Tea Party

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='08 April 2010 - 06:25 PM' timestamp='1270765509' post='2089539']
While some of the Founding Fathers were deists, others were devout Christians. Of particular note is Charles Carroll. King Louis XVI, a very devout Catholic monarch, also deserves to be counted as a Founding Father of the United States, at least to some degree.
[/quote]

Carroll didn't do much at all, and while he signed and voted, I've never heard that he was involved in writing any document. Louis XVI does not deserve to be counted as a Founding Father.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='aalpha1989' date='08 April 2010 - 06:07 PM' timestamp='1270768066' post='2089572']
Carroll didn't do much at all, and while he signed and voted, I've never heard that he was involved in writing any document. Louis XVI does not deserve to be counted as a Founding Father.
[/quote]

One is considered a founding father if he signed the Declaration of Independence or Constitution.

I think that Louis XVI should be considered a founding father in a broader sense because it was his military aid that allowed the colonies to win the Revolution.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='08 April 2010 - 04:42 PM' timestamp='1270759365' post='2089463']
you mean, ONE of the guys was black. one. there are other types of intimidation than racial, you know, and the fact that this guy was black doesnt mean he ios exempt from them. and thats only at the presidential speech, what about all the town hall meetings Tea Partiers showed up to armed?
[/quote]
If even one of them was black, it makes the whole comparison to Jim Crow pretty silly.

But I guess the whole irrefutable "gun owners=rightwing=racist" logic went over my head.

Edited April 9, 2010 by Socrates

[Socrates]

[quote name='aalpha1989' date='08 April 2010 - 05:32 PM' timestamp='1270762334' post='2089505']
Guess you're right. Constitutions "in, for, and by" only work if they are "in, for, and by" truly Christian people, though (hint: the Founding Fathers weren't Christian, and nowadays the US Constitution isn't run in,for, and by Christians anyway).
[/quote]
John Adams, whom you're paraphrasing, was definitely a founding father. We looked this up last time, and the vast majority of the American Founding Fathers (signers of the Declaration of Independence) were indeed Christian. Only a small handful (notably Jefferson and Franklin) were Deists. But that's getting way off-topic.

I'm not seeing how scrapping the Constitution, with its limitations of federal power, is making our country or its governance any more Christian.

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='Socrates' date='08 April 2010 - 06:15 PM' timestamp='1270775719' post='2089668']
If even one of them was black, it makes the whole comparison to Jim Crow pretty silly.

But I guess the whole irrefutable "gun owners=rightwing=racist" logic went over my head.
[/quote]

good thing i didnt make that comparison

i was referring to intimidation similar to stuff like in Iraq, where armed people were there to intimidate people into voting for saddam/etc, or into not voting at all, and comparing that to the town hall meetings, ostensibly intended for rational discourse and expressing of opinions, and the guys there brandishing guns trying either to make their opinion count more, or prevent opposing people from voicing theirs too loudly.

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='Socrates' date='08 April 2010 - 09:19 PM' timestamp='1270775941' post='2089671']
John Adams, whom you're paraphrasing, was definitely a founding father. We looked this up last time, and the vast majority of the American Founding Fathers (signers of the Declaration of Independence) were indeed Christian. Only a small handful (notably Jefferson and Franklin) were Deists. But that's getting way off-topic.
[/quote]

he was also a unitarian, i.e. not Christian.

[quote]
I'm not seeing how scrapping the Constitution, with its limitations of federal power, is making our country or its governance any more Christian.
[/quote]


Scrapping the Constitution is exactly what politicians have done for the last 150 years (if not longer). There is not one direction away from the Constitution. One can easily become more Christian while dismissing the Constitution, but one can just as easily become anti-Christian while dismissing the Constitution. You just need the right people in power. Democracy only works if people use their well-informed consciences, and Protestant denominations inform their own consciences increasingly poorly. In a non-Catholic America Democracy cannot be successful very much longer.

[rkwright]

[quote name='aalpha1989' date='08 April 2010 - 08:25 PM' timestamp='1270776328' post='2089675']
he was also a unitarian, i.e. not Christian.




Scrapping the Constitution is exactly what politicians have done for the last 150 years (if not longer). There is not one direction away from the Constitution. One can easily become more Christian while dismissing the Constitution, but one can just as easily become anti-Christian while dismissing the Constitution. You just need the right people in power. Democracy only works if people use their well-informed consciences, [b]and Protestant denominations inform their own consciences increasingly poorly.[/b] In a non-Catholic America Democracy cannot be successful very much longer.
[/quote]

Please... if anything Catholic's are worse and this last election proved this. Over 50% of Catholic's voted for Obama and that was after our Bishops stuck their necks out on this issue. I don't know if any Catholic in America can say in good faith their consciences were not well informed on the issues after what the Church did in the last election.

Edited April 9, 2010 by rkwright

[ThePenciledOne]

I like how we are still pointing fingers on this issue....

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='ThePenciledOne' date='09 April 2010 - 08:52 AM' timestamp='1270821131' post='2089905']
I like how we are still pointing fingers on this issue....
[/quote]
[img]http://www.evacommentary.org/images_capdoc/reichu_wotaku-gaku-cosplay_no-u.jpg[/img]

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='rkwright' date='09 April 2010 - 08:41 AM' timestamp='1270816884' post='2089867']
Please... if anything Catholic's are worse and this last election proved this. Over 50% of Catholic's voted for Obama and that was after our Bishops stuck their necks out on this issue. [b]I don't know if any Catholic in America can say in good faith their consciences were not well informed on the issues after what the Church did in the last election.[/b]
[/quote]


So you agree that Catholics' consciences are well formed? The Church has done her part. Everything I said was true. Protestant denominations are moving more and more to the left away from true Orthodoxy. I don't really see how you were disagreeing with me at all.

[Winchester]

After much thought, I will throw in a yes vote. Because the enemy of my enemy is my friend and the Tea Party movement does not seek to violate my right to life, which Obama and the Democrats do seek to remove.

Attempting to disarm or curtail my right to defend myself is a violation of my right to life.

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='Winchester' date='10 April 2010 - 05:55 AM' timestamp='1270904126' post='2090373']
After much thought, I will throw in a yes vote. Because the enemy of my enemy is my friend and the Tea Party movement does not seek to violate my right to life, which Obama and the Democrats do seek to remove.

Attempting to disarm or curtail my right to defend myself is a violation of my right to life.
[/quote]

question. has Obama done anything like gun control yet? was it a campaign promise? what, other than "he is a democrat" makes that so certain? i dont remmber if he did promise anything so, enlighten me

[Winchester]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='10 April 2010 - 09:10 AM' timestamp='1270905049' post='2090375']
question. has Obama done anything like gun control yet? was it a campaign promise? what, other than "he is a democrat" makes that so certain? i dont remmber if he did promise anything so, enlighten me
[/quote]
Obama's record is one of gun control. He hasn't done this as president yet, but he's stated he believes in gun control. He belongs to a party that supports gun control, has indicated disdain fro gun owners.