Working Out - Sinful?

[mcts]

If it's for vanity, then that's wrong. If it's because you need to be healthy or strong, then that's ok.

[KeenanParkerII]

I think you guys need to relax a bit. It's just a discussion whether working out puts us in a situation where it's easier to sin. It doesn't contribute to the conversation to point out that all things [i]can[/i] contribute to sin.

[quote]is everything a sin now?[/quote]

[quote]There seem to be people in the world who think so...[/quote]

Read the original post dudes. It's about whether or not the gym environment lends itself to sin.

[quote]oh please. that isnt a problem with gyms, or meeting girls. thats a problem with yourself.[/quote]

calmmm... relaxxxx... loveeee...

[Ash Wednesday]

As someone who has gone to gyms for years, at times at those places there is, to me, what JP2 called a "neo-pagan obsession with the body" -- people working out or showing off in skimpy clothes for vanity. However that isn't the case for everyone that goes to gyms. Working out is not a sin in itself. If anything, it can be a positive aspect of someone's character as they are treating their body well. I've always worn street clothes and just minded my own business. Whether or not being around that environment causes a lot of temptation and becomes morally problematic would depend on the individual and they should just use discretion accordingly.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='KeenanParkerII' date='31 January 2010 - 04:48 PM' timestamp='1264974494' post='2048434']
I think you guys need to relax a bit. It's just a discussion whether working out puts us in a situation where it's easier to sin. It doesn't contribute to the conversation to point out that all things [i]can[/i] contribute to sin.
[/quote]

Keenan,

Those of us who are old enough to be your parents will testify that in fact it DOES contribute to the discussion, because there is a danger of scrupulosity in religion (in other words, thinking something is a sin when it isn't or may not be).

However, for your original question, I have in fact heard from a chastity speaker that weightlifting can increase the testosterone level which can increase your "urges". At the same time, the body does need some strength training for muscles. It does seem to me that when you powerlift, more testosterone is invoked to make the effort. So, as someone who has been hitting the weights long before you were born, my practical advice is that if you are truly concerned about this, either tailor your lifting workouts away from powerlifting and more to light weight/more reps, or, if you powerlift, do running or swimming after lifting (for me, it seems to tire me out or at least "bleed off" any extra testosterone).

Edited January 31, 2010 by Norseman82

[Socrates]

[quote name='KeenanParkerII' date='30 January 2010 - 11:53 PM' timestamp='1264913634' post='2048056']
Maybe not in and of itself, but typically when someone works out they spend a lot of time looking at their body. It's almost a sort of vanity. Also, in a public gym you are surrounded by members of the opposite sex who are doing the same thing. Also, when you're really pumped, there is no doubt that you get more aggressive and like.. hormonal--if you get my drifts.

So what do you think? Is working out a big opportunity for sin or not?
[/quote]
There's absolutely nothing inherently sinful in working out, though it can be abused just like anything else, of course. (At leas I hope not, as I'm a fitness buff who's worked out my entire adult life.) It can be an occasion for vanity if you spend an excessive amount of time concerned about your appearance (and I think professional competitive bodybuilding can be pretty weird and excessive), but it doesn't have to be. I don't think there's anything wrong with exercising to improve one's strength, health, and appearance. (And concern for one's appearance is not necessarily sinful, so long as it's not excessive.)

I don't find working out in gyms to be a near occasion of sin. If you're really into your workout, it won't be an issue. Yeah, there may be some women dressed less-than-modestly, but no worse than you'll see on a beach or plenty of other places. If you're there to work out, and not spend all your time ogling the ladies, it shouldn't be a problem. Unless you live your life in a cave, you'll probably always see some women who are attractive or not modestly dressed.

As for the hormonal issue, that's getting a little ridiculous, imo. There really shouldn't be an issue, so long as the aggressiveness isn't the result of steroids or other dubious substances. Are we morally required to keep our testosterone levels as low as possible? And extra energy and "aggressiveness" isn't sinful in itself. Personally, working out at the gym has never caused me to commit acts of violence. In fact, a workout can be a positive way of burning off physical energy and relieving stress which might otherwise go into something less positive.

Many people today whose work does not involve regular heavy physical labor don't get enough exercise to keep their bodies healthy. Working out in gyms and such for many people today is the only practical way to keep physically healthy. We weren't made to be couch potatoes. For most of human history, most people had to engage in regular strenuous physical activity, whether it was swinging a sword, working the fields, or building things without the benefit of power machinery. Today, many people work in front of computer monitors, and won't get healthy exercise without pumping iron in the gym.
There's certainly nothing in the Catholic Faith which requires us to be weak and flabby.

[Socrates]

[quote name='BG45' date='31 January 2010 - 01:17 PM' timestamp='1264961828' post='2048286']
Off the top of my head, if there's a medical reason for a Christian to be overweight, I would consider it to be entirely justified.

Of course, that said...our body is a temple, therefore one must also ponder how a Christian can justify other sins:
A) Lust and chastity
B) Lack of exercise of willpower as you posted in C.
C) The use of caffeine (polluting one's body with a drug)
D) Overuse of alcohol
E) Drug addictions
F) Etc.

Being overweight is just a simple to identify thing that's more difficult to hide than almost anything else involving the body.
[/quote]


[quote name='southern california guy' date='31 January 2010 - 01:27 PM' timestamp='1264962439' post='2048298']
The use of caffeine?? [b]NO!!!![/b] I can do without alcohol, but I live for caffeine!!! (You're not secretly LDS are you?? )
[/quote]
Use of caffeine isn't sinful, so long as its not excessive (the whole moderation-in-all-things principle). In fact, studies have shown a certain amount of caffeine is beneficial and increases athletic performance.
Just as drinking is not sinful, as long it's not to excess.

The idea that caffeine is sinful is Mormon, not Catholic.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Norseman82' date='31 January 2010 - 05:15 PM' timestamp='1264976102' post='2048472']
Keenan,

Those of us who are old enough to be your parents will testify that in fact it DOES contribute to the discussion, because there is a danger of scrupulosity in religion (in other words, thinking something is a sin when it isn't or may not be).

However, for your original question, I have in fact heard from a chastity speaker that weightlifting can increase the testosterone level which can increase your "urges". At the same time, the body does need some strength training for muscles. It does seem to me that when you powerlift, more testosterone is invoked to make the effort. So, as someone who has been hitting the weights long before you were born, my practical advice is that if you are truly concerned about this, either tailor your lifting workouts away from powerlifting and more to light weight/more reps, or, if you powerlift, do running or swimming after lifting (for me, it seems to tire me out or at least "bleed off" any extra testosterone).
[/quote]
There's nothing inherently sinful with naturally elevated testosterone. Testosterone is in itself a good thing for men.
So there's no moral issue unless you're doing this for specifically immoral purposes, or if you really, truly can't control yourself.
I think it's much better to focus on self-control and cultivating moral habits and mindset, rather than on avoiding healthy exercise lest one's testosterone increases.
Lifting weights will not make you more or less sinful, and avoiding exercise won't make you any more virtuous. (In fact, I'd say spending hours in front of a a computer and being a couch potato will probably be more likely to lead to sin than hitting the weight pile.)

[Luthien]

So doing heavy lifting as say a part of your job would be considered a near occasion of sin because it would be like lifting weights? LOL

[Socrates]

Here's [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=36085&st=0&p=644883&fromsearch=1&#entry644883"]a blast from the past on the topic[/url].

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='KeenanParkerII' date='31 January 2010 - 01:20 AM' timestamp='1264915218' post='2048072']
Okay, assume this applies to people going to busy gyms at busy times. And I don't buy the "if you're in there to increase performance you don't pay attention to yourself" argument. I've been performance training since grade 8.
[/quote]
Speak only for yourself in this regard please. As soon as the temp gets up to about 25 degrees and the ice starts to melt neither of my sons will see the inside of a gym until next winters freeze, so they are definitely not paying attention to how they look in front of other people. #1 son bikes about 1-200 miles a week and the #2 runs about 50, both solitary sports. Not everyone is vain KP. , the gym can simply be a means to an end.

[KeenanParkerII]

It seems everyone is responding to some idea that working out is inherently sinful, which wasn't the original post. ^_- But such are conversations.

[quote]Not everyone is vain KP[/quote]

That hurt a little, but not so much that I'll stick my tongue out at you.

[BG45]

[quote name='Socrates' date='31 January 2010 - 09:18 PM' timestamp='1264987098' post='2048589']
The idea that caffeine is sinful is Mormon, not Catholic.
[/quote]

Indeed it is, but fortunately I never said that it was inherently sinful like Mormons do.

I was making an effort to show how strange it was to say that eating itself seemed to be an opportunity for sin. Anything we place in our bodies, or excise from it, have an opportunity to bring us into sin depending on the level of excess that we take it to.

Edited February 1, 2010 by BG45

[tinytherese]

I agree that a lot of people seem to be missing what KP is getting at. I think that we all know by now that yes, working out in and of itself is not sinful and that yes, too much of anything but holiness is a bad thing. He seems to be asking for tips on how to avoid sin while working out in a gymn. (I am open for correction if this is not the case.)

Going into a gymn to work out without playing into this worship of the body that JPII speaks of is just fine. One could even serve as a humble example to those who really are there because of vanity. As far as dealing with testosterone levels rising, keep in mind that you can not only work out and train your body, but also your mind. As I've heard it put before, you have to be determined and if you control your head then you can train yourself in purity. I suggest that after working out that you pray for purity and take time to cool off--both literally and metaphorically. You could even try praying as you work out. I know that women are not known for dressing modestly in a gymn (or other places,) but why don't you try looking into their eyes when you see them, that way, you might be able to see their humanity. Then look away and pray for them. (This is something I read in Christian Courtship in an Oversexed World: A Guide for Catholics.)

[KeenanParkerII]

[quote]I agree that a lot of people seem to be missing what KP is getting at. I think that we all know by now that yes, working out in and of itself is not sinful and that yes, too much of anything but holiness is a bad thing. He seems to be asking for tips on how to avoid sin while working out in a gymn. (I am open for correction if this is not the case.)

Going into a gymn to work out without playing into this worship of the body that JPII speaks of is just fine. One could even serve as a humble example to those who really are there because of vanity. As far as dealing with testosterone levels rising, keep in mind that you can not only work out and train your body, but also your mind. As I've heard it put before, you have to be determined and if you control your head then you can train yourself in purity. I suggest that after working out that you pray for purity and take time to cool off--both literally and metaphorically. You could even try praying as you work out. I know that women are not known for dressing modestly in a gymn (or other places,) but why don't you try looking into their eyes when you see them, that way, you might be able to see their humanity. Then look away and pray for them. (This is something I read in Christian Courtship in an Oversexed World: A Guide for Catholics.)[/quote]

Those are some really good common sense ideas I didn't think of. I'm definitely gonna try praying while working out. I definitely try to keep guard over my eyes and my thoughts in the gym, but it's definitely a lot harder than say, walking around campus or something. Thnx Therese x)

[havok579257]

women are dressed just as modestly at the gym as they are at school, the beach or anywhere. women wear short shorts in public and tight fitting clothes in public, same as the gym. if someone is worried about the way women dress at the gym, then they should be worried when they open their front door, because there is not much different then what you will see on the streets.