What Species Was Adam & Eve?

[Guest DanielNicholas]

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Humanevolutionchart.png"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Humanevolutionchart.png[/url]

(Please look at the chart)

This is a question Im curious about!

I am going to start with the Homo Neanderthalensis. They came before us (Homo Sapiens), We did not evolve from them though, homo sapiens pursued a seperate evolutionary path.

So, Anyways, the Neanderthals that lived side by side with Homo Sapiens for a short time in Europe.

The Neanderthals had tools, religion, culture, language, even constructed musical instruments. They had a larger cranial capacity, however were slowly out-done by homo sapiens in technological achievements.

First of all, Alot of Catholics on here say religion and science go hand in hand. So does the Catholic church have an official statement regarding to what species Adam and Eve were?

Since the Neanderthals weren't humans - were they animals? So did they not have souls?

What species were Adam and Eve?

[Selah]

...why is it important? It's a story, not a historical document.

[Guest DanielNicholas]

[quote name='Selah' date='20 January 2010 - 12:27 AM' timestamp='1263907626' post='2040134']
...why is it important? [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/huh.gif[/img] It's a story, not a historical document.
[/quote]


Is it too much to ask for a religion that actually happened.

[Selah]

What are you talking about?

[Chestertonian]

If you're genuinely curious as to what the Catholic position is (and you're not just trollin'), check out this link: http://www.catholic.com/library/Adam_Eve_and_Evolution.asp

Edited January 19, 2010 by Chestertonian

[CatherineM]

I've thought about this before, and I think the first to have a soul was the first to take single mates, so maybe Ardi.

[Apotheoun]

Bajoran.

[Socrates]

Homo Sapiens.

[mommas_boy]

Adam and Eve must have been of ancestors of homo sapiens, so neanderthals are clearly out. They also must have had a spiritual soul, which I believe means intellect sufficient enough to believe in God, and will enough to be able to choose to believe in him. I question, however, whether or not the current evidence is really sufficient to prove or disprove religious beliefs of any prehistorical species.

As for Selah's comment, the Church does teach that Adam and Eve were in fact real historical people, although we don't know where or when or how their bodies came to be.

[Socrates]

[quote name='CatherineM' date='19 January 2010 - 11:02 AM' timestamp='1263916965' post='2040154']
I've thought about this before, and I think the first to have a soul was the first to take single mates, so maybe Ardi.
[/quote]
Not sure what an Ardi is, but gibbons take single mates, yet I don't consider them human beings. (So do a lot of bird species, for that matter.)
I don't think human beings change species.

[havok579257]

[quote name='DanielNicholas' date='19 January 2010 - 09:00 AM' timestamp='1263909652' post='2040137']
Is it too much to ask for a religion that actually happened.
[/quote]


is it to much to ask for someone to stop trolling?

[Jaime]

[quote name='havok579257' date='19 January 2010 - 01:00 PM' timestamp='1263924007' post='2040185']
is it to much to ask for someone to stop trolling?
[/quote]

As opposed to what? Am I missing something here? Either this is an insulting OP and I'm missing it, or its genuine and people are reading malice into it.

1. It seems like a genuine question from an atheist

B. Its the debate board so opinions in direct opposition are usually found here

iii. Just because a person is an atheist doesn't make them a troll.

[YMNolan]

Gotta be homo sapiens

[Selah]

[quote]As for Selah's comment, the Church does teach that Adam and Eve were in fact real historical people, although we don't know where or when or how their bodies came to be[/quote]

I would like to see some proof that this is official Church teaching, please.

[mommas_boy]

[quote name='Selah' date='19 January 2010 - 01:29 PM' timestamp='1263925787' post='2040203']
I would like to see some proof that this is official Church teaching, please.
[/quote]

Yes, of course.

Pope Pius XII, [i]Humani Generis[/i], paragraph #37:

[indent]
When, however, there is question of another conjectural opinion, namely polygenism, the children of the Church by no means enjoy such liberty. For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains either that after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parents of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents. Now, it is in no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the teaching authority of the Church proposed with regard to original sin which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam in which through generation is passed onto all and is in everyone as his own.
[/indent]

And the Catechism, paragraph #390:

[indent]
The account of the fall in Genesis 3 uses figurative language, but affirms a primeval event, a deed that took place at the beginning of the history of man. Revelation gives us the certainty of faith that the whole of human history is marked by the original fault freely committed by our first parents.
[/indent]

Please confer with the following article from Catholic Answers, which has imprimatur:

http://www.catholic.com/library/Adam_Eve_and_Evolution.asp

[Selah]

Thank you. I've just had people on here tell me something was church teaching, and it ended up being based solely on their own opinions.

I have to ask though: why is it important that Adam and Eve were real people? Why can it not be seen as a story, told by the ancients of how the universe came to be, and how they believe sin entered into the world?

[mommas_boy]

[quote name='Selah' date='19 January 2010 - 02:19 PM' timestamp='1263928784' post='2040231']
Thank you. I've just had people on here tell me something was church teaching, and it ended up being based solely on their own opinions.

I have to ask though: why is it important that Adam and Eve were real people? Why can it not be seen as a story, told by the ancients of how the universe came to be, and how they believe sin entered into the world?
[/quote]

Paragraph #38 of [i]Humani Generis[/i] offers this:

[indent]
38. Just as in the biological and anthropological sciences, so also in the historical sciences there are those who boldly transgress the limits and safeguards established by the Church. In a particular way must be deplored a certain too free interpretation of the historical books of the Old Testament. Those who favor this system, in order to defend their cause, wrongly refer to the Letter which was sent not long ago to the Archbishop of Paris by the Pontifical Commission on Biblical Studies.[13] This letter, in fact, clearly points out that the first eleven chapters of Genesis, although properly speaking not conforming to the historical method used by the best Greek and Latin writers or by competent authors of our time, do nevertheless pertain to history in a true sense, which however must be further studied and determined by exegetes; the same chapters, (the Letter points out), in simple and metaphorical language adapted to the mentality of a people but little cultured, both state the principal truths which are fundamental for our salvation, and also give a popular description of the origin of the human race and the chosen people. If, however, the ancient sacred writers have taken anything from popular narrations (and this may be conceded), it must never be forgotten that they did so with the help of divine inspiration, through which they were rendered immune from any error in selecting and evaluating those documents.
[/indent]

The citation for the letter mentioned is:

13. January 16, 1948: A.A.S., vol. XL, pp. 45-48.

But I have no idea how to find that. Still, I think the Pope's reasoning is sound enough.

[havok579257]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='19 January 2010 - 01:18 PM' timestamp='1263925113' post='2040197']
As opposed to what? Am I missing something here? Either this is an insulting OP and I'm missing it, or its genuine and people are reading malice into it.

1. It seems like a genuine question from an atheist

B. Its the debate board so opinions in direct opposition are usually found here

iii. Just because a person is an atheist doesn't make them a troll.
[/quote]


Go back and look at all his posts. All his posts just make insult staements about the church being wrong. He never wants to actually debate. He just wants to make a statement about how the church or bible is wrong and then start a new thread with a statement about how the church and bible are wrong... rinse and repeat.

I have no problem with debate. I have problems with people who kept starting new threads just to say they think the church and God are wrong and not actually debating in the threads they start.

All you have to do is go look at his previous posts to see he is just trying to troll. Not to mention some of the threads he is making are not even things to debate about, they are just things to say we are wrong and he is right.

[King's Rook's Pawn]

Some anthropologists talk about an event called the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_modernity#great_leap_forward"]Great Leap Forward[/url]. They say that rather suddenly, about 50,000 years ago, behavioral modernity appeared in humans, tools became much more complex, long-distance trade arose, and art appeared. This is despite the fact that human technological development had been basically static for tens of thousands years prior.

It's pure speculation on my part, but I've wondered if just maybe that wasn't the point that some previously animalistic hominids acquired souls.

[Winchester]

[quote name='DanielNicholas' date='19 January 2010 - 06:51 AM' timestamp='1263901866' post='2040107']
[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Humanevolutionchart.png"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Humanevolutionchart.png[/url]

(Please look at the chart)

This is a question Im curious about!

I am going to start with the Homo Neanderthalensis. They came before us (Homo Sapiens), We did not evolve from them though, homo sapiens pursued a seperate evolutionary path.

So, Anyways, the Neanderthals that lived side by side with Homo Sapiens for a short time in Europe.

The Neanderthals had tools, religion, culture, language, even constructed musical instruments. They had a larger cranial capacity, however were slowly out-done by homo sapiens in technological achievements.

First of all, Alot of Catholics on here say religion and science go hand in hand. So does the Catholic church have an official statement regarding to what species Adam and Eve were?

Since the Neanderthals weren't humans - were they animals? So did they not have souls?

What species were Adam and Eve?
[/quote]
Symbolism. Look it up.