[extempers]

[quote name='mortify' date='10 December 2009 - 10:02 PM' timestamp='1260500558' post='2018084']
God does guide, He guided me to Siratul Mustaqeem which is the Lord Jesus Christ, who said "I am al-Haqq" and "I am the Way."

So now the interest is on me? Tell me akhi, do the Seerat deny that Muhammad permitted the rape of captured women of war?
[/quote]

And Jesus (as) is, but he is no ilah let alone Allah (swt). The interest is only for your sake, so no worries.

Seerat? I'm guessing you are desi? Pakistani perhaps?

And when did everyone start copying my style of answering a question with a question? Lol, I guess I deserve it.

Tell me the seerah books you have read and your level of knowledge in Islam before we have any discussion.
It's based on this that I will address your claims.
Were you an actual talib ilm or just a typical layman with cursory knowledge of Islam.

With all respect, it seems like the latter if you are claiming rape.

[extempers]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='10 December 2009 - 10:12 PM' timestamp='1260501146' post='2018091']
I am not going to apologize for posting historical facts about Muhammad.
[/quote]
Growing stuff is a historical fact?
Really?


Ah well, alhamdillah for discussion.

[mortify]

[quote name='extempers' date='10 December 2009 - 10:13 PM' timestamp='1260501224' post='2018092']
With all respect, it seems like the latter if you are claiming rape.
[/quote]

Are you saying Muhammad did not permit rape of captured women?

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='extempers' date='10 December 2009 - 10:13 PM' timestamp='1260501224' post='2018092']
And when did everyone start copying my style of answering a question with a question?
[/quote]
[size="1"]Jesus did it first.[/size]

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='extempers' date='10 December 2009 - 10:14 PM' timestamp='1260501299' post='2018094']
Growing stuff is a historical fact?
Really?

Ah well, alhamdillah for discussion.
[/quote]

Apo already addressed this. Next.

[Hassan]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='10 December 2009 - 09:26 PM' timestamp='1260498376' post='2018047']
Robert Spencer is a brilliant man with outstanding credentials.

[b]ROBERT SPENCER is the director of Jihad Watch, a program of the David Horowitz Freedom Center, and the author of nine books on Islam and jihad, including the New York Times bestsellers The Truth About Muhammad and The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades). Spencer is a weekly columnist for Human Events and FrontPage Magazine, and has led seminars on Islam and jihad for the United States Central Command, United States Army Command and General Staff College, the U.S. Army's Asymmetric Warfare Group, the FBI, the Joint Terrorism Task Force, and the U.S. intelligence community.

Spencer has also written eleven monographs and well over three hundred articles about jihad and Islamic terrorism. Along with the bestsellers The Truth About Muhammad (Regnery) and The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades) (Regnery), he is the author of Islam Unveiled: Disturbing Questions About the World's Fastest Growing Faith (Encounter); Onward Muslim Soldiers: How Jihad Still Threatens America and the West (Regnery); Religion of Peace? Why Christianity Is and Islam Isn't (Regnery), a refutation of moral equivalence and call for all the beneficiaries and heirs of Judeo-Christian Western civilization, whatever their own religious or philosophical perspective may be, to defend it from the global jihad; and Stealth Jihad: How Radical Islam is Subverting America without Guns or Bombs (Regnery), an expose of how jihadist groups are advancing their agenda in the U.S. today by means other than terrorist attacks.. He is coauthor, with Daniel Ali, of Inside Islam: A Guide for Catholics (Ascension), and editor of the essay collection The Myth of Islamic Tolerance: How Islamic Law Treats Non-Muslims (Prometheus). His latest book is The Complete Infidel's Guide to the Koran (Regnery). Spencer's books have been translated into many languages, including Spanish, Italian, Finnish, and Bahasa Indonesia.

Along with his weekly columns, Spencer has completed a weekly Qur'an commentary at Jihad Watch, Blogging the Qur'an, which has been translated into Czech, Danish, German and Italian. He is an Associate Fellow of the American Freedom Alliance and a contributing writer to Steven Emerson's Investigative Project on Terrorism. His articles on Islam and other topics have appeared in the New York Post, the Washington Times, the Dallas Morning News, Canada's National Post, Middle East Quarterly, WorldNet Daily, First Things, Insight in the News, National Review Online, and many other journals.

In addition to the seminars on Islam and jihad that Spencer has led for the United States Central Command, United States Army Command and General Staff College, a Department of Homeland Security task force, the FBI, branches of the Joint Terrorism Task Force, and the U.S. intelligence community, he has discussed jihad, Islam, and terrorism at a workshop sponsored by the U.S. State Department and the German Foreign Ministry. He has also appeared on the BBC, CNN, FoxNews, PBS, MSNBC, CNBC, C-Span, France24 and Croatia National Televison (HTV), as well as on numerous radio programs including Bill O'Reilly's Radio Factor, The Laura Ingraham Show, Bill Bennett's Morning in America, Michael Savage's Savage Nation, The Sean Hannity Show, The Alan Colmes Show, The G. Gordon Liddy Show, The Neal Boortz Show, The Michael Medved Show, The Michael Reagan Show, The Rusty Humphries Show, The Larry Elder Show, The Barbara Simpson Show, Vatican Radio, and many others.
[size="5"][i]
[b]Spencer (MA, Religious Studies, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill)[/b] [/i][/size]has been studying Islamic theology, law, and history in depth since 1980. As an Adjunct Fellow with the Free Congress Foundation in 2002 and 2003, he wrote a series of monographs on Islam that are still available from the Foundation: An Introduction to the Qur'an; Women and Islam; An Islamic Primer; Islam and the West; The Islamic Disinformation Lobby; Islam vs. Christianity; and Jihad in Context. More recently he has also written monographs for the David Horowitz Freedom Center: What Americans Need to Know About Jihad; The Violent Oppression of Women In Islam (with Phyllis Chesler); Islamic Leaders' Plan for Genocide; and Muslim Persecution of Christians.[/b]
[/quote]


That always makes me cringe.

You know we have a book store stand where like Alumni and Faculty authors who are published are feature. I've never seen anything by him featured. I don't know if the school is embarrassed to be associated with him or what. I guess the business school would be proud of him. Perhaps they have his stuff displayed somewhere.

[extempers]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='10 December 2009 - 10:09 PM' timestamp='1260500972' post='2018089']
People buy audio books for reasons other than disabilities. That's a very ignorant comment.
[/quote]

Not at all, it's a human observation of how we seek knowledge. If he was picking up the bible or a fictional book, I would have no problem.
But to digest hate via audio? That's just sad.


There was a time when there was no such thing as a glossary or a table of contents. If you wanted to know something then you would have to read the whole book. People would travel far distances just to obtain certain information.

And this is how you could have one person who revolutionized science, math, history, law and yet still wrote countless books on Islam like Avicenaa/Ibn Rushd.


Now we have almost everything at our fingertips and yet we have become dumber, and yes I say this against myself as well.

But throw away this argument if you find it offensive, I apologize.

[extempers]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='10 December 2009 - 10:17 PM' timestamp='1260501459' post='2018099']
Apo already addressed this. Next.
[/quote]

Hahah, he said it was a joke? Great apology

But you didn't address it. In fact you denied you even said it while I was present

My sister in humanity, why don't you just delete your post, or say it was an inappropriate comment and let's move on.

Or we can just continue tit for tat game where I continually call you out for it and you keep trying to read something in my posts that is not there? I should let you know I'm a TOTAL KID AT HEART so I got no problem playing

[extempers]

[quote name='mortify' date='10 December 2009 - 10:16 PM' timestamp='1260501376' post='2018096']
Are you saying Muhammad did not permit rape of captured women?
[/quote]
No.

Are you saying you actually read some seerah books? How about a hadith collection in arabic?
You answer, I answer