Extern Sisters

[vee]

[quote name='Indwelling Trinity' date='14 March 2010 - 11:45 AM' timestamp='1268531155' post='2072569']

I hope I have not confused you more! laughing...


[/quote]


Hmmm I see.....soooo whats a Carmelite?

[Indwelling Trinity]

[quote name='vee8' date='13 March 2010 - 11:21 PM' timestamp='1268536916' post='2072632']
Hmmm I see.....soooo whats a Carmelite?
[/quote]

Laughing... i am not going to tell you just for being the brat you are!

I love you sis.

[vee]

[quote name='Indwelling Trinity' date='14 March 2010 - 01:23 PM' timestamp='1268537016' post='2072637']
Laughing... i am not going to tell you just for being the brat you are!

I love you sis.
[/quote]




On the subject of extern sisters though Id be fine if God wants me to do that but it might be better for the public in general if Im cloistered and limited to talking two hours a day. It might lessen my time in purgatory too.

Edited March 14, 2010 by vee8

[cmaD2006]

[quote name='HisChild' date='13 March 2010 - 01:03 PM' timestamp='1268499820' post='2072355']
Exactly. For instance, The Sisters of Life call themselves contemplative active vs. the other way around. Mother Agnes told me it was because it was through their prayer that they were able to do any active ministry at all. If their own spiritual wells were dry, how could they be of any service to others? They have a tremendous spiritual life, almost as much as I've seen in some monasteries, but they're also very active. If one is considering a contemplative vocation, it would be good to visit with and discern with not only a purely contemplative community (cloistered or not) as well as those who have an active apostolate balanced with prayer.
[/quote]

And this points out another difference .... extern sisters of a cloistered monastery is different than being a sister of a contemplative/active (either direction) community, or a sister of an active community.

And not every contemplative/active community is the same ... the 1st community that I entered postulancy with was more cloistered than I expected. Long story short -- its a question of discernment. Obviously not every community is right for everyone, but you will only know by getting to know the community and, if your discernment indicates it, by entering.

[Totus Tuus]

I was an extern for about a year. It is a beautiful vocation! I think of it as the best of both worlds - you get to be Martha and Mary at once. In my community, externs lived outside of the cloister's enclosure, but had their own enclosure so that cloistered life was observed when outside duties weren't being carried out. It's a beautiful life. I started out feeling more attracted to the cloister before visiting, but after visiting I knew the extern life was definitely for me, and could see myself having stayed an extern forever! It just fit my personality perfectly.

It does differ a lot from community to community, though.

[Totus Tuus]

Oh and if you ever leave the religious life after having been an extern for a cloistered community, it makes your story much more complicated!! Haha. I don't usually tell people I was in religious life, because inevitably they have a hundred or more questions (which at first were very painful to answer!). But it gets even more confusing when you're dealing with their shock at your past life, their questions about which Order, where, how long, and cloistered v. active..... because THEN you have to explain you weren't either, you were an extern, and most people don't even know what an extern IS! lol!

[Nunsense]

[quote name='Indwelling Trinity' date='14 March 2010 - 12:45 PM' timestamp='1268531155' post='2072569']
It is OK sis... I am an associate hermit professed with them for 7 years. I have Multiple Sclerosis and am profoundly hard of hearing. At the Monastery the hermitages are quite far away from the main building. Minnesota winters are extremely cold and buried in snow. Mother feared that with my MS I would not be able to manage the deep snow and with my hearing loss would not be able to communicate by walkie talkie that they use. so if I fell etc... wI would not be able to mange to get help.

Now with new technology in hearing aids ans seeing that my MS has not progressed substantially the sisters are willing to have me live with the in a new hermitage nearer the main buildings.

Truthfully I do not know if this is God's will for i believe he has put in my heart the idea of founding a semi- eremitical Carmel devoted to Divine Mercy,as you can see on my profile. I am in contact with the provincial and have 4 women who wish to join me. My Prioress encouraes me as well as my spiritual director in this undertaking. But recently Mother felt maybe i was to live out divine mercy under the hermits.

The proposed community is strongly in my heart but I must be open to wherever God may send me... as I have said so many times the most important thing is to be in God's will through Obedience and humility. and so I keep my mind open and defer to my superior as we continue to discern God's will. I want only to say yes to Jesus in whatever way he wants. For the past 7 years i have been living as a finally professed Carmelite hermit. If Mother tells me to come back it would only be a transfer. And so I pray and wait to know God's will. I must be ready to live this life in a way that does not necessarily end in my own way of understanding it and so must be docile.

I hope I have not confused you more! laughing...

Tenderly,

Indwelling Trinity
[/quote]


Would you be able to explain your situation a little more for those of us who don't understand it? What is an 'associate' professed and how is it different from any other kind of professed? Are you a consecrated hermit to a Bishop or to a superior of a community? An associate conjures up images of secular Carmelites or tertiaries to me, is that what you mean? You have written about your time with the MCs and with the Carmelites, but obviously your situation is different now.

And if you are starting your own community, this usually means some kind of exclaustration from the original community, doesn't it?

As for writing here, I think it is good that sisters and hermits can use the Internet to stay in touch. St Teresa wrote hundreds of letter (there are books full of them) and St Teresa of the Andes wrote copiously too. Sometimes this is the way God uses a person. so I wouldn't see that as a problem if one has permission, as you do.

I have a friend who was a choir nun and later became an extern, and her situation changed a lot too. There seem to be a great variety of different tpes of religious life so I just get curious about them all. Don't feel you have to answer if this seems rude, I don't mean to sound that way.

[organwerke]

[quote name='nunsense' date='16 March 2010 - 01:28 PM' timestamp='1268738922' post='2073911']

As for writing here, I think it is good that sisters and hermits can use the Internet to stay in touch. St Teresa wrote hundreds of letter (there are books full of them) and St Teresa of the Andes wrote copiously too. Sometimes this is the way God uses a person. so I wouldn't see that as a problem if one has permission, as you do.
[/quote]

May I share some thoughts?
I appreciate very much those who have the gift of touching the souls with their writings.
I think to many saints who were asked by their superiors to write about their lives in order to bring others to God...
personally I'm not the kind of person who likes very much to write, while I love very much to read!!!
I love not only spiritual writings, but also literature (good one) in general, even if spiritual books are my favourite.
I think it is really a blessing for me to read so beautiful things here.
Of course I have a great respect and admiration towards those religious, in particular cloistered ones, who spend their days in prayer and in silence for the salvation of the souls, but I am very grateful to those who share their inner graces and sights with others.
For example I don't like very much to speak about myself, especially in public, or to answer to personal questions...and so I appreciate very much those persons who win their reserve to lighten others with their writings, because I myself wouldn't like very much to do this!!
I see at it as a very charitable thing, and it is a true blessing that I can read so many inspirational thoughts!
Of course I think many of you have my same feelings...anyway I wanted to say them!

[laetitia crucis]

[quote name='organwerke' date='16 March 2010 - 10:23 AM' timestamp='1268745780' post='2073928']
May I share some thoughts?
I appreciate very much those who have the gift of touching the souls with their writings.
I think to many saints who were asked by their superiors to write about their lives in order to bring others to God...
personally I'm not the kind of person who likes very much to write, while I love very much to read!!!
I love not only spiritual writings, but also literature (good one) in general, even if spiritual books are my favourite.
I think it is really a blessing for me to read so beautiful things here.
Of course I have a great respect and admiration towards those religious, in particular cloistered ones, who spend their days in prayer and in silence for the salvation of the souls, but I am very grateful to those who share their inner graces and sights with others.
For example I don't like very much to speak about myself, especially in public, or to answer to personal questions...and so I appreciate very much those persons who win their reserve to lighten others with their writings, because I myself wouldn't like very much to do this!!
I see at it as a very charitable thing, and it is a true blessing that I can read so many inspirational thoughts!
[b]Of course I think many of you have my same feelings...anyway I wanted to say them![/b]
[/quote]

Thank you for saying this -- I [i]completely[/i] agree!!

[praxedes]

An experienced spiritual director should be able to help one discern one's place in religious life.
Prayers.

Pax,
Praxedes

[sistersintigo]

This is not my own experience, but a carefully edited re-telling of what has been shared, and posted, by someone else. This individual entered a cloistered monastery; was asked/directed to leave, which they took very painfully; shares today about their experience which lasted a year or two.

This discerner, who I guess went from postulant and novice and then no further, shared what they observed at their monastery.

This monastery, besides the "Choir" monk/religious, had individuals participating at three other levels. One at a time, let's start from outside the enclosure and work our way in, back to the "choir" solemn-professed religious.

One individual could be observed outside, in secular dress. The person lived away from the monastery, and never entered the enclosure during the time our observer/discerner was trying their vocation. However, everybody inside, all the community members in the enclosure, knew this person well. Those who knew the secular-dressed person best, were those who needed to be driven to appointments at: clinics, hospitals, dentists, doctors, and so on; also those who ran errands under obedience, like shopping or negotiating of some sort. It emerged, that this driver, in secular dress, had entered the monastery some time ago, to try their vocation; then, a parent became critically ill, and the person was allowed to return to the outside world, to take care of said parent. In the end, the person decided voluntarily not to return to the enclosure, and made neither public vows, nor private promises. However, there were no hard feelings whatever, and this person, while no longer under obedience, was regarded as a member of the family, in a way. This individual was/is referred to as a "FAMILIAR."

Our next individual wears the habit, and moves back and forth through the access to the monastery enclosure. Lives in the enclosure, and at the same time, is under obedience to represent the community to visitors, relatives from outside, the driver who does the driving for outside errands, in truth anyone who communicates to the monastery approaching from the outside. This is a professed religious under vows; although not the "solemn-professed" vows of the choir religious, the vows are perpetual, and part of their vow of obedience is to respond to needs of the monastery that require access to the world beyond the enclosure. This is the "EXTERN" religious.

The reason our third example confuses people outside, is that this third participant is better known on the inside of the enclosure, really, than in the external/secular world. This third community member has agreed to make the gift of themselves to this monastery. However, Number Three has not professed vows at all. The community has accepted, with gratitude, the voluntary gift of this person's presence and participation in their contemplative, monastic vocation. Number three is not, however, under obedience as such; and expectations/requirements are rather gentler in the demands of, say, the asceticism of the life. For example, Number three attends prayer in daytime, but the Night Office to which the others are bound, which breaks nightly sleeping time into two short periods, is not required of Number Three who remains quietly in cell while the others pray the Night Office and the Matins (eg, Carthusians). Number three, when the community members fast, like as not is permitted to eat, although in the privacy of their private space. So the rule of the life is relaxed for this person, who nevertheless prefers, and has agreed, to give entirely of themselves to the enclosed life. This voluntary gift may be made one year at a time, then renewed every year. And this individual is a "DONATE."

[brandelynmarie]

Nooooow I get it!

[sistersintigo]

[quote name='brandelynmarie' date='28 March 2010 - 12:52 PM' timestamp='1269791538' post='2081970']
Nooooow I get it!
[/quote]
Many thanks to YOU, Brandi. You made my day.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='Indwelling Trinity' date='13 March 2010 - 02:57 PM' timestamp='1268510272' post='2072456']

Even though my typing is lousy..LOL I feel in a very tiny way and i say tiny( for I am no writer) Some of the conflict that i think Merton did. He was a true monk and hermit in an order known for speaking only a few words: yet he generated prolific number of writings which stemmed from his own life in Christ. It was a fire in him that had to be let out and given to others. If he did not, He could never be the monk he was called to be.

[/quote]

You are definitely a writer! And, I will pray that your MS stays in remission (or partial remission)--whatever its status is now.

I wanted to give your post a +1 but the computer told me I had used up all my +1's for the day! I don't remember giving any at all today, but maybe I did. I guess as a newbie I am limited to only one +1 day. So, consider your post "plussed." LOL

[brandelynmarie]

[quote name='sistersintigo' date='28 March 2010 - 02:15 PM' timestamp='1269796524' post='2081999']
Many thanks to YOU, Brandi. You made my day.
[/quote]

I'm so very glad What orders have donates? Is it just the Carthusians?

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='brandelynmarie' date='28 March 2010 - 12:42 PM' timestamp='1269798140' post='2082016']
I'm so very glad [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/blush.gif[/img] What orders have donates? Is it just the Carthusians?
[/quote]

The sisters across the street from me, Sisters of Christian Charity (not to be confused with the Franciscan Sisters of Christian Charity) have a number of volunteers. (That is what Sister Helen calls them.) They help the elderly sisters in non-medical ways. Although Sister Helen calls them volunteers, I think many of them are "Companions of Pauline" who are called "associate members" of the Order. The volunteers also do a lot of driving of the elderly sisters to the doctor, on errands, etc. None of the volunteers live in the convent.

Granted, this is an active order, not a contemplative one, but it provided a definition of what an "associate" might be.
And, although the elderly sisters have not taken a vow of enclosure, all except for a few are essentially "enclosed" for health reasons.

The elderly sisters themselves take turns answering the door and the phone, each one for an hour at a time. This works well for me, because I know that I can call Sister Helen during the 5:00 pm hour, and I won't be taking her away from prayers or work.

Edited March 28, 2010 by IgnatiusofLoyola

[sistersintigo]

[quote name='brandelynmarie' date='28 March 2010 - 02:42 PM' timestamp='1269798140' post='2082016']
What orders have donates? Is it just the Carthusians?
[/quote]
I only know of Carthusian donates myself.
With other monastic contemplatives, like the Camaldolese Benedictines who have hermits as well as cenobites, these places may have oblates which are different than donates. Actually I don't think it is possible or practiced for anyone to have BOTH donates and oblates. I guess it has something to do with stability and abbeys...you can hear my back scraping against the wall at this point. Reaching the limits of my info.

[Nunsense]

The Norbertine nuns in Tehachapi California have Donatas as well.

[truthfinder]

There are the Passionists in Whitesville who have a claustral oblate who would be very similar to a donate, but I believe that she takes no vows; the community just comes to an understanding as found in their Rule and Constitutions.

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='truthfinder' date='29 March 2010 - 01:21 AM' timestamp='1269840065' post='2082432']
There are the Passionists in Whitesville who have a claustral oblate who would be very similar to a donate, but I believe that she takes no vows; the community just comes to an understanding as found in their Rule and Constitutions.
[/quote]

The Passionists also don't take a vow of papal enclosure. I visited this community but I don't remember talking to them about the claustral oblate...