Thomism

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='zunshynn' date='08 March 2010 - 02:49 PM' timestamp='1268077773' post='2068985']
I agree with this comment. There are a lot of saints who's ideas about the role of women (and minorities, and a lot of other things) are not what we would consider acceptable nowadays, but that doesn't mean that they didn't respect women. In fact, I'm pretty sure that even with a flawed understanding of biology and anatomy, St. Thomas had greater respect for women than most men that are gung-ho about women's rights.
[/quote]

Yes, and rejecting much of what he said about women is not rejecting his theology as a whole.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='08 March 2010 - 02:52 PM' timestamp='1268077936' post='2068991']
Yes, and rejecting much of what he said about women is not rejecting his theology as a whole.
[/quote]
The issue is that you changed your vote based on a rather dubious article. Even the most staunch, traditional Thomist would disagree with Thomas on many things (including the antiquated science I would hope).

And no, women are not ontologically inferior to men (according to Thomas). Men do have domestic headship but this is not domination. Thomas makes this explicit when he comments on Genesis saying that Eve was not made from the head of Adam because she was not meant to dominate him; nor we she made from the feet of Adam as she was not meant to be subject to him as a slave; rather, she was made from his side (rib) which signified the social union of man and woman.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='08 March 2010 - 01:03 PM' timestamp='1268078618' post='2069001']
The issue is that you changed your vote based on a rather dubious article. Even the most staunch, traditional Thomist would disagree with Thomas on many things (including the antiquated science I would hope).[/quote]
She didn't actually delete and change her vote. At least not to this point.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='08 March 2010 - 03:08 PM' timestamp='1268078908' post='2069005']
She didn't actually delete and change her vote. At least not to this point.
[/quote]


I haven't even voted yet because I'm not sure if I can rightfully call myself a Thomist in any meaningful sense.

[Apotheoun]

You appear to be an L_D'ist.

[HisChildForever]

Besides, I was being dramatic about changing my vote.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='08 March 2010 - 03:27 PM' timestamp='1268080033' post='2069018']
Besides, I was being dramatic about changing my vote.
[/quote]

You dramatic? No way!

[Thy Geekdom Come]

In all the ongoing debates between the Dominicans and Franciscans, I tend to side with the Franciscans. However, I appreciate the good doctor's classification system and his contributions.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Raphael' date='08 March 2010 - 04:05 PM' timestamp='1268082306' post='2069040']
In all the ongoing debates between the Dominicans and Franciscans, I tend to side with the Franciscans. However, I appreciate the good doctor's classification system and his contributions.
[/quote]
Same here.

[Slappo]

[quote name='Raphael' date='08 March 2010 - 01:05 PM' timestamp='1268082306' post='2069040']
In all the ongoing debates between the Dominicans and Franciscans, I tend to side with the Franciscans. However, I appreciate the good doctor's classification system and his contributions.
[/quote]

Where as I went to Franciscan University and came out with a Dominican heart

[laetitia crucis]

"We consider that Thomas should be called not only the Angelic, but also the Common or Universal Doctor of the Church; for the Church has adopted his philosophy for her own." -- Pope Pius XI

[Slappo]

[quote name='laetitia crucis' date='08 March 2010 - 07:03 PM' timestamp='1268103787' post='2069328']
"We consider that Thomas should be called not only the Angelic, but also the Common or Universal Doctor of the Church; for the Church has adopted his philosophy for her own." -- Pope Pius XI


[/quote]

Totally +1

[Fiat_Voluntas_Tua]

I'm an analytic Thomist.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Fiat_Voluntas_Tua' date='13 March 2010 - 02:15 AM' timestamp='1268464524' post='2072266']
I'm an analytic Thomist.
[/quote]
Like G.E.M Anscombe?

[Nunsense]

I am a female who doesn't have any problem with the views of Thomas because I see beyond the female role that I have in this life to the life eternal where we will be like the angels. I am a woman because I have a physical body, but my spirit is genderless.


And I don't mind being subject to men in all things, i.e. domestic, civil, and ecclesiastical societies because I am not storing up my treasures here on earth, but in heaven. And the last shall be first.

At least that is how I see it.

[praxedes]

Nunsense,

What a great response.

Pax,
Praxedes

P.S. Though not a Thomist, he certainly did write beautifully. No debate there.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='nunsense' date='13 March 2010 - 06:15 AM' timestamp='1268475355' post='2072278']
And I don't mind being subject to men in all things, i.e. domestic, civil, and ecclesiastical societies because I am not storing up my treasures here on earth, but in heaven. And the last shall be first.
[/quote]

It's not about earthly treasures but about equality.

[Formosus]

I don't think Aquinas' view on women is that big of an issue. Thomas was basing his view on an (flawed) Aristotelian biology and there is no reason why any modern Thomist would need to accept that view as fact. With that said, I am not a Thomist ( I consider myself a Palamite) but if I was it would be as a Transcendental Thomist.

Edited March 19, 2010 by Formosus

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Formosus' date='19 March 2010 - 01:00 PM' timestamp='1269021607' post='2075770']
I don't think Aquinas' view on women is that big of an issue. Thomas was basing his view on an (flawed) Aristotelian biology and there is no reason why any modern Thomist would need to accept that view as fact. With that said, I am not a Thomist ( I consider myself a Palamite) but if I was it would be as a Transcendental Thomist.
[/quote]

Palamas is among my least favorite theologians.

[Nunsense]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='20 March 2010 - 04:06 AM' timestamp='1269018384' post='2075731']
It's not about earthly treasures but about equality.
[/quote]


Focusing too much on equality can be a slippery slope. It leads to things like women wanting to be ordained as priests. There is an equality that God provides, but not all things in this world are equal, and should not be. Children should not tell their parents how to run the family. Religious have to be obedient to their superiors. We all have to obey the rules of the law. There are hierarchies in every aspect of life. Some work better or seem fairer than others and can be changed through legislation.

But I still think our focus needs to be on heavenly things and not earthly things. Nothing was particularly fair about the Romans oppressing the Jews but Jesus was trying to preach something else, certainly not equality.

I think having a head of the family works well, and having leaders in the Church too. The fact that I am not going to be that leader shouldn't be a major problem for me since Christ told his disciples not to seek power. St Paul even told the slaves to work as if they were working for Christ (he didn't say stand up and revolt).

I just don't object to what Aquinas wrote. Being subserviant can teach us about the humility of Christ who humbled Himself to become a man.... hardly equality from His point of view, being God Himself, and yet he was teaching us that we don't need to fight for position in this world.

I am probably in the minority on this, but I am happy with my position in life as a woman in the Church.