Honor Killings

[Winchester]

[quote name='bhrhrahraa' date='09 December 2009 - 08:41 PM' timestamp='1260409287' post='2017097']
Regarding Jesus as the son of God is blasphemous in the eyes of Muslims. However, we love and accept Jesus as a great prophet, we accept his teachings. In fact, he is merely a prophet and nothing more.
Nice to see the level of tolerance and respect you encompass for the wide array of faiths floating around. But alas, the words of one cannot speak for the entirety of civilization.
[/quote]
Well, if you research my posts, you will not always find me so moderate. But thanks.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Winchester' date='09 December 2009 - 06:38 PM' timestamp='1260409122' post='2017094']
This does not mean Mohammed and his followers are condemned to Hell or that they [i]intentionally [/i]oppose God.
[/quote]
One has to bear in mind the distinction between material and formal opposition to God.

[rkwright]

[quote name='Winchester' date='09 December 2009 - 08:43 PM' timestamp='1260409396' post='2017100']
Well, if you research my posts, you will not always find me so moderate. But thanks.
[/quote]

lol I know I read that.... I was like is he talking about the same guy? Is that sarcasm??

Alas... you have deceived the muslims Winnie! you sly dog

[KnightofChrist]

MAINTAINING FAMILY HONOR

by Al Skudsi bin Hookah, roving reporter and foreign correspondent for The Gaza Gajeera.
Jan 20, 2003

I am very unhappy. Our way of life is under attack. And we are not fighting back. Deep down, we know that when a woman has disgraced her family, nothing will restore honor except by killing her. This is understood in Jordan, Syria, Yemen, Lebanon, Egypt, the Gaza strip and the West Bank. So why are we Arabs telling the Western press that honor killing is cultural, that it is not really part of Islam? Our way of life is based on maintaining our honor. And make no mistake about it: a woman does tarnish her family's honor by engaging in pre-marital sex, or by getting herself raped, when she seeks divorce and when she marries against her family's wishes.

Why are we pussyfooting? Are we ashamed of what we do? Why are some of us trying to play it down? Like the people who say it's the same as battering women in America. Come on, now. Sometimes, when we correct a wife's behavior by a well-deserved beating, we can maybe go a little too far. But that's different. Or there's this guy, Mohammed Haz Yahya at the Hebrew University (wouldn't you know it), who makes believe killing to protect our honor is like the western world's crime of passion. Come on now.

It's not just religious leaders who know it's the right thing to do. Many of the most progressive political leaders are the ones who defend the practice. To maintain the integrity of our society and our traditions, we must maintain our honor by any and every means. And keeping our women pure is a big part of our honor. So there's no point saying honor killing isn't really part of our religion. Our religion isn't just what's in the Koran. Honor killings fit into the cultural context of today's Islamic teachings. Honor and Islam are inextricably bound; they are what give our life meaning. A strong religion demands we choose to maintain our honor.

I am also annoyed that news reports focus on gory details instead of showing compassionate understanding of what motivated the men who act vigorously to maintain honor. They are the real victims. Their honor was violated, so killing the offending woman is self-defense. Instead, like in this story, reporters graphically describe the damage done by the ax -- of course an ax is going to do damage. Listen to this:

" Two months ago, when she tried to run away yet again, Kina grabbed a kitchen knife and an ax and stabbed and beat the girl [his daughter] until she lay dead in the blood-smeared bathroom of the family's Istanbul apartment. He then commanded one of his daughters-in-law to clean up the mess. When his two sons came home from work 14 hours later, he ordered them to dispose of the 5-foot-3 corpse, which had been wrapped in a carpet and a blanket. The girl's head had been so mutilated, police said, it was held together by a knotted cloth."

And this:

"Kifaya Husayn, a 16-year-old Jordanian girl, was lashed to a chair by her 32-year-old brother. He gave her a drink of water and told her to recite an Islamic prayer. Then he slashed her throat. Immediately afterward, he ran out into the street, waving the bloody knife and crying, 'I have killed my sister to cleanse my honor.' Kifaya's crime? She was raped by another brother, a 21-year-old man. Her judge and jury? Her own uncles, who convinced her eldest brother that Kifaya was too much of a disgrace to the family's honor to be allowed to live. The murderer was sentenced to fifteen years, but the sentence was subsequently reduced to seven and a half years, an extremely severe penalty by Jordanian standards."

This one is better. At least the reporter focused on why the brother had to kill his sister.

A 25-year-old Palestinian who hanged his sister with a rope: "I did not kill her, but rather helped her to commit suicide and to carry out the death penalty she sentenced herself to. I did it to wash with her blood the family honor that was violated because of her and in response to the will of society that would not have had any mercy on me if I didn't . . . Society taught us from childhood that blood is the only solution to wash the honor."

And here, at least, we can see it isn't just some ignorant slobs who live in the boonies.

" `I would do what I have to do,' said Bassam al-Hadid, a Jordanian with an American doctorate who spent 12 years as a hospital administrator in the United States, when asked whether he would kill a daughter who had sex outside marriage."

I have to say that I'm heartened to see that in families that respect themselves, women are as dedicated as men.

"Samia Sarwar, 29, mother of two boys aged 4 and 8, was shot dead today in lawyer Hina Jillani's office by a bearded man accompanying her mother and uncle. `He's my helper, I can't walk,' said the mother, when Hina told the two men to get out. As the mother went to sit down in front of Hina's desk, and Saima stood up from her chair, the bearded man whipped out a pistol from his waistcoat and shot Saima in the head, killing her instantly."

A European I know said he doesn't understand why a girl who is raped has to die to protect her family's honor. "After all," he said, "it isn't her fault". Is it so hard to understand that when an unmarried woman is no longer sexually pure, the family is humiliated? Her lack of chastity brings shame to everyone in her family. How else can her family's honor be cleansed except by her blood? What's to understand?

Actually, it's important that you understand that her impure state can destabilize morality in our whole society. If you don't understand that, you won't understand that our honor demands that we must tolerate no impertinance.

Everyone must know their place. Men must be in control of their families. Women and children must obey. Women must devote themselves to the care of their husband and children. Or things will spiral out of control.

We could end up with a big bunch of Kola Boofs. And you know what a headache she is. She was born respectable but she was brought up in America. Maybe that has something to do with it. She poses barebreasted on the cover of that disgusting book she wrote and she no longer considers herself a Muslim.

It's too bad her publisher had to be threatened before he stopped publishing her latest book. But he should have known better than to try to publish a book that is so disrespectful to the Arab Islamic communities in Europe and in Africa.

Boof has made terrible accusations. Listen to this one:

"As a black African woman, I cannot and will not be silent as black men in Arab nations are chained up like dogs to the back doors of Muslim households and fed, literally, from doggie bowls. I will not be silent as African women are raped, mutilated and mentally demeaned by sadistic human beings calling themselves children of Allah. I will not be silent as the number of little black boys who are sodomized by their Arab masters continues to soar, while even worse atrocities attend the lives of little black girls."

So maybe her disobedience started small. But, now, like the Shariah court in London's Islamic community said: she is guilty of "deliberately and maliciously bearing false witness against religious sentiment and of willing treason against her Arab Muslim father's people and against her nation, the Sudan."

And that's why Sudan has a fatwa out on her.

[extempers]

I read "pussyfooting" and I stopped reading.

[size="4"]Warning:[/size]
Checking the authenticity of sources partnered with an understanding that individual cultural cases do not remotely reflect what a world-wide religion stands for will lead to a better understanding of Islam.

[Hassan]

[quote name='extempers' date='09 December 2009 - 09:04 PM' timestamp='1260410650' post='2017129']
I read "pussyfooting" and I stopped reading.

[size="4"]Warning:[/size]
Checking the authenticity of sources partnered with an understanding that individual cultural cases do not remotely reflect what a world-wide religion stands for will lead to a better understanding of Islam.
[/quote]

The article says the author's name is in part "Ibn Hookah"

For those who don't know a Hookah is a water pipe and 'Ibn' is Arabic fro "son of".

[bhrhrahraa]

The guy who wrote it is a fraud-- most of his articles deal with demonizing Islam, attaching false attributes to Islam and etc.
It's sad that this crackhead was your source of knowledge, inspiration and information.

[HisChildForever]

[quote] The saga began in mid-July when Rifqa, after a dispute with her parents, bolted from her home and rode a bus to Orlando. There she took refuge with the Rev. Blake Lorenz, the pastor of a conservative Christian congregation, the Global Revolution Church, and his wife Beverly, whom the cheerleader and honor student had met on Facebook. Almost three weeks later, on Aug. 6, the Lorenzes finally let authorities and Rifqa's frantic parents know the girl was with them. Then, a few days later, Rifqa dropped a bombshell to an Orlando television station: she had run away, she claimed, because her family, angry about her conversion to Christianity, had "threatened to kill me."

Wearing a white dress and a silver cross, her dark hair often falling over her scared eyes, the small and slender Rifqa insisted in the TV interview (now on YouTube) that her father Mohamed Bary, a Columbus jeweler, "said he would kill me or send me back to Sri Lanka," where she said "they have asylums where they put people like me." She said her death would be a Muslim "honor killing," the kind of murder that women in deeply conservative Muslim societies are sometimes victims of when they're deemed to have shamed their families. (The U.N. Population Fund estimates that there are as many as 5,000 worldwide honor killings every year.) Rifqa said that her father, upon discovering her Facebook profile and its declarations of her Christian faith, told her, "If you have this Jesus in your heart, you're dead to me, you're not my daughter." She added, almost hysterically, "They have to kill me ... I want to worship Jesus freely. I don't want to die!" [/quote]

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1918228,00.html

[extempers]

I don't think anyone is reading what I post, lol

[Winchester]

[quote name='extempers' date='09 December 2009 - 09:54 PM' timestamp='1260413675' post='2017172']
I don't think anyone is reading what I post, lol
[/quote]
So you do support the invasion of Panama!

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='extempers' date='09 December 2009 - 09:54 PM' timestamp='1260413675' post='2017172']
I don't think anyone is reading what I post, lol
[/quote]

I feel the exact same. Case in point, the last article I provided.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='bhrhrahraa' date='09 December 2009 - 09:33 PM' timestamp='1260412381' post='2017156']
The guy who wrote it is a fraud-- most of his articles deal with demonizing Islam, attaching false attributes to Islam and etc.
It's sad that this crackhead was your source of knowledge, inspiration and information.
[/quote]

If you can provide proof I will believe 'him' to be a fraud. But I have found that 'he' is actually a she, the claimed last name is used as a last name, and the newspaper this person claims to write for seems to exist.

[bhrhrahraa]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='09 December 2009 - 09:58 PM' timestamp='1260413924' post='2017180']
If you can provide proof I will believe 'him' to be a fraud. But I have found that 'he' is actually a she, the claimed last name is used as a last name, and the newspaper this person claims to write for seems to exist.
[/quote]

First of all, the name is pathetic. I'm sorry but I don't think I can take this person seriously.
Secondly, is this person claiming to be a Muslim? If so, then his/her or whatever it is, it's beliefs do not represent the Islamic stance and therefore, this person most likely isn't a Muslim. Clearly, it's a brainwashed, unethical, profound writer and merely cannot accept Islam. If, on the other hand, it left Islam, then it's obvious why it is writing such articles: to provoke Muslims and out of rage.

It would be extremely funny if it's an apostate and it feels that way. It's typical to see such a behavior only after one leaves its own religion.
Also, there are quite a number of people who claim to be Muslims and preach false things about Islam just to gain supporters. Desperate much? If Islam was so bad, then why not leave it all together? No one's forcing anyone to remain a Muslim.

This person isn't a big deal. Just one view of a corrupted, wayward coagulated milk.

PS: Hookahs are disgusting, just like the writer itself.

Edited December 10, 2009 by bhrhrahraa

[KnightofChrist]

Qur'an 4:15 "If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death [by starvation] claims them."


[url="http://www.examiner.com/x-5919-Norfolk-Crime-Examiner~y2009m7d11-Afghanistan-legalizes-rape-starvation-of-women"]Afghanistan legalizes rape, starvation of women[/url]

This week, Afghan President Hamid Karzai signed legislation which among other things, allows Afghan men to starve their wives if they refuse to have sex with them. The measure was an amendment to a law which have husbands the right to force themselves on their wives, if they did not consent.

Some NATO countries have threatened to withdraw their troops from Afghanistan as a result of the measure.

Speaking to British newspaper The Independent, women's rights activist Wazhma Frough said that hard line clerics pressured the Justice Ministry to retain the most outrageous parts of the original legislation. She said: "There have been a few little changes, but they are not enough. For example, if the wife doesn't accept her husband's sexual requirements then he can deny her food."

Afghanistan's Muslim law now allows rapists to go free if they offer to marry their victims. The same practice actually exists in Mexico and is known as ‘Rapto.’

The new law has touched-off riots in the streets of Kabul, as hundreds of women protested the law which would be unthinkable in a civilized society. However, groups of men from Kabul’s largest Shia madrassa also took to the streets and attacked the women. The event has been completely ignored by the American press.

Activist Razia Jan, who is currently building a women's center in Bamiyan said: "Violence against women is already endemic. Men pay thousands of dollars for young girls and they are treated like slaves. Women here are already so vulnerable."

Of course, government sanctioned violence against women is nothing new throughout the Muslim world.

Saudi Arabia recently revised their rape laws (of sorts). Now, in order for a woman to prove that she was raped, she must have three men testify as witnesses to the crime. Until recently, a female rape victim was required to bring four male witnesses to court.

Of course, under such conditions, the crime of rape is almost never prosecuted in Saudi Arabia. In fact, it is often the woman who ends up in jail and charged with adultery or indecency charges.

In 2007 the victim of a brutal gang rape was given a sentence of 200 lashes and six years in prison for having been in an unrelated man’s car at the time of the attack. After the case garnered major world media attention she was pardoned by King Abdullah, though he claimed the sentence to be fair.

A few years ago, a book entitled "The Islamic Woman" was published which detailed beating techniques to be imposed on Muslim women--at the hands of their controlling husbands. The book's author is a Muslim Imam named Mohamed Kamal Mostafa, currently living in Spain.

"The Islamic Woman" instructs men to hit women "on their hands and feet, making sure to use a cudgel that is not too thick so as not to leave permanent scar tissue." Mostafa also warns his fellow Muslims to "inflict blows that are not too strong nor too hard, because the aim is to make them suffer psychologically."

Murder is also inflicted upon Muslim women by their husbands, fathers, and brothers. The practice is called "honor killings." A Muslim woman or young girl will often be killed by a male family member, after she is believed to have committed an act which defies Islam.


In 2003, a Jordanian man was sentenced to one year in prison, for the murder of his own sister. The young woman became pregnant as a result of being raped by a neighbor. Her family then decided that she must marry the rapist. Before the forced marriage could take place, word of the pregnancy spread throughout the community. The woman's brother returned from a trip to slurs and jeers, calling him the "brother of a silly sally."

According to the Jordan Times, the man was so angry with his sister over the fact that she had been raped and impregnated--he slipped into her room at night and strangled her with a telephone cord.

The Jordanian paper published excerpts of the court's rulings. They are as follows: "The victim's actions were an unlawful and dangerous act that brought disgrace and shame to her family. He (the brother) could no longer control himself and became very angry. It does not matter that the defendant killed his sister hours after returning from Aqaba. He was still under the influence of extreme anger, which caused him to lose his ability because of the unlawful act committed by his sister."

*Reporter’s note: It is a travesty beyond imagination that we have sent our young men to fight and die in a country which has established a government that condones rape and a medieval type of oppression against their women. It is also a travesty that American women’s rights groups such as NOW (National Organization for Women) spend their resources lobbying for the continuation of late-term abortions, rather than bringing attention to the plight of their counterparts throughout the Muslim world.

In my opinion, we should pull-out our troops and all forms of support to Muslim countries which condone such brutality upon women. The entire Western world lined-up against the government of South Africa and imposed harsh economic sanctions against that nation, until they ended the practice of Apartheid.

Are not the lives of mothers and daughters at least as important?

[Maggyie]

Interestingly the newspaper "The Gaza Gajeera" does not appear to actually exist except in reference to this article. Google turned up nothing but the "MAINTAINING FAMILY HONOR" posted over and over to forums etc. I am willing to be proved wrong if someone can source the actual article.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='bhrhrahraa' date='09 December 2009 - 10:09 PM' timestamp='1260414568' post='2017184']
First of all, the name is pathetic. I'm sorry but I don't think I can take this person seriously.
Secondly, is this person claiming to be a Muslim? If so, then his/her or whatever it is, it's beliefs do not represent the Islamic stance and therefore, this person most likely isn't a Muslim. Clearly, it's a brainwashed, unethical, profound writer and merely cannot accept Islam. If, on the other hand, it left Islam, then it's obvious why it is writing such articles: to provoke Muslims and out of rage.

It would be extremely funny if it's an apostate and it feels that way. It's typical to see such a behavior only after one leaves its own religion.
Also, there are quite a number of people who claim to be Muslims and preach false things about Islam just to gain supporters. Desperate much? If Islam was so bad, then why not leave it all together? No one's forcing anyone to remain a Muslim.

This person isn't a big deal. Just one view of a corrupted, wayward coagulated milk.

PS: Hookahs are disgusting, just like the writer itself.
[/quote]

I am sorry but I did ask for proof, not conjecture, you said 'he's' written other articles that you also have a problem with, so you would seem to know some history of this reporter. Can you provide a proof that 'he' is indeed fake?

[bhrhrahraa]

[quote name='Maggie' date='09 December 2009 - 10:10 PM' timestamp='1260414654' post='2017186']
Interestingly the newspaper "The Gaza Gajeera" does not appear to actually exist except in reference to this article. Google turned up nothing but the "MAINTAINING FAMILY HONOR" posted over and over to forums etc. I am willing to be proved wrong if someone can source the actual article.
[/quote]

I couldn't find anything on it, either. If it WAS a legit magazine/newspaper, it would surely have its own source/site etc or be cited by other sources. Sadly, this is not the case.
Seems again, like fraud despos trying to stir up some commotion.

[bhrhrahraa]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='09 December 2009 - 10:14 PM' timestamp='1260414855' post='2017187']
I am sorry but I did ask for proof, not conjecture, you said 'he's' written other articles that you also have a problem with, so you would seem to know some history of this reporter. Can you provide a proof that 'he' is indeed fake?
[/quote]

Too bad, I wrote it anyhow.

Google took me to [url="http://www.bloggernews.net/112391"]this article.[/url] Thought it was by hookah maestro. [url="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=5Wu&q=Al+Skudsi+bin+Hookah&aq=f&oq=&aqi="]Look 3rd from the bottom.[/url] By a different author though. :S

Either way, seems like this reporter wrote only one article and it's the one you or someone else posted.
If this is a legit author, do you mind finding me more articles by her or whatever it is? Unfortunately, I couldn't find any.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='bhrhrahraa' date='09 December 2009 - 10:14 PM' timestamp='1260414875' post='2017189']
I couldn't find anything on it, either. If it WAS a legit magazine/newspaper, it would surely have its own source/site etc or be cited by other sources. Sadly, this is not the case.
Seems again, like fraud despos trying to stir up some commotion.
[/quote]

Yet you have claimed to have read 'his' articles, because you stated "most of his articles deal with demonizing Islam." 'He' may very well be a fraud, however if there are indeed more articles by the reporter they would help shed light on this whole issue.

Edited December 10, 2009 by KnightofChrist

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='bhrhrahraa' date='09 December 2009 - 10:21 PM' timestamp='1260415313' post='2017196']
Too bad, I wrote it anyhow.

Google took me to [url="http://www.bloggernews.net/112391"]this article.[/url] Thought it was by hookah maestro. [url="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=5Wu&q=Al+Skudsi+bin+Hookah&aq=f&oq=&aqi="]Look 3rd from the bottom.[/url] By a different author though. :S

Either way, seems like this reporter wrote only one article and it's the one you or someone else posted.
If this is a legit author, do you mind finding me more articles by her or whatever it is? Unfortunately, I couldn't find any.
[/quote]

For the sake of the actual topic I concede this issue. The article in post [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=101099&view=findpost&p=2017185"]54[/url] is a reliable source.