The Church Dogmatically Teaches The Muslims Worship The One True God

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='16 December 2009 - 12:05 PM' timestamp='1260990310' post='2021886']
This doesn't contradict what I've stated[/quote]
I agree.

[quote name='hot stuff' date='16 December 2009 - 12:05 PM' timestamp='1260990310' post='2021886']
Also it can be said that I as a Catholic (and all Catholics) am free to fully accept the teachings of Lumen Gentium.
[/quote]
Yes, you are free to do that, just as I - after spending many years studying early Muslim texts - am free to reject the opinion of the bishops assembled at Vatican II on that issue.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Winchester' date='16 December 2009 - 11:54 AM' timestamp='1260989651' post='2021872']
The mohammedan religion is not part of the economy of salvation.
[/quote]
I agree.

[Winchester]

In general, the only thing we have to agree to is that the Catholic Church is the one true church.

[Jaime]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='16 December 2009 - 02:09 PM' timestamp='1260990550' post='2021891']
I agree.


Yes, you are free to do that, just as I - after spending many years studying early Muslim texts - am free to reject the opinion of the bishops assembled at Vatican II on that issue.
[/quote]


the problem is the inference of the thread. "If its not taught dogmatically, its not true". That's the message some folks can take away from it. TBH I thought Lumen Gentium was considered dogmatic and was corrected on that. But I am content with the document being indefectible and being taught by the Church is sufficient for me to accept its teaching.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Winchester' date='16 December 2009 - 12:10 PM' timestamp='1260990650' post='2021894']
In general, the only thing we have to agree to is that the Catholic Church is the one true church.
[/quote]
As. St. Augustine said: "I should not believe the gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church" ([url="http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1405.htm"]Contra epistolam Manichaei[/url], 5:6).

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='16 December 2009 - 12:15 PM' timestamp='1260990910' post='2021898']
the problem is the inference of the thread. "If its not taught dogmatically, its not true". That's the message some folks can take away from it. TBH I thought Lumen Gentium was considered dogmatic and was corrected on that. But I am content with the document being indefectible and being taught by the Church is sufficient for me to accept its teaching.
[/quote]
I would agree with you, that is, if the Muslim religion were included as part of the deposit of faith, but alas, it is not. Therefore, the most the Magisterium can do with authority in relation to Islam is warn the faithful against the errors contained in Muslim source texts.

Edited December 16, 2009 by Apotheoun

[mortify]

[quote name='goldenchild17' date='16 December 2009 - 01:38 PM' timestamp='1260988690' post='2021847']
"Thomas, however, rightly distinguishes two kinds of religious practices: there are those which go against reason and against God insofar as he can be recognized through nature and through the natural powers of the soul, e.g., the worship of idols, etc. Others are contrary to the Christian religion and to its commands not because they are evil in themselves or contrary to reason as, for example, the practices of Jews and even many of the customs of [b]Mohammedans[/b] and such unbelievers who [b]believe in one true God[/b]."

Suarez, Tract. de Fide Disp. 18 Sect. III
[/quote]

Muhammad got it right when he rejected the polytheism of his countrymen and acknowledged the One, Supreme, and Transcendent Deity. The Quran is full of injunctions to reflect over creation and allow one's reason to make the case against polytheism, thus proving St Paul's famous words in the Epistle to the Romans and the reasoning of the theologians above. Islam is composed of natural religion, native customs of the Arab peninsula, and Judeo-Christian elements, and so it is closer to the Truth than many other religions. I think it is true to say that Muslims believe in the True God, but know Him deficiently, and that they worship this God, though their worship is not pleasing to Him in-and-of itself. To the sincere though deceived soul who takes steps towards God in the only way they know how, through this chimera of a religion, it may very well be that God is pleased by their *desire*, and will lead them ever closer to the complete Truth.

Edited December 17, 2009 by mortify

[Seven77]

[quote name='mortify' date='16 December 2009 - 09:43 PM' timestamp='1261017786' post='2022096']
Muhammad got it right when he rejected the polytheism of his countrymen and acknowledged the One, Supreme, and Transcendent Deity. The Quran is full of injunctions to reflect over creation and allow one's reason to make the case against polytheism, thus proving St Paul's famous words in the Epistle to the Romans and the reasoning of the theologians above. Islam is composed of natural religion, native customs of the Arab peninsula, and Judeo-Christian elements, and so it is closer to the Truth than many other religions. I think it is true to say that Muslims believe in the True God, but know Him deficiently, and that they worship this God, though their worship is not pleasing to Him in-and-of itself. To the sincere though deceived soul who takes steps towards God in the only way they know how, through this chimera of a religion, it may very well be that God is pleased by their *desire*, and will lead them ever closer to the complete Truth.
[/quote]

+1

[Winchester]

I only started this thread to attack someone, not to illuminate. I did this because I am a bastage.


Out of my cold dead hands.