Who Said This?

[laetitia crucis]

[quote name='vee8' date='10 February 2010 - 08:28 PM' timestamp='1265848104' post='2054971']
Its probably the last place she wants to look being on Team Dominican and all. Oh heck a Carmelite monastery is the last place I want to see as well but Gods will and my will are not the same
[/quote]



To be honest, I am in [i]awe [/i]of any Carmelite vocation -- what a calling!!!

I must admit, the thought of being a Carmelite has passed my mind here and there, but I guess I should thank God for some kind of infused grace of knowing -- truly [i]knowing[/i] without a doubt -- that I am not called to be a Carmelite, especially not a contemplative Carmelite. At first, I was a little sad about that (particularly when considering all those amazing canonized Carmelite contemplatives, or after having read the works of St. Teresa, St. John of the Cross, and St. Therese!), but soon recovered since the Body of Christ has many parts and I will be happy to serve Him even as little eyelash. I remain in awe (and maybe even have a bit of holy envy) of those called to this sublime vocation -- powerhouses of prayer, penance, and sacrifice!

I thank God for all that are called to that vocation. Truly a blessing for the entire Church!!!

Oh, and I must not forget this time:

[sub]I've always heard contemplatives are the most entertaining people to be around. [/sub]

[Indwelling Trinity]

[quote name='laetitia crucis' date='10 February 2010 - 09:49 PM' timestamp='1265852945' post='2054996']


To be honest, I am in [i]awe [/i]of any Carmelite vocation -- what a calling!!!

I must admit, the thought of being a Carmelite has passed my mind here and there, but I guess I should thank God for some kind of infused grace of knowing -- truly [i]knowing[/i] without a doubt -- that I am not called to be a Carmelite, especially not a contemplative Carmelite. At first, I was a little sad about that (particularly when considering all those amazing canonized Carmelite contemplatives, or after having read the works of St. Teresa, St. John of the Cross, and St. Therese!), but soon recovered since the Body of Christ has many parts and I will be happy to serve Him even as little eyelash. I remain in awe (and maybe even have a bit of holy envy) of those called to this sublime vocation -- powerhouses of prayer, penance, and sacrifice!

I thank God for all that are called to that vocation. Truly a blessing for the entire Church!!!

Oh, and I must not forget this time:

[sub]I've always heard contemplatives are the most entertaining people to be around. [/sub]
[/quote]

Laughing hard here... we put our sandals on the same way as anyone! But i beg you please do not call us powerhouses of prayer... i feel like the local electric company!

No one vocation is better than the other. I would make a terrible Dominican or benedictine etc... Carmel just happens to fit me. simple and no complications. Holiness is found in being in God's will wherever that may lead. Pedestals only lead to pride and eventual spiritual downfall!

Keeping my feet on the ground where they belong

Edited February 11, 2010 by Indwelling Trinity

[BarbTherese]

[quote]Holiness is found in being in God's will wherever that may lead.[/quote]

Very well said!

[Indwelling Trinity]

[quote name='laetitia crucis' date='10 February 2010 - 09:49 PM' timestamp='1265852945' post='2054996']


To be honest, I am in [i]awe [/i]of any Carmelite vocation -- what a calling!!!

I must admit, the thought of being a Carmelite has passed my mind here and there, but I guess I should thank God for some kind of infused grace of knowing -- truly [i]knowing[/i] without a doubt -- that I am not called to be a Carmelite, especially not a contemplative Carmelite. At first, I was a little sad about that (particularly when considering all those amazing canonized Carmelite contemplatives, or after having read the works of St. Teresa, St. John of the Cross, and St. Therese!), but soon recovered since the Body of Christ has many parts and I will be happy to serve Him even as little eyelash. I remain in awe (and maybe even have a bit of holy envy) of those called to this sublime vocation -- powerhouses of prayer, penance, and sacrifice!

I thank God for all that are called to that vocation. Truly a blessing for the entire Church!!!

Oh, and I must not forget this time:

[sub]I've always heard contemplatives are the most entertaining people to be around. [/sub]
[/quote]

BTW.... I got an eyelash stuck in my right eye... Might that be you? I hate to be rude to visitors and friends!

[laetitia crucis]

[quote name='Indwelling Trinity' date='11 February 2010 - 01:26 AM' timestamp='1265866017' post='2055139']
BTW.... I got an eyelash stuck in my right eye... Might that be you? I hate to be rude to visitors and friends!
[/quote]

It WAS!! :shock

[sub]How did you know...? [/sub]

[vee]

[quote name='laetitia crucis' date='10 February 2010 - 08:49 PM' timestamp='1265852945' post='2054996']


To be honest, I am in [i]awe [/i]of any Carmelite vocation -- what a calling!!!

I must admit, the thought of being a Carmelite has passed my mind here and there, but I guess I should thank God for some kind of infused grace of knowing -- truly [i]knowing[/i] without a doubt -- that I am not called to be a Carmelite, especially not a contemplative Carmelite.

[/quote]


I remember saying to God [i]anything[/i] but [i]them[/i], and if you think you`re calling me to [i]that[/i] you must have the wrong number! As if God ever gets the wrong number.

[quote] At first, I was a little sad about that (particularly when considering all those amazing canonized Carmelite contemplatives, or after having read the works of St. Teresa, St. John of the Cross, and St. Therese!),[/quote]

Heh I tried using them as examples to God on why I could never do such a thing [size="1"]because they`re all nuts[/size] but that backfired as well.


[sub][/sub][quote][sub]I've always heard contemplatives are the most entertaining people to be around. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/hehehe.gif[/img][/sub][/quote]

Basically every time we meet my spiritual director will be going along all objectively etc then will ask if Ive ever met a Carmelite to which I always say no while thinking [size="1"][size="2"]nor do I want to lol[/size][/size]! He then goes on to say how happy, joyful, and magnificent the ones he has met are. Im sitting there thinking um you`re supposed to say they`re horrible mean and evil so I can rule them out not make them sound good! Im a bit slow sometimes but I think the fact that he says something like that every meeting might mean he`s trying to tell me something.

[vee]

I have a vow profession question after I came across [url="http://dominicansisterswanganui.blogspot.com/"]these[/url] Dominicans. They write [quote]As is customary in the Dominican ceremony, the new novices are offereda choice to be crowned either by a crown of roses or a crown of thorns.In imitation of their Crucified Beloved, and also of their DominicanPatroness, St. Catherine - the three novices each chose and were giventhe crown of thorns, as the choir chanted the Jesu corona virginum...

"Receive dear sister the crown of thorns in memory of the crown of OurLord, and through this know that it is not fitting that those membersbe delicate, who are under the thorn crowned head, which is Christ, andif you wear the crown of thorns of tribulation in this life you will berewarded by your Spouse with a crown of glory for evermore in the lifeto come."

[/quote]

So beautiful but why then do the Carmelites crown with flowers?

[HisChild]

Each order has their own nuances and rubrics. I can't even begin to guess why the Dominicans crown thorns vs. flowers... I would imagine the crown of flowers (for the Carmelites) is a symbol of the crown of thorns.

That Dominican community looks so peaceful set there in NZ. Too bad they're not in communion with Rome.

[laetitia crucis]

[quote name='vee8' date='11 February 2010 - 09:31 PM' timestamp='1265938277' post='2055571']
I have a vow profession question after I came across [url="http://dominicansisterswanganui.blogspot.com/"]these[/url] Dominicans. They write

So beautiful but why then do the Carmelites crown with flowers?
[/quote]

They can have THORNS??? That's AWESOME!

So... is this common for ALL Dominican communities? I always thought this tradition was limited to the Franciscans.

The [url="http://marymediatrix.com"]Franciscan Sisters of the Immaculate[/url] receive a white crown of flowers (I think roses?) for their investiture, then for the their First Vows they receive a crown of red and white flowers (or roses? -- like St. Maximilian's crowns). Hmm.. or it could be the other way around, but I think that's right... ... Anyhoo -- for their Final Profession they receive a crown of thorns. Ah... the beauty.

I'd totally want the crown of thorns ANY day.

I remember when I went to the visit the CFRs a few years ago, they had crown of thorns sitting out on one of their tables... I was so tempted to pick it up and try it on when no one was around... it was really nice and pointy. (Sharper than I expected at least. )

[laetitia crucis]

[quote name='Indwelling Trinity' date='10 February 2010 - 10:02 PM' timestamp='1265853756' post='2055010']
Laughing hard here... we put our sandals on the same way as anyone! But i beg you please do not call us powerhouses of prayer... i feel like the local electric company!

No one vocation is better than the other. I would make a terrible Dominican or benedictine etc... Carmel just happens to fit me. simple and no complications. Holiness is found in being in God's will wherever that may lead. Pedestals only lead to pride and eventual spiritual downfall!

Keeping my feet on the ground where they belong
[/quote]

Dearest Sister, I promise not to call you (or any others) a "powerhouse of prayer" any more -- however, once I get to heaven (God willing) and see you all there, all radiant from your contemplative lives on earth, I might not be able to keep that promise. Especially when I'll be searching for some sunglasses. Tee hee.

<-- that little flickering light bulb could be me one day.

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='laetitia crucis' date='11 February 2010 - 09:02 PM' timestamp='1265940152' post='2055583']
I remember when I went to the visit the CFRs a few years ago, they had crown of thorns sitting out on one of their tables... I was so tempted to pick it up and try it on when no one was around... it was really nice and pointy. (Sharper than I expected at least. )
[/quote]

The CFRs receive a crown of roses on their first profession of vows. On their final profession, they receive the crown of thorns. During my visit, we were shown pictures and one was of Sr. Clare Matthias after her final vows. She was shown hugging her grandmother and Sr. Francesca said that care must be taken to hug someone with the crown on as the thorns are cut on the inside, but they have very sharp thorns on the outside. I thought it was so beautiful.

First profession of Sr. Elizabeth, Sr. Mairead, and Sr. Catherine:

[img]http://franciscansisterscfr.com/images/crown.jpg[/img]


Final profession of Sr. Francis (Vocation Director):

[img]http://www.franciscanfriars.com/images5/candle.jpg[/img]

Edited February 12, 2010 by MaterMisericordiae

[laetitia crucis]

[quote name='MaterMisericordiae' date='11 February 2010 - 10:38 PM' timestamp='1265942283' post='2055600']
The CFRs receive a crown of roses on their first profession of vows. On their final profession, they receive the crown of thorns. During my visit, we were shown pictures and one was of Sr. Clare Matthias after her final vows. She was shown hugging her grandmother and Sr. Francesca said that care must be taken to hug someone with the crown on as the thorns are cut on the inside, but they have very sharp thorns on the outside. I thought it was so beautiful.

First profession of Sr. Elizabeth, Sr. Mairead, and Sr. Catherine:

[img]http://franciscansisterscfr.com/images/crown.jpg[/img]


Final profession of Sr. Francis (Vocation Director):

[img]http://www.franciscanfriars.com/images5/candle.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

What wonderful pictures, MaterMisericordiae! Thank you for sharing these!

In that first picture, Sr. Mairead (she's the middle one, right?) looks to be absolutely BEAMING! I also love the look on Sr. Elizabeth's face (white veiled). Just beautiful.

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='laetitia crucis' date='11 February 2010 - 09:49 PM' timestamp='1265942977' post='2055605']
What wonderful pictures, MaterMisericordiae! Thank you for sharing these!

In that first picture, Sr. Mairead (she's the middle one, right?) looks to be absolutely BEAMING! I also love the look on Sr. Elizabeth's face (white veiled). Just beautiful.
[/quote]

The one in the middle is Sr. Elizabeth, actually. The white veiled sister is Sr. Catherine. The one on the far end is Sr. Mairead. All of them look so happy.

[Indwelling Trinity]

Could any of my Dominican friends help me? I was thinking th crown of thorns was given to Catherine of Sienea in a mystical experience when Jesus asked her to choose during her mystical espousal to Christ? I think I remember that long ago from reading Raymond of Carpua's biograpy of her life.

As for flowers in Carmel It is the sign of the brides mystical marraige with Christ but as i remember roses have thorns! More common in Carmel, you will find that in our houses, in our cells and even on our rosaries, our crosses are without corpus's on them. that is where the Carmelite is supposed to hang with her beloved silently pointing the way to the kingdom. At final profession we receive a large crucifix worn under the scapular over the heart on the left signifying our final espousals to and with the crucified One.

As His Child says...each community has its own symbolism and customs. We are all spouses of the Crucified one.

Another tradition in Many Carmel's not as universal as it used to be was to have a skull on the table before the cross at the Prioresses place
in the refectory, reminding us of the fleeting of the world and to mortify ourselves during meals.

Yes Carmelites are "Fruits!" we grow in a garden! The garden of Carmel! WOOT!


Tenderly,

Indwelling Trinity

Edited February 12, 2010 by Indwelling Trinity

[HisChild]

I read in the St. Catherine of Siena from the Classics of Western Spirituality that she was given a wedding band that wasn't able to be seen by others. That made me all tingly. Almost made me want to be a Dominican. Almost

[vee]

[quote name='HisChild' date='11 February 2010 - 08:52 PM' timestamp='1265939543' post='2055578']
That Dominican community looks so peaceful set there in NZ. Too bad they're not in communion with Rome.
[/quote]

Thanks for spotting that as I only glanced at their site and didnt realize they aren in communion. I pray they one day will be!


[quote]
They can have THORNS??? [img]public/style_emoticons/default/woot.gif[/img] That's AWESOME![/quote]


Im actually chuckling at this because Ive never read or heard anyone get excited over a crown of thorns before. Theres nothing wrong with that Im just amused is all. I can see you someday just beaming with your thorns like the sister in the posted photo except not in the CFR habit of course.


[quote]Another tradition in Many Carmel's not as universal as it used to bewas to have a skull on the table before the cross at the Prioressesplace
in the refectory, reminding us of the fleeting of the world and to mortify ourselves during meals.[/quote]

In the Teresa of Avila miniseries when she pours water into a skull and then takes a big drink I had to pause the movie for a minute as I went through a variety of expressions like and because displaying it is one thing but drinking out of it I did not expect!

[quote]As for flowers in Carmel It is the sign of the brides mystical marraigewith Christ but as i remember roses have thorns! More common in Carmel,you will find that in our houses, in our cells and even on ourrosaries, our crosses are without corpus's on them. that is where theCarmelite is supposed to hang with her beloved silently pointing theway to the kingdom[/quote]

I remember looking at the website of a Carmel and noticing in the photos that all the crosses were empty and I thought thats strange are they Protestant until I found out what you just explained.

Edited February 13, 2010 by vee8

[Indwelling Trinity]

[quote name='vee8' date='12 February 2010 - 09:08 PM' timestamp='1266023291' post='2056174']
Thanks for spotting that as I only glanced at their site and didnt realize they aren in communion. I pray they one day will be!





Im actually chuckling at this because Ive never read or heard anyone get excited over a crown of thorns before. Theres nothing wrong with that Im just amused is all. I can see you someday just beaming with your thorns like the sister in the posted photo except not in the CFR habit of course.




In the Teresa of Avila miniseries when she pours water into a skull and then takes a big drink I had to pause the movie for a minute as I went through a variety of expressions like and because displaying it is one thing but drinking out of it I did not expect!



I remember looking at the website of a Carmel and noticing in the photos that all the crosses were empty and I thought thats strange are they Protestant until I found out what you just explained.
[/quote]

Just to calm your nerves... I never saw any one drink from it! Thank God! The initiial shock of some of the stuff was enough for me when I entered! Laughing.... As for the plain crosses... not protestant just a sign of a passionate love affair with the crucified one!

[vee]

[quote name='Indwelling Trinity' date='12 February 2010 - 08:25 PM' timestamp='1266024350' post='2056179']
Just to calm your nerves... I never saw any one drink from it! Thank God! The initiial shock of some of the stuff was enough for me when I entered! Laughing.... As for the plain crosses... not protestant just a sign of a passionate love affair with the crucified one!
[/quote]

After thinking about it having a skull in the refectory certainly makes people uncomfortable but in a good way because life isshort and we need to remember that. Of course drinking fromit is in a whole different league that I cant even begin to contemplate! As for the reasons for the plain cross thats a lot to think about too but a good time to think about it with Lent almost here.

[Jennifer G.]

[quote name='vee8' date='12 February 2010 - 08:08 PM' timestamp='1266023291' post='2056174']
In the Teresa of Avila miniseries when she pours water into a skull and then takes a big drink I had to pause the movie for a minute as I went through a variety of expressions like and because displaying it is one thing but drinking out of it I did not expect!
[/quote]

I saw that too, and went through similar expressions. Do Carmels still do that, or was that just St. Teresa of Avila? Also, I saw this one movie (from a link somewhere here - it was in French) where the young postulant goes into her cell (all stone) for the first time, and (in classic movie fashion), turns around and sees a skull on the table. She gasps and stumbles, and all the while, the door is slowly closing behind her. Now, if that were me, I'd probably have these 3 expressions -

1 - Gasp.
2 - Figure it's probably like those medival paperweights/candleholders.
3 - Hold it up and say some Shakespearean quote.


[quote]
I remember looking at the website of a Carmel and noticing in the photos that all the crosses were empty and I thought thats strange are they Protestant until I found out what you just explained.
[/quote]

Same here. Coming from a Lutheran background, I was like, "Huh? Didn't expect to see a plain cross in a Catholic convent.", then I figured it was your personal cross that you pick up and carry.

[Indwelling Trinity]

Just watched that you tube presentation on Therese and boy does it make Carmelite life look warped ! Shocked me too and I am a Carmelite!

In all my years in Carmel I never found an inkling of such morose drama even amidst the penitential lifestyle. For Petesake the life is down right joyful! Remember I did not say perfect but joyful!

Like OHM said...God preserve us from sad saints! :shield:
Shoots Hollywood.....

Edited February 16, 2010 by Indwelling Trinity