Has Russia Been Properly Consecrated

[Apotheoun]

Americans should be far more concerned about what is happening in our own country than about what is happening in Russia. If any country is actively spreading immorality around the globe it is the United States that is doing it.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='31 March 2010 - 07:12 PM' timestamp='1270077153' post='2084358']
Russia is undergoing a religious revival, while the United States is in the process of "constitutionally" embracing socialism.[/quote]

America is lightyears ahead of Russia in terms of having an established, respected freemarket. American liberal politicians would be free market advocates in a Russian context


[quote]All of these things can also be said about the United States.
[/quote]

not on the same levels

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Hassan' date='31 March 2010 - 05:16 PM' timestamp='1270077394' post='2084366']
America is lightyears ahead of Russia in terms of having an established, respected freemarket. American liberal politicians would be free market advocates in a Russian context[/quote]
America is in the process of dismantling its free market economy with massive federal bailouts. Get off your high horse, because it died some time ago.

[quote name='Hassan' date='31 March 2010 - 05:16 PM' timestamp='1270077394' post='2084366']
not on the same levels
[/quote]
America is no bastion of godliness. Regular attendance by Catholics at Mass in the United States is running in the mid 20 percent range.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='31 March 2010 - 07:14 PM' timestamp='1270077262' post='2084363']
Americans should be far more concerned about what is happening in our own country than about what is happening in Russia.[/quote]
You're the one talking a bit like a 19th century Russian slavophile

[quote] If any country is actively spreading immorality around the globe it is the United States that is doing it.
[/quote]
ok

[KnightofChrist]

The Blessed Mother asked for one thing, the Church did something like what she asked for but not what she asked. While she may have found what was done acceptable it would seem she would have liked what she asked for more. Since she was so direct and detailed about it when asking.

If Russia's errors were atheistic Communism/Socialism it's errors have seemed to spread very much indeed.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Hassan' date='31 March 2010 - 05:20 PM' timestamp='1270077652' post='2084373']
You're the one talking a bit like a 19th century Russian slavophile[/quote]
Not at all. I have not said that Russia is perfect; instead, I have only pointed out that there are changes occurring in Russian society, and that at least as far as religious freedom is concerned it is moving in a more positive direction than the United States. Economically Russia is also improving, but it has far to go, but so does the United States. Our economy is large, but it is not healthy by any means. Actual unemployment is at nearly 20 percent, and unemployment and underemployment when added together are running in the high 20 percent range.

May you have a happy spring holiday this coming friday.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='31 March 2010 - 07:19 PM' timestamp='1270077577' post='2084372']
America is in the process of dismantling its free market economy with massive federal bailouts. Get off your high horse, because it died some time ago.[/quote]

I'm not on a high horse. Russia is a petrol state. There is far more government market intervention and state control of industry. The bail outs occured in extraordinary circumstances with an understanding that goverent shares are temporary, that's not the case in Russia


[quote]America is no bastion of godliness. Regular attendance by Catholics at Mass in the United States is running in the mid 20 percent range.
[/quote]

that's still higher than than Russia and the national figure is more like 50%

[Saint Therese]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='31 March 2010 - 07:14 PM' timestamp='1270077262' post='2084363']
Americans should be far more concerned about what is happening in our own country than about what is happening in Russia. If any country is actively spreading immorality around the globe it is the United States that is doing it.
[/quote]

I agree.

[Apotheoun]

The fact that the United States government is going to double the existing debt of 12.5 trillion dollars to around 25 tillion dollars in the next 6 to 8 years speaks volumes about government over-reaching its proper role within society. It is the United States that is on course to become a "communist" country, not Russia. Moreover, the United States is not what it once was, and Americans had better wake up to reality before the massive national debt, and the unfunded liabilities of federal social programs in excess of 107 trillion dollars, which at this point does not even count the massive socialist health care reform just passed by Congress, destroys our economy and our personal liberties at the same time. We have more than enough of our own problems to worry about, and Russia is certainly not one of them.

What will Americans do when the dollar is no longer the international standard currency? America needs to get its own house in order, whether we are talking about socialist government expansion, the economy, or the state of the Church in this country, which is far from healthy. Russia hasn't caused any of the problems that we are experiencing; instead, we have brought them upon ourselves.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Hassan' date='31 March 2010 - 05:27 PM' timestamp='1270078029' post='2084380']
that's still higher than than Russia and the national figure is more like 50%
[/quote]
Surveys of people in Russia indicate that about 80 to 90 percent of people believe in God, which is comparable with surveys in the United States. Church attendance in America, which has been in constant decline for more then 40 years, and Church attendance in Russia are again comparable. Church attendance in Russia is higher than in France, and many other Western countries.

Edited March 31, 2010 by Apotheoun

[Hassan]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='31 March 2010 - 07:39 PM' timestamp='1270078791' post='2084391']
Surveys of people in Russia indicate that about 80 to 90 percent of people believe in God, which is comparable with surveys in the United States. Church attendance in America, which has been in constant decline for more then 40 years, and Church attendance in Russia are again comparable. Church attendance in Russia is higher than in France, and many other Western countries.
[/quote]


Monthly Church attendance. Not weekly, monthly, is somewhere between 1 and 10%.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Hassan' date='31 March 2010 - 05:45 PM' timestamp='1270079111' post='2084395']
Monthly Church attendance. Not weekly, monthly, is somewhere between 1 and 10%.
[/quote]
Russia had 70 years of official atheism, what is America's excuse.

The Russian Orthodox Church has opened over 30,000 Churches in the last twenty years, and has ordained about 35,000 clergy, while also opening over 800 monasteries. What has the American Catholic Church done in that same time period?

[Hassan]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='31 March 2010 - 07:36 PM' timestamp='1270078568' post='2084388']
The fact that the United States government is going to double the existing debt of 12.5 trillion dollars to around 25 tillion dollars in the next 6 to 8 years speaks volumes about government over-reaching its proper role within society. It is the United States that is on course to become a "communist" country, not Russia. Moreover, the United States is not what it once was, and Americans had better wake up to reality before the massive national debt, and the unfunded liabilities of federal social programs in excess of 107 trillion dollars, which at this point does not even count the massive socialist health care reform just passed by Congress, destroys our economy and our personal liberties at the same time. We have more than enough of our own problems to worry about, and Russia is certainly not one of them.

What will Americans do when the dollar is no longer the international standard currency? America needs to get its own house in order, whether we are talking about socialist government expansion, the economy, or the state of the Church in this country, which is far from healthy. Russia hasn't caused any of the problems that we are experiencing; instead, we have brought them upon ourselves.
[/quote]

I never, never, never ever even almost implied that Russia was causing any of America's problems. No one has said that as far as I can see. You're just back to your MO of making some asinine claim, bickering for a few posts, and then attacking strawmen that nobody argued for.

If you think that America is closer to embracing communism than Russia then you don't know a beaver dam thing about Russian politics. Neither country is going to embrace communism anytime soon, but Russia has a hell of a lot more warmth for communism and the good old days under Papa Jo, Хорошие дни, когда все было дешево и обильно! As one Borsch advertisement said. In this case "Хорошие дни" (the good days) refers to the days of communist rule.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='31 March 2010 - 07:50 PM' timestamp='1270079413' post='2084400']
Russia had 70 years of official atheism, what is America's excuse.[/QUOTE]

No excuse is needed. We are talking about comparative levels of religiosity, not who is morally culpable and who is not.

[QUOTE] What has the American Catholic Church done in that same time period?
[/quote]

Not seen levels of even morginal religious practice fall to almost non-existent levels?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Hassan' date='31 March 2010 - 05:53 PM' timestamp='1270079586' post='2084404']
I never, never, never ever even almost implied that Russia was causing any of America's problems. No one has said that as far as I can see.
[/quote]


The thread is about Russia spreading her errors . . . if she has not been properly consecrated! Are you drunk again?

Edited March 31, 2010 by Apotheoun

[Saint Therese]

I think what is happening to our country is a result of abortion and acceptance of immorality.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='31 March 2010 - 07:12 PM' timestamp='1270077153' post='2084358']
Russia is undergoing a religious revival, while the United States is in the process of "constitutionally" embracing socialism.


All of these things can also be said about the United States.
[/quote]
From my reading, these things are worse in Russia (and worse than in most other countries, for that matter).
I'm not saying things are wonderful in the U.S. - I just find your view of Russia unduly rosy.
Russia may have no way to go but up, however, while America is on the edge of a huge decline unless it radically changes direction.

Btw, the current embracing of socialism is blatantly unconstitutional.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Socrates' date='31 March 2010 - 06:23 PM' timestamp='1270081402' post='2084421']
Btw, the current embracing of socialism is blatantly unconstitutional.
[/quote]
Which is why I put the word constitutionally in scare quotes.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Socrates' date='31 March 2010 - 06:23 PM' timestamp='1270081402' post='2084421']
From my reading, these things are worse in Russia (and worse than in most other countries, for that matter).
I'm not saying things are wonderful in the U.S. - I just find your view of Russia unduly rosy.
Russia may have no way to go but up, however, while America is on the edge of a huge decline unless it radically changes direction.
[/quote]
Not rosy at all. Russia has its problems, but it is not going to be spreading those problems around the world. America is the real danger. It is the United States that is promoting hedonistic behavior and immorality, not Russia.

Alas, I think Americans have too rosy a picture of the United States. We are a bankrupt country, both financially and morally, and the day of reckoning is approaching while most Americans place their heads in the sand.

[charleseherring]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='31 March 2010 - 07:40 PM' timestamp='1270082405' post='2084428']
Not rosy at all. Russia has its problems, but it is not going to be spreading those problems around the world. America is the real danger. It is the United States that is promoting hedonistic behavior and immorality, not Russia.

Alas, I think Americans have too rosy a picture of the United States. We are a bankrupt country, both financially and morally, and the day of reckoning is approaching while most Americans place their heads in the sand.
[/quote]


i think my thread got hijacked... i never asked the state of america's colictive soul, i asked about the consecration of russia, if it happened or not, yes it has ramifications out side of that but the point is did it happen or not and how can i prove it happened, america is not as bad as you are making it sound btw, i fully belive that we can recover this country, God forbid that it takes a civil war, but if it does i know plenty who with sacrifice there lives for the greater good of righting this country.
“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure.” — Thomas Jefferson