New Eastern Catholic Monastery

[laetitia crucis]

[quote name='brightsadness' date='19 January 2010 - 05:52 PM' timestamp='1263937970' post='2040314']
Yes, I am a Byzantine Rite Catholic as is my family. My spirituality and devotion is Eastern and I would miss the liturgical forms and some other cultural stuff. [b]However the Lord does get to ask that.[/b]
[/quote]

That's very good point!

Hmmm... I have a feeling I just might know which order you're talking about with the Eastern Rite missions. Be assured of my prayers for you and your discernment.

[HisChild]

[quote name='laetitia crucis' date='19 January 2010 - 02:08 PM' timestamp='1263935321' post='2040305']
If you don't mind my asking, did you grow up in the Byzantine Rite? And if so... ...I guess I was thinking as myself in your situation, but I know I've never discerned with an Eastern Catholic order, yet I would think I might have a hard time getting used to it. Is it comparable to a N.O. English Catholic getting used to the T.L.M.?

Are there any major differences or sacrifices for you as a Byzantine Catholic, if you were to enter a Latin Rite order?
[/quote]

May I add my $.02? I cannot give as detailed of a witness as brightsadness for I'm Roman Catholic but I have attended Orthodox and Byzantine Catholic Liturgies.

I'd attended Byzantine Liturgies for several months before moving out of town to where there are none. I have to admit that were there any Eastern Rite Catholic churches near me, I'd be going there and have started looking into jobs elsewhere to move where I'd be able to attend a Byzantine parish.

When I step inside the church I feel I should remove my shoes for I believe I am on holy ground. I think that's one of the differences between the rites. Whereas many modern Catholic churches have removed the stained glass and the statuary, Eastern Rite churches still hold fast to the belief that their churches are to give witness to, or manifest, Heaven on earth and so you'll see a plethora of iconography and murals, to give witness to the Glory of God and to surround one in the atmosphere of being in the presence of God and His Angels and Saints.

Whereas Roman Masses are brief, almost terse (can't go over that one hour mark, and some cry foul if Mass is longer than 45 minutes!), Byzantine Liturgies are more dynamic, with greater ceremony. I've been to Divine Liturgies that were longer than 90 minutes... and yet, it didn't seem that long when I looked at my watch after Liturgy.

The Liturgy is chanted and all song has meaning. I heard one monk state it this way: At a Roman Catholic Mass, you sing AT Mass. In the Byzantine tradition, we sing the Liturgy.

I've been to one parish where there was a lot of parishioner choral participation and another where there was very little, leaving the chanting to the choir. Like Roman Catholic churches, some Liturgies are in English while others will use another tongue (Greek, Russian, etc.). You'll also notice a lot more incense used during the Liturgy, which of course is in line with the 'greater ceremony' I mentioned above. The time of liturgical year will determine the chant tone to use and the longer you go to Liturgy, the more familiar each tone will be when it comes time to sing it again.

I'm not so sure I would say that it would be like someone used to the NO getting used to the EF, because depending on the parish, the Liturgy may still be in English. But the ambiance, the 'look', the degree of participation, the reverence, the length, rubrics... all are different. Even the Communion is different. Byzantine churches use leavened bread and give it to the communicant via a small spoon. You tip your head back and open your mouth (no sticking out the tongue!) to receive. While the priest murmurs a prayer while distributing there is no 'amen' at the end.

:thinking: The sign of the cross is from right-to-left. The gesture of reverence is a profound bow vs. genuflecting, and parishioners stand vs. kneeling.

With all the differences, the great similarity is that we're all Catholics with different cultural ways of praying our Liturgies. And as Catholics in good standing we can attend any of the Catholic Churches regardless of rite and still fulfill our Sunday obligations. Actually, after a few short weeks, I was feeling right at home and was rather shellshocked when returning to a Roman Rite church!

Okay, I'm sure brightsadness has already posted a response but I love love love the Byzantine Rite and wanted to chime in!

Pax.

[Tridenteen]

[quote name='brightsadness' date='19 January 2010 - 04:54 PM' timestamp='1263938044' post='2040315']
I'd rather wait until after my visits to share that.

Anya
[/quote]


JMJ
I like the Eastern practices. I am very Latin, but I love the music, vestments, worship, and icons. I can't fit all of my icons onto my littlxe shelf, I heardn somewhere that there is a way of arranging icons, or is that only in the russian orthodox church? I will be sure to pray for you and your upcoming visit.

Tridenteen

[Tridenteen]

[quote name='HisChild' date='19 January 2010 - 05:19 PM' timestamp='1263939569' post='2040321']
May I add my $.02? I cannot give as detailed of a witness as brightsadness for I'm Roman Catholic but I have attended Orthodox and Byzantine Catholic Liturgies.

I'd attended Byzantine Liturgies for several months before moving out of town to where there are none. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/sadder.gif[/img] I have to admit that were there any Eastern Rite Catholic churches near me, I'd be going there and have started looking into jobs elsewhere to move where I'd be able to attend a Byzantine parish.

When I step inside the church I feel I should remove my shoes for I believe I am on holy ground. I think that's one of the differences between the rites. Whereas many modern Catholic churches have removed the stained glass and the statuary, Eastern Rite churches still hold fast to the belief that their churches are to give witness to, or manifest, Heaven on earth and so you'll see a plethora of iconography and murals, to give witness to the Glory of God and to surround one in the atmosphere of being in the presence of God and His Angels and Saints.

Whereas Roman Masses are brief, almost terse (can't go over that one hour mark, and some cry foul if Mass is longer than 45 minutes!), Byzantine Liturgies are more dynamic, with greater ceremony. I've been to Divine Liturgies that were longer than 90 minutes... and yet, it didn't seem that long when I looked at my watch after Liturgy.

The Liturgy is chanted and all song has meaning. I heard one monk state it this way: At a Roman Catholic Mass, you sing AT Mass. In the Byzantine tradition, we sing the Liturgy.

I've been to one parish where there was a lot of parishioner choral participation and another where there was very little, leaving the chanting to the choir. Like Roman Catholic churches, some Liturgies are in English while others will use another tongue (Greek, Russian, etc.). You'll also notice a lot more incense used during the Liturgy, which of course is in line with the 'greater ceremony' I mentioned above. The time of liturgical year will determine the chant tone to use and the longer you go to Liturgy, the more familiar each tone will be when it comes time to sing it again.

I'm not so sure I would say that it would be like someone used to the NO getting used to the EF, because depending on the parish, the Liturgy may still be in English. But the ambiance, the 'look', the degree of participation, the reverence, the length, rubrics... all are different. Even the Communion is different. Byzantine churches use leavened bread and give it to the communicant via a small spoon. You tip your head back and open your mouth (no sticking out the tongue!) to receive. While the priest murmurs a prayer while distributing there is no 'amen' at the end.

:thinking: The sign of the cross is from right-to-left. The gesture of reverence is a profound bow vs. genuflecting, and parishioners stand vs. kneeling.

With all the differences, the great similarity is that we're all Catholics with different cultural ways of praying our Liturgies. And as Catholics in good standing we can attend any of the Catholic Churches regardless of rite and still fulfill our Sunday obligations. Actually, after a few short weeks, I was feeling right at home and was rather shellshocked when returning to a Roman Rite church!

Okay, I'm sure brightsadness has already posted a response but I love love love the Byzantine Rite and wanted to chime in!

Pax.
[/quote]


JMJ
You remind me of when my grandparents (English Mass) came out to our Church for Holy Week and Easter. Evidently, they find the 1 hr in the English Mass excessive...they weren't happy about spending 2 1/2 to 3 hours at church during the Holy Week Services![img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/upsidedown.gif[/img] Do Byzantines cover their heads? Also, when you make the Sign of the Cross, do you use your first three fingers?

[Tridenteen]

JMJ
Oh for pete's sake, I find this really interesting, can someone start a thread where we can discuss and compare the difference in Latin vs Byzantine Rites? No angry responses allowed!

Tridenteen

[laetitia crucis]

Thanks for that insight, HisChild -- I found it very helpful, and must admit that you have me yearning to go to Byzantine Rite Mass!

When you said, "[i]When I step inside the church I feel I should remove my shoes for I believe I am on holy ground[/i]." -- that speaks volumes to me. (Volumes!)

And of course, "[i]The Liturgy is chanted and all song has meaning.[/i]" =

*sigh* I think if I went to a Mass where EVERYTHING was beautifully chanted (with full congregational participation) I think my soul would literally leave my body. I think I'd die right then and there of happiness.

Ah, what divine music does to a person...

[laetitia crucis]

[quote name='Tridenteen' date='19 January 2010 - 06:35 PM' timestamp='1263940507' post='2040332']
JMJ
Oh for pete's sake, I find this really interesting, can someone start a thread where we can discuss and compare the difference in Latin vs Byzantine Rites? No angry responses allowed!

Tridenteen
[/quote]

It seems there have been quite a few posts comparing/contrasting the Eastern Rite vs. the Latin Rite.

Hmm.. let's see if my search results will link correctly: [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=quick_search&&&search_term=Latin+Rite+vs.+Eastern+Rite&search_sort_by=relevence&search_filter_app[forums]=1"]Latin Rite vs. Eastern Rite[/url]

Okay, worked for me!

[brightsadness]

[quote name='Tridenteen' date='19 January 2010 - 03:28 PM' timestamp='1263940123' post='2040325']
JMJ
I like the Eastern practices. I am very Latin, but I love the music, vestments, worship, and icons. I can't fit all of my icons onto my littlxe shelf, I heardn somewhere that there is a way of arranging icons, or is that only in the russian orthodox church? I will be sure to pray for you and your upcoming visit.

Tridenteen
[/quote]

Icon Corner in the eastern part of the room. Place for prayer. Can be very simple.
[img]http://bellsouthpwp.net/r/o/roseal4/Icon%20Corner%20Pictures/Icon%20Corner%20full%20view.JPG[/img]

[Tridenteen]

[quote name='brightsadness' date='20 January 2010 - 02:00 PM' timestamp='1264014010' post='2040887']
Icon Corner in the eastern part of the room. Place for prayer. Can be very simple.
[img]http://bellsouthpwp.net/r/o/roseal4/Icon%20Corner%20Pictures/Icon%20Corner%20full%20view.JPG[/img]
[/quote]


JMJ
Thank you for the beautiful photo! This is a really silly question, but none of my icons have a place to hang them on a nail. Does anyone know how you get a picture to hang on the wall without one of those nail hangers on the back? I see there is an icon of St.Nicholas, he is my mom's favorite, something about him puching Arias (sp?) in the nose at the Council of Nicea really got her[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/shield.gif[/img]

[HisChild]

[quote name='brightsadness' date='20 January 2010 - 12:00 PM' timestamp='1264014010' post='2040887']
Icon Corner in the eastern part of the room. Place for prayer. Can be very simple.
[img]http://bellsouthpwp.net/r/o/roseal4/Icon%20Corner%20Pictures/Icon%20Corner%20full%20view.JPG[/img]
[/quote]


I LOVE your icon Byzantine Cross! Isn't that taken from Mt Athos?

[brightsadness]

[quote name='HisChild' date='20 January 2010 - 06:16 PM' timestamp='1264036585' post='2041167']
I LOVE your icon Byzantine Cross! Isn't that taken from Mt Athos?
[/quote]


I'm not sure. Most Eastern Rite Catholics and Christian Orthodox have this in their homes

[brightsadness]

Imeant to post this link sooner. This is the Eastern Rite monastery I am in contact with. [url="http://basiliansisters.org/locations/loc-usm.htm"]http://basiliansisters.org/locations/loc-usm.htm[/url]

Edited January 21, 2010 by brightsadness

[Tridenteen]

JMJ
Thank you for the link. Did you say you were going on a retreat with them?

[brightsadness]

[quote name='Tridenteen' date='21 January 2010 - 04:18 PM' timestamp='1264115934' post='2041873']
JMJ
Thank you for the link. Did you say you were going on a retreat with them?
[/quote]


I have been on retreat with them. In April I'm going for a 10 day visit.[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/upsidedown.gif[/img]

They are uder the Ukrainian Rite Bishop of the Eparchy of Stamford, Bishop Chomsky, OSBM. In this country the Basillians have a Byzantine/ Ruthenian Province and a Ukranian Catholic Rite province. The new monastery is under the Byzantine Rite Bishop. Just to keep it simple.[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Edited January 23, 2010 by brightsadness

[Indwelling Trinity]

My Dear Friends I hug you all for this topic!

I am finding this topic not only to be interesting but also a confirmation in my heart of our Lord's leading my heart as I look to start a little community of Carmelites that would combine Carmel, Divine Mercy and both Eastern and Western Catholic liturgy. In a semi eremitical Carmelite Monastic lifestyle. A contemplative and monastic apostolic enclosed life using our gifts at the service of the church in a life of deep contemplation.

Highly Incarnational and Trinitarian it would be a synthesis of Mercy(Incarnational: in God sending His Only son as Man God to redeem us) and Unity (in that living Christs life from the cradle to the cross he dwells within us; so that where ever Jesus dwells so does the Holy Trinity for Jesus is Always in perfect unity with the Father in the spirit of Love) In my heart there need be no division between hermit and community life/ East and West/ Carmelites of the Ancient Observance and those of the Reform (OCD's) All can be seamlessly united in a spirit of Love. "Father I pray That all may be one as you are in me and I am in you." Jesus...the perfect Unity, the perfect Love.

This is not a sales pitch everyone, just an outpouring of my heart as I have begun to live this vocation i feel God calling me too.

Thank You all for what you have written. It strengthens my heart and gives me courage as i make this journey. I too participate also in Eastern Ukranian/Byzantine write at times and find the vertical dimension we seem to have lost in the NO to be especially conducive to contemplative prayer and entering into the mystery of the Eucharistic liturgy. Being body soul and mind I believe we need externals also in order to participate fully as a whole in the mystical life of God.

As His child said. We are standing on Holy Ground. How important to be aware of that. Wherever we may be called and where ever each of us may go... Let us live for Love alone!

Tenderly,

Indwelling Trinity

Edited January 24, 2010 by Indwelling Trinity

[HisChild]

I know this thread hasn't been active over the last couple weeks, but I wanted to respond to the Icon Corner comment. I just finished my own area. This is my prayer/icon corner. I haven't received my Christ the Divine Bridegroom icon yet, however.


[IMG]http://i46.tinypic.com/jp8l0w.jpg[/IMG]

I don't know how everyone else spends Lent but I tend to really go into myself and by finishing my prayer area I can truly delve more deeply into the mysteries of God during this special time of our Church's calendar.


Have a blessed and holy Great Lent, everyone!

[laetitia crucis]

[quote name='HisChild' date='11 February 2010 - 12:41 AM' timestamp='1265863274' post='2055105']
I know this thread hasn't been active over the last couple weeks, but I wanted to respond to the Icon Corner comment. I just finished my own area. This is my prayer/icon corner. I haven't received my Christ the Divine Bridegroom icon yet, however.


[IMG]http://i46.tinypic.com/jp8l0w.jpg[/IMG]

I don't know how everyone else spends Lent but I tend to really go into myself and by finishing my prayer area I can truly delve more deeply into the mysteries of God during this special time of our Church's calendar.


Have a blessed and holy Great Lent, everyone!
[/quote]


I love your prayer/icon corner, HisChild -- this has definitely inspired me to set up one in my room. I don't have as many religious articles (most of mine remained in the convent when I left), but I will try to be as creative as possible.

I am especially fond of your [b]sanctuary lamp[/b]!

Beautiful!!!

[HisChild]

[quote name='laetitia crucis' date='11 February 2010 - 06:41 AM' timestamp='1265895690' post='2055264']
I love your prayer/icon corner, HisChild -- this has definitely inspired me to set up one in my room. I don't have as many religious articles (most of mine remained in the convent when I left), but I will try to be as creative as possible.

I am especially fond of your [b]sanctuary lamp[/b]!

Beautiful!!!
[/quote]


Thank you!

The lamp was purchased at World Market. They've always got something, maybe not in red, but I've got two purple on either side of my bed in my bedroom, one large blue one in my office, and the red one. I also have two white frosted glass ones in my kitchen. Can you tell I prefer firelight to anything that comes from an outlet? LOL

Kaboodle has a ton of lanterns they've reviewed and [url="http://www.kaboodle.com/reviews/red-cathedral-lanterns"]this link[/url] shows you the ones I bought as well as others off to the right.

Then[url="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CBHVJK/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_3?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B000PCYDEW&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=187424MP8QWVN0S071AP"]this link[/url] is the best I can find now since they're sold out at World Market. Of course in the 'customers who bought this item also bought' section, you can see similar items. They're not expensive. The cross thing on the left side of the table is an iron work chandelier like stand of crosses. On the back side are three votive holders. I got it at Hobby Lobby for something like 15 or 20 and the wooden bowl that's holding the taper was on clearance there for 5 so I bought that and some sand. :-D The wall crosses I've been gathering for years.

I don't have room, but if I did I'd be putting my 3 foot St Teresa of Avila statue there. I love her. She's really beautiful and her veil and rosary are real.

I think by putting that prayer corner in my house and in my living room where it's pretty prominent, it recollects me often.

Happy pre-TGIF!

[laetitia crucis]

[quote name='HisChild' date='11 February 2010 - 10:32 AM' timestamp='1265898760' post='2055275']
Thank you!

The lamp was purchased at World Market. They've always got something, maybe not in red, but I've got two purple on either side of my bed in my bedroom, one large blue one in my office, and the red one. I also have two white frosted glass ones in my kitchen. Can you tell I prefer firelight to anything that comes from an outlet? LOL

Kaboodle has a ton of lanterns they've reviewed and [url="http://www.kaboodle.com/reviews/red-cathedral-lanterns"]this link[/url] shows you the ones I bought as well as others off to the right.

Then[url="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CBHVJK/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_3?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B000PCYDEW&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=187424MP8QWVN0S071AP"]this link[/url] is the best I can find now since they're sold out at World Market. Of course in the 'customers who bought this item also bought' section, you can see similar items. They're not expensive. The cross thing on the left side of the table is an iron work chandelier like stand of crosses. On the back side are three votive holders. I got it at Hobby Lobby for something like 15 or 20 and the wooden bowl that's holding the taper was on clearance there for 5 so I bought that and some sand. :-D The wall crosses I've been gathering for years.

I don't have room, but if I did I'd be putting my 3 foot St Teresa of Avila statue there. I love her. She's really beautiful and her veil and rosary are real.

I think by putting that prayer corner in my house and in my living room where it's pretty prominent, it recollects me often.

Happy pre-TGIF!
[/quote]


Oooooh -- thank you for all the ideas and links, HisChild! I definitely have some pondering to do!

And might I say: You have a [b]3 foot[/b] St. Teresa of Avila statue!!! -- with REAL veil and rosary! I feel like a little kid in a candy shop just imagining that!

This past summer, I got a 2+ foot tall statue of Our Lady of Fatima while I was in the Philippines (as a gift for my birthday). I had to leave her there since I didn't have any room to pack her and I was afraid she might get damaged in cargo. (I wanted her to be the "centerpiece" of my little Mary corner.) Once returning to the States I found it she cost a couple hundred dollars to ship over.

I've never had a really strong devotion to Our Lady of Fatima specifically (I'm generally a "Cause of Our Joy" and "Mother of Sorrows" kinda girl ), but upon seeing her, I loved her. To say the least, I live in hope of one day seeing her again.

Okay. Today I will begin my prayer corner!!!

[HisChild]

[quote name='laetitia crucis' date='11 February 2010 - 07:56 AM' timestamp='1265900218' post='2055282']
Oooooh -- thank you for all the ideas and links, HisChild! I definitely have some pondering to do!

And might I say: You have a [b]3 foot[/b] St. Teresa of Avila statue!!! -- with REAL veil and rosary! I feel like a little kid in a candy shop just imagining that!

This past summer, I got a 2+ foot tall statue of Our Lady of Fatima while I was in the Philippines (as a gift for my birthday). I had to leave her there since I didn't have any room to pack her and I was afraid she might get damaged in cargo. (I wanted her to be the "centerpiece" of my little Mary corner.) Once returning to the States I found it she cost a couple hundred dollars to ship over.

I've never had a really strong devotion to Our Lady of Fatima specifically (I'm generally a "Cause of Our Joy" and "Mother of Sorrows" kinda girl ), but upon seeing her, I loved her. To say the least, I live in hope of one day seeing her again.

Okay. Today I will begin my prayer corner!!!
[/quote]


Ooooh, I wish I could see OLF too! She sounds lovely.

Here's St. Teresa:
[IMG]http://i50.tinypic.com/69niwz.jpg[/IMG]

Edited February 12, 2010 by HisChild