Is Purgatory In Eternity

[Nunsense]

I am sure I could post this in Catholic Q&A and get the official answer, but I thought it might be interesting to see what people think about it as well.

If we are granted indulgences for our "time" in Purgatory, this must mean that Purgatory is not part of Eternity because isn't the concept of "eternal" basically outside of time?

I am interested in what the Church says about this of course, but also what people think. I sometimes wonder about how time passes in Purgatory - is it the same time as we use, or is it on the "eternal clock" which runs at a different speed?

Ok, scholars, grab your Aquinas and Augustine and let's hear it!

[reyb]

[quote name='nunsense' date='17 January 2010 - 11:17 PM' timestamp='1263788238' post='2039455']
I am sure I could post this in Catholic Q&A and get the official answer, but I thought it might be interesting to see what people think about it as well.

If we are granted indulgences for our "time" in Purgatory, this must mean that Purgatory is not part of Eternity because isn't the concept of "eternal" basically outside of time?

I am interested in what the Church says about this of course, but also what people think. I sometimes wonder about how time passes in Purgatory - is it the same time as we use, or is it on the "eternal clock" which runs at a different speed?

Ok, scholars, grab your Aquinas and Augustine and let's hear it!
[/quote]

I, too, will wait for an answer although I am expecting an answer something like - 'I do not know or I am not sure'.

[Jaime]

And what time zone is Purgatory in?

[aalpha1989]

Eastern. unterwegs nach den Niederlanden.

edited for grammar.

Edited January 18, 2010 by aalpha1989

[XIX]

[quote name='nunsense' date='18 January 2010 - 12:17 AM' timestamp='1263788238' post='2039455']
I am sure I could post this in Catholic Q&A and get the official answer, but I thought it might be interesting to see what people think about it as well.

If we are granted indulgences for our "time" in Purgatory, this must mean that Purgatory is not part of Eternity because isn't the concept of "eternal" basically outside of time?

I am interested in what the Church says about this of course, but also what people think. I sometimes wonder about how time passes in Purgatory - is it the same time as we use, or is it on the "eternal clock" which runs at a different speed?

Ok, scholars, grab your Aquinas and Augustine and let's hear it!
[/quote]
Furthermore, I don't think purgatory can exist outside of time or in eternity because purgatory effects change, and nothing can change in eternity. Time is needed to effect change.

[Jaime]

[quote name='XIX' date='18 January 2010 - 12:12 AM' timestamp='1263791566' post='2039494']
Furthermore, I don't think purgatory can exist outside of time or in eternity because purgatory effects change, and nothing can change in eternity. Time is needed to effect change.
[/quote]

Heaven exists outside of time. There was a war in heaven. That's a change.

[reyb]

[quote name='XIX' date='18 January 2010 - 12:12 AM' timestamp='1263791566' post='2039494']
Furthermore, I don't think purgatory can exist outside of time or in eternity because purgatory effects change, and nothing can change in eternity. Time is needed to effect change.
[/quote]

...........therefore, how long do you think you will be in purgatory?

[Saint Therese]

If I die and find myself in purgatory I'll be like, "YES!! I made it!!!!".

[Veridicus]

I'm almost positive that purgatory has time. I know I read it somewhere...

[Veridicus]

[quote name='reyb' date='18 January 2010 - 06:38 AM' timestamp='1263818335' post='2039591']
...........therefore, how long do you think you will be in purgatory?
[/quote]

I don't believe time works quite the same as it does on earth.

[reyb]

[quote name='Veridicus' date='18 January 2010 - 11:08 AM' timestamp='1263830903' post='2039655']
I don't believe time works quite the same as it does on earth.
[/quote]

....but still, there is this element of time. So, how long do you think you will be in purgatory?

[reyb]

[quote name='Saint Therese' date='18 January 2010 - 09:11 AM' timestamp='1263823885' post='2039615']
If I die and find myself in purgatory I'll be like, "YES!! I made it!!!!".
[/quote]

You can enjoy. But still, how long do you think you will be in purgatory?

[Nunsense]

I asked God if I could do my Purgatory here on Earth. Do you think that was a wise move??

[YMNolan]

[quote name='nunsense' date='19 January 2010 - 09:04 AM' timestamp='1263906256' post='2040125']
I asked God if I could do my Purgatory here on Earth. Do you think that was a wise move??
[/quote]

If that is what God has planned for you then yeah, good call!

[mommas_boy]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='18 January 2010 - 12:16 AM' timestamp='1263791774' post='2039499']
Heaven exists outside of time. There was a war in heaven. That's a change.
[/quote]

I would reply that the war in heaven is both ongoing and completed at the same time and for all eternity. For, it was Christ's sacrifice that defeated sin and death, and it is Christ's sacrifice which is offered as liturgy (which the liturgy of the Catholic Church imitates) for all eternity in heaven. Heaven is the liturgy which the liturgy of the Church joins with. This liturgy is offered for all eternity. This liturgy is the conquering force in the war.

[kafka]

Purgatory has Time, yet it is a time beyond earthly sort of Time.

Time is simply the seperation into a before and an after.

A soul in Purgatory undergoes a purification or change becoming more like Jesus Christ as well as making up for sins. At one point he is less purified, less Christ-like, and more indebted to sin than a following point, thus there is a true seperation of a before and after in Purgatory, thus a sort of Time. Yet it is closer to Heaven so the time is unlike Earthtime. Moses and the just Israelites did not have to wait literally hundreds of years for Christ to come and release them since Christ's human nature is mystically and irrevocably united to his Divine Nature which is Eternity, hence beyond all Time and Place and able to enter into Purgatory when each soul was ready and purified to meet him.

Heaven is with God who is Eternity. Eternity is beyond Time and Place, thus it is a theological opinion that once assumed into Heaven always in Heaven from its creation or beginning. One doesnt have to for a friend to die in order to be with him in Heaven.

Obviously some of this is speculative theology and not Churh doctrine.

Edited January 19, 2010 by kafka

[Groo the Wanderer]

Keep in mind that Purgatory is not necessarily a place, but more rather a state of being. It is what happens to the soul that still has lingering attachment to sin in some way, such that it is not clean and purified and thus cannot yet enter heaven. Purgatory is where/when/how the soul is cleansed or purgated of that final attachment to worldly things.

Remember also that God created time, so He exists outside of it. Heaven Purgatory hell all have a notion of time, but it is doubtless nothing like our flawed and limited human conception of time. Trying to apply the label of 'time' to the changing of events in any of these is flawed and the analogy, like all analogies, breaks down at some point.

Just remember the 4 final things: Death Judgement Heaven and hell. Purgatory is just a waypoint on the way to Heaven. Do not dwell on it, but rather keep your eyes and heart fixed on the prize - eternal joy with Christ in Heaven.

[scardella]

Purgatory is temporal.

[YMNolan]

[quote name='mommas_boy' date='19 January 2010 - 03:16 PM' timestamp='1263928615' post='2040228']
I would reply that the war in heaven is both ongoing and completed at the same time and for all eternity. For, it was Christ's sacrifice that defeated sin and death, and it is Christ's sacrifice which is offered as liturgy (which the liturgy of the Catholic Church imitates) for all eternity in heaven. Heaven is the liturgy which the liturgy of the Church joins with. This liturgy is offered for all eternity. This liturgy is the conquering force in the war.
[/quote]

What a beautiful reply. Thank you!

[reyb]

[quote name='YMNolan' date='20 January 2010 - 02:15 PM' timestamp='1264014923' post='2040902']
What a beautiful reply. Thank you!
[/quote]

Therefore, your sacrifice is a continuing sacrifice. Meaning, it is necessary for an hourly or daily or whatever sacrifices for all eternity. So that these soul in purgatory will win the battle. Is this what you mean?

Edited January 22, 2010 by reyb