To Our New Members

[extempers]

Every country and society has a standard of modesty and law.

In certain societies of the past you could walk around naked. In others, you had to abide by the law and wear specific types of clothing.

In the West, well not France, it is unlawful to be naked in public. The level of modesty affects the laws.
In Muslim countries, the level of modesty is higher and applies to both men and women (but of course we only hear about the women).

It is well within the right of Iran to put restrictions on it's people in public, but in private it is a different story.


Keep in mind, it is not only the Muslims who have laws about covering the hair. The Jewish people had their own laws and, at one point, the Christians did too. I can't speak for why Nuns don't cover their hair anymore, but at one point they did.

Go to certain areas in Israel and try to walk around without being modestly dressed by their standards, which are similar to ours, and see how the people react. It won't be good.

Even in the nativity scenes of Mary you will see her wearing a headscarf.
Lol this one kid from a Muslim country who came to visit America during Christmas saw all these nativity scenes and told his dad "Wow, look at all the Muslims!"

SubhanAllah (All Glory Belongs to God).

Edited December 12, 2009 by extempers

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='extempers' date='12 December 2009 - 06:14 PM' timestamp='1260659679' post='2019362']
Even in the nativity scenes of Mary you will see her wearing a headscarf.
Lol this one kid from a Muslim country who came to visit America during Christmas saw all these nativity scenes and told his dad "Wow, look at all the Muslims!"
[/quote]

You will find that some posters here (including the one typing this post) feel that it is a scriptural mandate (see 1 Corinthians 11) that women should cover their heads at Mass.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='extempers' date='12 December 2009 - 05:14 PM' timestamp='1260659679' post='2019362']
Every country and society has a standard of modesty and law.

In certain societies of the past you could walk around naked. In others, you had to abide by the law and wear specific types of clothing.

In the West, well not France, it is unlawful to be naked in public. The level of modesty affects the laws.
In Muslim countries, the level of modesty is higher and applies to both men and women (but of course we only hear about the women).

It is well within the right of Iran to put restrictions on it's people in public, but in private it is a different story.


Keep in mind, it is not only the Muslims who have laws about covering the hair. The Jewish people had their own laws and, at one point, the Christians did too. I can't speak for why Nuns don't cover their hair anymore, but at one point they did.

Go to certain areas in Israel and try to walk around without being modestly dressed by their standards, which are similar to ours, and see how the people react. It won't be good.

Even in the nativity scenes of Mary you will see her wearing a headscarf.
Lol this one kid from a Muslim country who came to visit America during Christmas saw all these nativity scenes and told his dad "Wow, look at all the Muslims!"

SubhanAllah (All Glory Belongs to God).
[/quote]
+J.M.J.+
interesting. thank you for your response. could you tell me what the standards of modesty are for men?

oh and you'll find a lot of us here do think that nuns/sisters should wear habits...

[extempers]

It is compulsory for men to grow a beard if one has the ability to. Different schools differ on how long.
It is compulsory for men to wear loose clothing.
It is compulsory for men to not imitate women.
It is compulsory for men to cover themselves from the naval to the knees.

That's off the top of my head.

Here's a more indepth read
http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/36891/men's%20clothing

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='extempers' date='12 December 2009 - 10:46 PM' timestamp='1260675963' post='2019498']
It is compulsory for men to grow a beard if one has the ability to. Different schools differ on how long.
[/quote]
Interesting. Sounds like the Eastern Fathers (except the compulsory part).

[Lil Red]

[quote name='extempers' date='12 December 2009 - 09:46 PM' timestamp='1260675963' post='2019498']
It is compulsory for men to grow a beard if one has the ability to. Different schools differ on how long.
It is compulsory for men to wear loose clothing.
It is compulsory for men to not imitate women.
It is compulsory for men to cover themselves from the naval to the knees.

That's off the top of my head.

Here's a more indepth read
http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/36891/men's%20clothing
[/quote]
+J.M.J.+
thank you

[Lil Red]

+J.M.J.+
what is 'zina'?

[extempers]

[quote name='Lil Red' date='13 December 2009 - 12:33 AM' timestamp='1260682400' post='2019545']
+J.M.J.+
what is 'zina'?
[/quote]

These questions are being asked on MM

http://maniacmuslim.com/forums/index.php?/topic/4732-random-islamic-questions/page__st__8205

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='extempers' date='12 December 2009 - 06:14 PM' timestamp='1260659679' post='2019362'] well not France[/quote]
Those French....

[Lil Red]

[quote name='extempers' date='12 December 2009 - 11:41 PM' timestamp='1260682877' post='2019551']
These questions are being asked on MM

http://maniacmuslim.com/forums/index.php?/topic/4732-random-islamic-questions/page__st__8205
[/quote]
+J.M.J.+
thanks for linking me to that. i was trying to read that thread, but at 550 pages, that's a little more than i have time for

[Pomak]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='13 December 2009 - 10:22 AM' timestamp='1260660125' post='2019367']
You will find that some posters here (including the one typing this post) feel that it is a scriptural mandate (see 1 Corinthians 11) that women should cover their heads at Mass.
[/quote]
Yeah we got some Muslims who only cover at the mosque/when praying, but my question is (to them and to you) doesn't God see you outside mass. I mean if its done for modesty sake you might as well do it permanently.

[Winchester]

[quote name='extempers' date='12 December 2009 - 06:14 PM' timestamp='1260659679' post='2019362']
Every country and society has a standard of modesty and law.
[/quote]
I would appreciate clothing requirements being tied directly to weight.

[misereremi]

[quote name='Pomak' date='15 December 2009 - 03:28 AM' timestamp='1260844108' post='2020750']
Yeah we got some Muslims who only cover at the mosque/when praying, but my question is (to them and to you) doesn't God see you outside mass. I mean if its done for modesty sake you might as well do it permanently.
[/quote]
Yes, God is everywhere and He sees all at all times (and we should be modest in our dress and more importantly guarded in our thoughts), but we were not mandated to wear the veil at all times.

As you know the wearing of a veil in Catholic tradition is different from its function in Islam. It is not worn for protection against men’s lust or molestation (as indicated Quran 33:59) and so we are not required to veil on every occasion when a male who is not a relative may be present.

We are instructed by St Paul (I Corinthians 11:3-10)to do it as a sign of humility (woman being 'the [b]glory[/b] of man')and reverence in the presence of Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament, and we must veil our hearts also. My two pence, I am not a scholar. There are numerous threads here on veiling for anyone interested. God bless

[elizabeth09]

I heard once on a show that a host said that the reason that God made mothers is because He can not be their all the time. When I heard this, I knew that this was not true.

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='elizabeth09' date='21 December 2009 - 08:50 PM' timestamp='1261457403' post='2024272']
I heard once on a show that a host said that the reason that God made mothers is because He can not be their all the time. When I heard this, I knew that this was not true.
[/quote]

just guessing, but that was probably a joke the host was making, not a theological hypothesis.

[elizabeth09]

Yes, but as a Roman Catholic, I believe that God is everywhere.

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='13 December 2009 - 10:22 AM' timestamp='1260660125' post='2019367']
You will find that some posters here (including the one typing this post) feel that it is a scriptural mandate (see 1 Corinthians 11) that women should cover their heads at Mass.
[/quote]
I was just reading that and it also says
[sup][/sup][quote][sup]14[/sup]Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him,
[/quote]
Jesus and disciples are usually depicted as having long hair. Mysterious???

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' date='25 December 2009 - 02:36 AM' timestamp='1261730161' post='2025845']
[sup][/sup]
Jesus and disciples are usually depicted as having long hair. Mysterious???
[/quote]
You have to look at that in context too. If I'm not mistaken, the norm was longer than we're used to for men 2000 years ago. "Long" hair, by their standards, was significantly longer than what we consider long today.

At least that's what I seem to recall.

[Antigonos]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='25 December 2009 - 10:03 PM' timestamp='1261767780' post='2025949']
You have to look at that in context too. If I'm not mistaken, the norm was longer than we're used to for men 2000 years ago. "Long" hair, by their standards, was significantly longer than what we consider long today.

At least that's what I seem to recall.
[/quote]

Well, it certainly wasn't for the Romans or the Greeks, judging by the extant sculpture. We don't know about the Jews, because they eschewed the pictorial arts. However, there are Biblical strictures about "cutting the hair at the corners of the head", wherever the "corners" are supposed to be, and shaving, and tonsuring the top of the head. Today's ultra-Orthodox often keep the hair very short indeed, except for earlocks, and do not trim their beards at all.

[jeffpugh]

I think women had [i]long [/i]hair too...