"haiti Made A Pact With Devil"

[CatherineM]

I think Ole Pat is getting himself confused with the plot from "beaver dam Yankees"

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='14 January 2010 - 03:26 AM' timestamp='1263457596' post='2036854']
here is an short, awesome video of Keith Olbermann calling out Pat robertson and Rush Limbaugh(did you hear what hes been saying??) on their comments on haiti.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPoWOw8Jm5w&feature=player_embedded
very very spot on.
[/quote]

I wouldn't trust Keith Olbermann to tell me the sky is blue.

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='Hassan' date='14 January 2010 - 10:30 AM' timestamp='1263483013' post='2036925']
What a stupid thing for him to say. Believing that an all-powerful (does omnipotence include the power to stop earthquakes? Or perhaps make worlds that aren't prone to earthquakes in the first place?) and all-loving just God stood by twiddling His sacred thumbs while Haiti was smashed to the ground makes much more sense.
[/quote]
...maybe the twiddling is what caused the earthquakes in the first place?

but in all seriousness...without God, not even a leaf falls to the ground...He allowed this disaster, because HE is omnipotent. Does He wish for His children to suffer? Was this a punishment? Or just another way for human beings to meet their Maker? How can we humans even comprehend the mind of God? I can tell you that God has a plan for each individual. As horrific as death is, we are all born to live for God in eternity for all time. You nor I know exactly how God plans for us to die. You can be beheaded in a traffic accident, and I may just drop dead of a heartattack. Either way...God is not twiddling His thumbs watching us drop like flies. He takes an active part in our living and dying. It is all part of His will for our lives. It is foolishness to view this disaster as if God had no part in it and to criticize His justice and love just because your puny human mind cannot comprehend the Divine Plan. Suffering is a part of the plan, whether you like it or not.

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='kamiller42' date='14 January 2010 - 08:50 AM' timestamp='1263487824' post='2036974']
Keith is an expert on pain and crassness. He should be able to identify his kind.

I heard Rush's show. I didn't hear anything offensive or insensitive about Haiti. What did you hear on his show that was insensitive?
[/quote]
[font="Verdana"][size="2"]
did you actually watch that video? i think not.

"I'm just gonna tell you, if I was named envoy to Haiti, I'd quitgovernment. Envoy to Haiti? You can't even pick up a prostitute downthere without genuine fear of AIDS."

"We've already donated to Haiti. It's called the U.S. income tax."

"wehave another crisis simply too good to waste. This will play rightinto Obama's hands. He's humanitarian, compassionate. They'll use thisto burnish their, shall we say, "credibility" with the black community-- in the both light-skinned and dark-skinned black community in thiscountry. "

full transcript of one show here
[url="http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_011310/content/01125106.guest.html"]http://www.rushlimba...5106.guest.html[/url]


[/size][/font][quote name='KnightofChrist' date='14 January 2010 - 08:55 AM' timestamp='1263488136' post='2036978']
I wouldn't trust Keith Olbermann to tell me the sky is blue.
[/quote]

well, he is calling a spade a spade. do you disagree with him in that video?

Edited January 14, 2010 by Jesus_lol

[Marie-Therese]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='14 January 2010 - 11:29 AM' timestamp='1263486569' post='2036959']
In his own dumb way Pat Robertson does point out a very real and very large problem in Haiti and that is the worship of devils. I'm also sadden to see this seems to be the only thread devoted to the souls of Haiti.
[/quote]
Knight, there is a pinned prayer thread at the top of the page.

[LSW]

I think a "my comments were taken out of context" statement will be coming soon from Pat.

[kamiller42]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='14 January 2010 - 12:09 PM' timestamp='1263488983' post='2036994']
[font="Verdana"][size="2"]
did you actually watch that video? i think not.[/quote]
I asked what you heard on the show, not Keith.

[quote]"I'm just gonna tell you, if I was named envoy to Haiti, I'd quitgovernment. Envoy to Haiti? You can't even pick up a prostitute downthere without genuine fear of AIDS."[/quote]
You heard this on yesterday's show? In the words of Joe Wilson, "You lie!" That is a clip from May 20, 2009. How about coming back to 2010? And it was a commentary that spoke more about the perverted character of Bill Clinton as part of a Haiti envoy than the Haitians.

[quote]"We've already donated to Haiti. It's called the U.S. income tax."[/quote]
This quote is related to two things:
1) The White House soliciting Haiti donations through their site. Its commentary on Obama wanting to pull more money from your pockets and whether you can really trust him with it.
2) Pouring money to the corrupt government (dictatorship) of Haiti for decades has not improved the lives of Haitians. Giving more money to this government is not going to improve the lives of Haitians on the streets. Our government should not give their government the aid. Find another measurably effective way to help Haiti.

[quote]"wehave another crisis simply too good to waste. This will play rightinto Obama's hands. He's humanitarian, compassionate. They'll use thisto burnish their, shall we say, "credibility" with the black community-- in the both light-skinned and dark-skinned black community in thiscountry. "[/quote]
Rush is referencing two events in this point.
1) Rahm Emanuel, Obama's right hand man, stated you should never waste a crisis. Here's is what Rahm said:
"You never want a serious crisis to go to waste. What i mean by that is it's an opportunity to do things that you think you could not do before. This is an opportunity." Keith should be criticizing Rahm, not Rush, but he won't of course.
2) The references to getting good with the black community and light and dark skin members is a reference to Obama's acceptance of Harry Reid's comments. No need to throw Harry under the bus. When a democrat makes racist comments, it's "inartful."

[quote]full transcript of one show here
[url="http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_011310/content/01125106.guest.html"]http://www.rushlimba...5106.guest.html[/url][/quote]
Transcripts are nice, but they do sometimes miss context and tone of a conversation.

For the record, that is hardly a transcript of a full show. The show is 3 hours long. That transcript covers 1 segment. If you listened to the show and not distortion echo chambers, you would know that.

[quote]well, he is calling a spade a spade. do you disagree with him in that video?[/quote]
It doesn't matter what the king of hate, Keith Olberman, says, I will disagree with it. At a minimum, it will be for his spiteful delivery method. "The sun is hot. How dare the sun force its heat on us. You, sir, are an embarrassment to our galaxy. The sun is the worst person of the year! Our world would better off without you SIR."

[kamiller42]

Rush is addressing your comments right now exactly as I wrote them. I must have ESP. Listen at the 2.5 hour mark and on. Edited January 14, 2010 by kamiller42

[Starets]

It is the same sort of malarkey that I have heard before in the context of other earthquakes. Remember the Northridge Quake in the 90's? There were some people on a BBS network I was on at the time that were arguing that that was God's punishment on the porn industry. Apparently, the epicenter (sp?) of that quake was almost directly beneath several porn producion houses.

[Skinzo]

One thing that bothers me is that some of us wonder if major natural disasters are God's punishments. I've done it myself, though not this time. It makes me feel bad when I consider that if we have a bumper crop of wheat or when we had low unemployment or nice weather or whatever how many of us thank God for the blessing? Do we remember to attribute the GOOD things to Him when they happen?

S.

[KnightofChrist]

Natural disasters, and/or there negative and harmful effects on human life are God's chastisements for Original Sin, and some are for other great sins.

[MC IMaGiNaZUN]

I'm not even going to begin to answer "WHY?"
All I know is that we have a candidate in our Order from Haiti. I met a student sister for a congregation from Haiti, who was madly in love with Jesus.
and LAURYN HILL is from Haiti, if it wasn't for her, I wouldn't have come back to the Church.
As far as I can tell, everyone I have ever met from Haiti is explicitly devoted to Jesus.
prayers.

SHALOM

[Seven77]

[quote name='MC IMaGiNaZUN' date='14 January 2010 - 07:34 PM' timestamp='1263515665' post='2037269']
I'm not even going to begin to answer "WHY?"
All I know is that we have a candidate in our Order from Haiti. I met a student sister for a congregation from Haiti, who was madly in love with Jesus.
and LAURYN HILL is from Haiti, if it wasn't for her, I wouldn't have come back to the Church.
As far as I can tell, everyone I have ever met from Haiti is explicitly devoted to Jesus.
prayers.

SHALOM
[/quote]

actuality Lauryn Hill is not Haitian.

[cappie]

This is not only bad theology, but it is irresponsible. I know that there are many good people who watch Pat Robertson and follow his teachings, but I would like to respond from an orthodox Christian - and Catholic - perspective on the situation, not only because falsehoods should be corrected, but because there are many people who are enraged by his comments, both Christian and non-Christian.

1 - The devil is very real, but he does not have unlimited power over the world.
The Catechism says:

''The power of Satan is, nonetheless, only finite. He is only a creature, powerful from the fact that he is pure spirit, but still a creature. He cannot prevent the building up of God's reign" (CCC, 395).

The devil is a fallen angel and a powerful spiritual being. His hatred of God and good things is what drives him to seek out the fall of humans and their eternal suffering in hell. His power is demonstrated in the Sacred Scriptures when we see demonic possession of humans (e.g. Mk 1:21-28; Lk 4:31-37; Mt 8: 32-33; etc.), the tempting of Christ (Matt 4) as well as many other references of demonic activity. The primary way he manifests his power is through temptation of humans to sin. We have all experienced temptations and the struggle that goes along with it, though not all are from demons - some are from our own fallen nature and passions. To deny that the devil has power is to allow him a victory over us. Charles Baudelaire once said that the devil's greatest trick was to convince us that he does not exist. Yet, his power is not unlimited and he cannot force us to hell, we have to choose it.

One of several extraordinary way the devil works is through what is sometimes called "local infestation" (others are through possession and personal infestation). This is when the devil has direct contact with non-human parts of the created world such as plants, animals, or inanimate objects. This can lead to physical harm, but it is not the cause of natural disasters, but local (think relatively small) areas or objects. When the final tribulation of the earth comes, the devil will be released to have a much broader ability to work in the created world (Rev 20).

2 - Natural Disasters are a Result of Original Sin and a Fallen World
We live in a world that is fallen. This means that the original plan of unity and peace has been broken. All of creation is crying out for redemption (Rom 8:19-22) and awaits the coming of Christ to end all suffering, sin, brokenness, death, and disunity. All of the world suffers because of the fall and thus we have inexplainable tragedies that happen, like this earthquake.

Problems arise when we try to assign an actor behind the tragedy as the cause to the tragedy. Some say God uses natural disasters to chastise his people and bring them to repentance. While there is biblical precedence to such an act, we cannot know for certain God has actively willed anything, unless He directly tells us so. Some others say the devil caused a natural disaster as punishment for their selling out to him, as is the case with Robertson here. The problem is that we do not know, in this life, the meaning behind many of the things that happen in our world. God allows them all, and for good reason, but may not reveal these reasons to us. What we can do is rest our hopes on God's almighty providence - He knows what is best for us.
From the Catechism:

"The witness of Scripture is unanimous that the solicitude of divine providence is concrete and immediate; God cares for all, from the least things to the great events of the world and its history. The sacred books powerfully affirm God's absolute sovereignty over the course of events: "Our God is in the heavens; he does whatever he pleases."162 And so it is with Christ, "who opens and no one shall shut, who shuts and no one opens".163 As the book of Proverbs states: "Many are the plans in the mind of a man, but it is the purpose of the LORD that will be established." (CCC 303).

To try and find meaning to such disasters is to try and explain the mind of God.

3 - Pat Robertson Needs a History Lesson.
He made several errors. Napoleon III had nothing to do with the formation of Haiti. The Haitians revolted the same time the French did, during Napoleon I's reign. Also, there are many other details that he gets wrong and then he cites a legend, with no basis in real history, as the cause.

Conclusion.
Pat Robertson has bad theology, little common sense, and is making a presumption that he knows the mind of God, all based on bad history, legend and innuendo.

Don't listen to him. Listen to the one who was guaranteed not to lead us into error - Holy Mother Church guided by the Holy Spirit.

Pray for Haiti.
Pray for Pat Robertson.
Send money or assist in other ways if you can.

[url="http://marysaggies.blogspot.com/"]http://marysaggies.blogspot.com/[/url]

[Happy_Catholic]

Wow, and I thought these comments were bad:

http://www.lifenews.com/int1434.html

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='kamiller42' date='14 January 2010 - 10:31 AM' timestamp='1263493887' post='2037047']
You heard this on yesterday's show? In the words of Joe Wilson, "You lie!" That is a clip from May 20, 2009. How about coming back to 2010? And it was a commentary that spoke more about the perverted character of Bill Clinton as part of a Haiti envoy than the Haitians.
[/quote]
ok you got me, i was looking for a transcript of the show, found that quote and assumed it was from it.

[quote]
This quote is related to two things:
1) The White House soliciting Haiti donations through their site. Its commentary on Obama wanting to pull more money from your pockets and whether you can really trust him with it.
2) Pouring money to the corrupt government (dictatorship) of Haiti for decades has not improved the lives of Haitians. Giving more money to this government is not going to improve the lives of Haitians on the streets. Our government should not give their government the aid. Find another measurably effective way to help Haiti.


Rush is referencing two events in this point.
1) Rahm Emanuel, Obama's right hand man, stated you should never waste a crisis. Here's is what Rahm said:
"You never want a serious crisis to go to waste. What i mean by that is it's an opportunity to do things that you think you could not do before. This is an opportunity." Keith should be criticizing Rahm, not Rush, but he won't of course.
2) The references to getting good with the black community and light and dark skin members is a reference to Obama's acceptance of Harry Reid's comments. No need to throw Harry under the bus. When a democrat makes racist comments, it's "inartful."
[/quote]

somehow i doubt Rush is making subtle political statements here. its much easier to explain that by stupidity, than cleverness in his case, especially given the average demographic his show is geared to "dey tuk ar jerbs!"

with enough work, any stupid statement can be passed off as a subtle dig/ironic satire of an older quote from someone not mentioned. or you can take things as he said.

[quote]
Transcripts are nice, but they do sometimes miss context and tone of a conversation.

For the record, that is hardly a transcript of a full show. The show is 3 hours long. That transcript covers 1 segment. If you listened to the show and not distortion echo chambers, you would know that.
[/quote]

i may not like Rush at all, but i hardly care enough about him to read endless transcriptions of his show, its called looking up relevant material. if im doing a peice on Nero, i look up Nero, most people dont complain if i neglect to pore over the history of the entire roman empire first for negating context.

[quote]
It doesn't matter what the king of hate, Keith Olberman, says, I will disagree with it. At a minimum, it will be for his spiteful delivery method. "The sun is hot. How dare the sun force its heat on us. You, sir, are an embarrassment to our galaxy. The sun is the worst person of the year! Our world would better off without you SIR."
[/quote]

it doesnt matter which mouth the truth comes from. I am not so arrogant to say i would never agree with Rush Limbaugh on any topic ever, no matter his opinion on it, simply because i dont like him.

[quote name='kamiller42' date='14 January 2010 - 11:31 AM' timestamp='1263497499' post='2037097']
Rush is addressing your comments right now exactly as I wrote them. I must have ESP. Listen at the 2.5 hour mark and on.
[/quote]
umm wanna provide a link?
whether he and his team of helpers can hastily explain away his statements after the fact or not, it remains that he shouldnt have been dumb or crass enough to say them in the first place.

Edited January 15, 2010 by Jesus_lol