vee Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 I read a quote about religious life but dont remember it exactly or who said it, maybe John of the Cross, so Im hoping someone will recognize it. What I remember of the quote is this. "You did not seek to enter the monastery as a comfortable life but rather by the people there to be ground and polished into a fine stone ready for heaven."
Nunsense Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 The Counsels of St John of the Cross 3. To practice the second counsel, which concerns mortification, and profit by it, you should engrave this truth on your heart. And it is that you have not come to the monastery for any other reason than to be worked and tried in virtue; you are like the stone that must be chiseled and fashioned before being set in the building. Thus you should understand that those who are in the monastery are craftsmen placed there by God to mortify you by working and chiseling at you. Some will chisel with words, telling you what you would rather not hear; others by deed, doing against you what you would rather not endure; others by their temperament, being in their person and in their actions a bother and annoyance to you; and others by their thoughts, neither esteeming nor feeling love for you. You ought to suffer these mortifications and annoyances with inner patience, being silent for love of God and understanding that you did not enter the religious life for any other reason than for others to work you in this way, and so you become worthy of heaven. If this was not your reason for entering the religious state, you should not have done so, but should have remained in the world to seek your comfort, honor, reputation, and ease.
Indwelling Trinity Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 [quote name='vee8' date='08 February 2010 - 10:57 PM' timestamp='1265684234' post='2053820'] Thank you thats exactly it! [/quote] It is part of the precautions and maxims of OHF St John of the Cross given to the nuns. Tenderly, Indwelling Trinity
Nunsense Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Indwelling Trinity' date='09 February 2010 - 02:20 PM' timestamp='1265685639' post='2053829'] It is part of the precautions and maxims of OHF St John of the Cross given to the nuns. Tenderly, Indwelling Trinity [/quote] Actually Indwelling Trinity, it isn't from the Precautions, it is from the Counsels To A Religious On How To Reach Perfection. He does say something very similar in the Precautions for the nuns in Beas, in the section called Against Oneself and the Shrewdness of Sensuality. There are three precautions in this section and the first one is... [i]The first precaution 15. The first precaution is to understand that you have come to the monastery so that all may fashion you and try you. Thus, to free yourself from the imperfections and disturbances that can be engendered by the mannerisms and attitudes of the religious and draw profit from every occurrence, you should think that all in the community are artisans -- as indeed they are -- present there in order to prove you; that some will fashion you with words, others by deeds, and others with thoughts against you; and that in all this you must be submissive as is the statue to the craftsman who molds it, to the artist who paints it, and to the gilder who embellishes it. If you fail to observe this precaution, you will not know how to overcome your sensuality and feelings, nor will you get along well in the community with the religious or attain holy peace or free yourself from many stumbling blocks and evils.[/i] Edited February 9, 2010 by nunsense
Indwelling Trinity Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 [quote name='nunsense' date='08 February 2010 - 11:41 PM' timestamp='1265686907' post='2053852'] Actually Indwelling Trinity, it isn't from the Precautions, it is from the Counsels To A Religious On How To Reach Perfection. He does say something very similar in the Precautions for the nuns in Beas, in the section called Against Oneself and the Shrewdness of Sensuality. There are three precautions in this section and the first one is... [i]The first precaution 15. The first precaution is to understand that you have come to the monastery so that all may fashion you and try you. Thus, to free yourself from the imperfections and disturbances that can be engendered by the mannerisms and attitudes of the religious and draw profit from every occurrence, you should think that all in the community are artisans -- as indeed they are -- present there in order to prove you; that some will fashion you with words, others by deeds, and others with thoughts against you; and that in all this you must be submissive as is the statue to the craftsman who molds it, to the artist who paints it, and to the gilder who embellishes it. If you fail to observe this precaution, you will not know how to overcome your sensuality and feelings, nor will you get along well in the community with the religious or attain holy peace or free yourself from many stumbling blocks and evils.[/i] [/quote] Agreed Nunsense. That is why i said both precautions and maxims/or counsels if you will. My point being that OHF having a definite way of seeing spirituality essentially referred to very simalar things more than once each time perceiving the truth on a different level if that makes any sense? In many of the saints you will find the same themes repeated over and over again in slightly different terms as they see added dimensions of the relatedness of truth inherent in them. Hugs ! Tenderly, Indwelling Trinity
Nunsense Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 [quote name='Indwelling Trinity' date='09 February 2010 - 04:25 PM' timestamp='1265693139' post='2053955'] Agreed Nunsense. That is why i said both precautions and maxims/or counsels if you will. My point being that OHF having a definite way of seeing spirituality essentially referred to very simalar things more than once each time perceiving the truth on a different level if that makes any sense? In many of the saints you will find the same themes repeated over and over again in slightly different terms as they see added dimensions of the relatedness of truth inherent in them. Hugs ! Tenderly, Indwelling Trinity [/quote] I get your point but sometimes it is good to be accurate, especially if others might want to look up the actual references. Saying the Counsels as opposed to the Precautions just gives them a better chance of finding the exact quote they want.
Indwelling Trinity Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 [quote name='nunsense' date='09 February 2010 - 01:30 AM' timestamp='1265693435' post='2053956'] I get your point but sometimes it is good to be accurate, especially if others might want to look up the actual references. Saying the Counsels as opposed to the Precautions just gives them a better chance of finding the exact quote they want. [/quote/ Laughing.... I am an INFJ..... what can i say? It is my fatal flaw to look for relationships rather than accuratley quoted facts. Mea Culpa! Tenderly, Indwelling Trinity
Nunsense Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 [quote name='Indwelling Trinity' date='09 February 2010 - 04:36 PM' timestamp='1265693799' post='2053960'] [quote name='nunsense' date='09 February 2010 - 01:30 AM' timestamp='1265693435' post='2053956'] I get your point but sometimes it is good to be accurate, especially if others might want to look up the actual references. Saying the Counsels as opposed to the Precautions just gives them a better chance of finding the exact quote they want. [/quote/ Laughing.... I am an INFJ..... what can i say? It is my fatal flaw to look for relationships rather than accuratley quoted facts. Mea Culpa! Tenderly, Indwelling Trinity [/quote] No, no. No problem for me. But the original post asked for the quote, so I thought it might be important to her.
Indwelling Trinity Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 BTW...... Thanks for polishing my stones! Indwelling Trinity
Nunsense Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 [quote name='Indwelling Trinity' date='09 February 2010 - 04:45 PM' timestamp='1265694330' post='2053969'] BTW...... Thanks for polishing my stones! Indwelling Trinity [/quote] Oh, oh. I'm supposed to pray NOT to be a source of mortification for anyone else! Now it's my mea culpa - how did that happen?
Indwelling Trinity Posted February 9, 2010 Posted February 9, 2010 [quote name='nunsense' date='09 February 2010 - 01:50 AM' timestamp='1265694652' post='2053975'] Oh, oh. I'm supposed to pray NOT to be a source of mortification for anyone else! Now it's my mea culpa - how did that happen? [/quote] Laughing.... lets just say God is generous in handing out gifts!
vee Posted February 10, 2010 Author Posted February 10, 2010 (edited) Interesting this turned into some kind of Carmelite Trivial Pursuit or something reminiscent of a Dominican sledding discussion. I pick option D btw where the quote comes from John of the Cross` rarely known book Monasteries - Having a Happy Fun Time. Edited February 10, 2010 by vee8
Indwelling Trinity Posted February 10, 2010 Posted February 10, 2010 [quote name='vee8' date='09 February 2010 - 08:01 PM' timestamp='1265760100' post='2054415'] Interesting this turned into some kind of Carmelite Trivial Pursuit or something reminiscent of a Dominican sledding discussion. I pick option D btw where the quote comes from John of the Cross` rarely known book Monasteries - Having a Happy Fun Time. [/quote] Laughing... so you are into polishing stones too?
Nunsense Posted February 10, 2010 Posted February 10, 2010 Actually I think it was from his unpublished work, "We gotta get out of this place!"
laetitia crucis Posted February 10, 2010 Posted February 10, 2010 This thread makes me happy -- I love all you Carmelites!
Indwelling Trinity Posted February 10, 2010 Posted February 10, 2010 [quote name='laetitia crucis' date='10 February 2010 - 10:36 AM' timestamp='1265812562' post='2054678'] This thread makes me happy -- I love all you Carmelites! [/quote] Laughing you forgot your popcorn! If you think this is bad wait until you get a look inside the monastery! love, Indwelling Trinity
vee Posted February 11, 2010 Author Posted February 11, 2010 [quote name='Indwelling Trinity' date='09 February 2010 - 09:44 PM' timestamp='1265769862' post='2054486'] Laughing... so you are into polishing stones too? [/quote] Mother Angelica said something like if we arent a thorn in someone`s side we arent doing Christianity right. Im nowhere near her level of thorniness though but Im sure I irritate those around me whether or not I intend it. Sometimes I intend it lol
vee Posted February 11, 2010 Author Posted February 11, 2010 [quote name='nunsense' date='10 February 2010 - 12:39 AM' timestamp='1265780358' post='2054602'] Actually I think it was from his unpublished work, "We gotta get out of this place!" [/quote] Now Ive got a list of unpublished books by saints rattling around in my head.
vee Posted February 11, 2010 Author Posted February 11, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Indwelling Trinity' date='10 February 2010 - 10:50 AM' timestamp='1265817008' post='2054717'] Laughing you forgot your popcorn! If you think this is bad wait until you get a look inside the monastery! love, Indwelling Trinity [/quote] Its probably the last place she wants to look being on Team Dominican and all. Oh heck a Carmelite monastery is the last place I want to see as well but Gods will and my will are not the same Edited February 11, 2010 by vee8
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