Japan In Wwii

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' date='02 April 2010 - 03:43 PM' timestamp='1270237386' post='2085628']
Let's get away from any sort of conspiracy theories. I like to spit when I see Masons as much as the next Catholic (not exaggerating) but if you think Christians were targeted as part of a Mason plot you're 1. not addressing the topic and 2. [i]playing right into their hands[/i]
[/quote]
sometimes there are conspiracy theories that are "way out there.." but masonic influence on decisions during war are not one of them...

...i also tend to believe that conspiracy theories can actually help history, not hurt it. What is hidden comes to light...questions are asked...they may never be answered, but they are asked...

(I tend to believe Kennedy wasn't shot just with one bullet and one assassin...by the way...)

In light of the topic at hand, I just think it was important to point out the decision in picking the two cities was less than honorable...

Edited April 2, 2010 by dominicansoul

[CatherineM]

I also grew up next to a prime target. At school we were all issued metal dog tags to help identify our bodies.

[Saint Therese]

there are some that might argue the bombing of Hiroshama and Nagasaki weren't indiscriminate.

[Sternhauser]

There are some that might argue that torture is moral because it "could save millions of lives." Some of them are probably here.

~Sternhauser

Edited April 2, 2010 by Sternhauser

[dairygirl4u2c]

those who insist the bomb was the right thing, or tend to think it.
can you seriously say you think dropping smaller nukes, or dropping a major one in a non-populated area, wouldn't have caused the japanese to stop in their tracks, and quit, jsut the same? can you even say it wasn't worth a shot?
it'd have caused them to stop in their tracks, as much as what we did. and it'd have been at least worth a shot.

this 'oh they dropped leaflets' stuff, is jsut to make yourselves feel better. not all knew of it probably, mightve thought it rumor, or thought it just posturing by americans/ even if they are to blame for not believing us, we shouldnt fault them so much that we're okay to blow them up, when we could have done smaller things.

your guys' stubborness is probably sinful, here it's a matter of intention on your part, but your responses are so irrational stubborn stubborn etc as to border on purposeful defiance to reason, and thus, sin.
sure we can defer to the past judgement, or other things, or not judge, but call a spade a spade, and be willing to change your stance, when millions of lives are at stake. i8 used to support the bomb too. but i saw the light. this isn't just a theory, this is human life.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='dominicansoul' date='02 April 2010 - 06:28 PM' timestamp='1270243708' post='2085678']


In light of the topic at hand, I just think it was important to point out the decision in picking the two cities was less than honorable...
[/quote]
Wrong.
So you think we should avoid a military town because catholics live in it?
Seriously?

[dairygirl4u2c]

[quote name='Sternhauser' date='02 April 2010 - 06:27 PM' timestamp='1270247269' post='2085736']
There are some that might argue that torture is moral because it "could save millions of lives." Some of them are probably here.

~Sternhauser
[/quote]

in rare circumstances i think torture is moral. i think dr tiller should have been shot, at least at his clinic before an abortion, and probably even at his church as occurred. but even to someone like me--- senselessly killing japense is not moral, it's barbaric and unjustifiable. it's not about justifying the means or not, it's not about a utilitarian response to save many lives in a just war context. it'd have saved maybe a few US lives at best, but at teh cost of hundreds of thousand of japanese. when we could have atl east tried smaller nukes, and or nonpopulated bombs, just to show we can. to say we should have dropped it as occurred, is irrational.

Edited April 2, 2010 by dairygirl4u2c

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' date='02 April 2010 - 05:46 PM' timestamp='1270248375' post='2085745']
in rare circumstances i think torture is moral. i think dr tiller should have been shot, at least at his clinic before an abortion, and probably even at his church as occurred. but even to someone like me--- senselessly killing japense is not moral, it's barbaric and unjustifiable. it's not about justifying the means or not, it's not about a utilitarian response to save many lives in a just war context. it'd have saved maybe a few US lives at best, but at teh cost of hundreds of thousand of japanese. when we could have atl east tried smaller nukes, and or nonpopulated bombs, just to show we can. to say we should have dropped it as occurred, is irrational.
[/quote]

Torture is intrinsically immoral because it is an attempt to coerce the free will. It is therefore a direct contradiction of human nature.

Until you accept that certain acts are always and intrinsically immoral, you will never be able to effectively argue that deliberately killing civilians in any number, and by any means, is immoral.

~Sternhauser

Edited April 2, 2010 by Sternhauser

[dairygirl4u2c]

why blow up two? they could have even blew up one city. once they did... that we could blow up another is a given, probably. at least, we should have waited and let them figure out what to do. why stop at three? they didn't surrender the second we dropped the second one etiher, though it was soon after. why didn't we nix ten cities? or twenty? there was no need for two. there wasn't even a need for one.

[dairygirl4u2c]

[quote name='Sternhauser' date='02 April 2010 - 06:50 PM' timestamp='1270248645' post='2085747']
Torture is intrinsically immoral because it is an attempt to coerce the free will. It is therefore a direct contradiction of human nature.

Until you accept that certain acts are always and intrinsically immoral, you will never be able to effectively argue that deliberately killing civilians in any number, and by any means, is immoral.

~Sternhauser
[/quote]

your second paragraph is illogical

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' date='02 April 2010 - 05:51 PM' timestamp='1270248662' post='2085748']
why blow up two? they could have even blew up one city. once they did... that we could blow up another is a given, probably. at least, we should have waited and let them figure out what to do. why stop at three? they didn't surrender the second we dropped the second one etiher, though it was soon after. why didn't we nix ten cities? or twenty? there was no need for two. there wasn't even a need for one.
[/quote]

MacArthur agreed with you. So did Halsey, Nimitz and Spaatz.

~Sternhauser

[CatherineM]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' date='02 April 2010 - 05:51 PM' timestamp='1270248662' post='2085748']
why blow up two? they could have even blew up one city. once they did... that we could blow up another is a given, probably. at least, we should have waited and let them figure out what to do. why stop at three? they didn't surrender the second we dropped the second one etiher, though it was soon after. why didn't we nix ten cities? or twenty? there was no need for two. there wasn't even a need for one.
[/quote]
They only had three working bombs, so they couldn't have dropped more than three. I suspect they dropped two because they didn't want to use up the last one just in case.

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='dominicansoul' date='02 April 2010 - 06:14 PM' timestamp='1270242889' post='2085669']
we weren't there...but the Catholic Church was...how can you say that Her teachings only work "in an ideal world?"
[/quote]
very, very easily. Pat answers from the Catechism don't address the issues that come up when people are killing each other.

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='Sternhauser' date='02 April 2010 - 07:27 PM' timestamp='1270247269' post='2085736']
There are some that might argue that torture is moral because it "could save millions of lives." Some of them are probably here.

~Sternhauser
[/quote]
You are insufferably pompous in tone, and if you tried a little harder to soften your words people might like you and take your informed points.
To reiterate my previous questions, how would you have prosecuted war against the Japanese? What is the moral way to fight a war?

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='Sternhauser' date='02 April 2010 - 07:52 PM' timestamp='1270248764' post='2085750']
MacArthur agreed with you. So did Halsey, Nimitz and Spaatz.

~Sternhauser
[/quote]
I mean, really. Throw a smiley in there once in a while.