Muslims Try To Pray In Spanish Cathedral

[Formosus]

[quote name='kenrockthefirst' date='02 April 2010 - 10:02 AM' timestamp='1270213354' post='2085488']
[url="http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/04/02/world/AP-EU-Spain-Religious-Scuffle.html?_r=1"]Muslims Try to Pray in Spanish Cathedral[/url]

How about this? They can pray in the cathedral when Christians are permitted to pray in the Hagia Sophia.
[/quote]

Exactly! If they want their mosque back, I am more then willing to accept it so long as the Hagia Sophia is returned to Byzantine worship. Or another good trade would be to get the church which contains the head of John the Baptist. Perhaps we can go for a two for one deal? OR they could just give us back all our churches they stole in the Levant

[Semper Catholic]

Sure is Islamophobia in here.

These were a bunch of Muslims from Austria. Probably more then a few whites in there. Believe it or not not all Muslims like to blow things up for Allah.

You should be ashamed.

I doubt Jesus would care if a man, woman, or child wanted to peacefully pray anywhere let alone a Church.

[Formosus]

I don't have any fear of Islam or Muslims for that matter. I just find their theft of our Holy places to be appalling. If they want their mosque in Spain back, I only think its fair to ask for our churches to be returned to us.

[Slappo]

[quote name='Semper Catholic' date='07 April 2010 - 09:56 PM' timestamp='1270702582' post='2089052']
Sure is Islamophobia in here.

These were a bunch of Muslims from Austria. Probably more then a few whites in there. Believe it or not not all Muslims like to blow things up for Allah.

You should be ashamed.

I doubt Jesus would care if a man, woman, or child wanted to peacefully pray anywhere let alone a Church.
[/quote]

peacefully pray sounds good, but to the Saints, angels and the Trinity are not the only sources to whom people pray.

Surely Jesus would care if someone were to pray to a fallen angel such as Satan.

[Maximilianus]

[quote name='Semper Catholic' date='08 April 2010 - 01:56 AM' timestamp='1270702582' post='2089052']
Sure is Islamophobia in here.
[/quote]

Isn't that Def Leppard's third album?

Edited April 8, 2010 by Maximilianus

[Didacus]

Allright, this is contrary to most comments on this board but here's my thoughts.

If muslims worship, like we do, the one God of Abraham, I would think that God would be sad if any faithful prayer was interupted that was intended for Him.

On another hand, if the muslims were simply trying to make a political point, then I don't believe the 'prayer' would have been pleasing to God in the least.

That been said, I believe the muslims visiting the site should have been respectful of the customs and laws of the nation they were visiting and kept they prayfulness discreet and respectful rather than making a scene out of the circumstance. It seems to me that someone faithfully praying to God would not place this much importnace on the location of the prayer and would just as well pray in a hotel room than in a church or other.

But that's just me...

[dominicansoul]

I think if we started allowing people to come into our places of worship and worship however they want, then all our churches will become places where "anything goes." Just check out the liturgies in Los Angeles...

As far as this muslim group is concerned, they need to s.uck up their pride, and realize that the sign out front says, Catedral de Nuestra Señora de la Asunción...CATHOLIC cathedral...

Edited April 8, 2010 by dominicansoul

[kenrockthefirst]

[quote name='Semper Catholic' date='08 April 2010 - 12:56 AM' timestamp='1270702582' post='2089052']
Sure is Islamophobia in here.

These were a bunch of Muslims from Austria. Probably more then a few whites in there. Believe it or not not all Muslims like to blow things up for Allah.

You should be ashamed.

I doubt Jesus would care if a man, woman, or child wanted to peacefully pray anywhere let alone a Church.
[/quote]
This isn't about Muslims [i]per se[/i]; it's about the bullying and hectoring that we in the West have to endure vis-a-vis being "respectful" and "tolerant" of Muslims and Islamic religious practice while Christians literally take their lives in their hands when they try to worship freely in majority Muslim countries. Why can there be a mosque in Rome but a Catholic can't even so much as openly wear a crucifix in Saudi Arabia?

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='kenrockthefirst' date='08 April 2010 - 09:25 AM' timestamp='1270733103' post='2089164']
This isn't about Muslims [i]per se[/i]; it's about the bullying and hectoring that we in the West have to endure vis-a-vis being "respectful" and "tolerant" of Muslims and Islamic religious practice while Christians literally take their lives in their hands when they try to worship freely in majority Muslim countries. Why can there be a mosque in Rome but a Catholic can't even so much as openly wear a crucifix in Saudi Arabia?
[/quote]

EXACTLY.

Oh, and I love it when someone voices a protest against Islam and gets called an "Islamophobic." Sorry, not all of us follow the PC culture.

[Selah]

[quote]It's a great idea except that Christians don't force their religion on others[/quote]

I guess you've never met a hardcore fundie street preacher, have you?

[Lumiere]

[quote name='cruciatacara' date='06 April 2010 - 09:25 PM' timestamp='1270603537' post='2088088']
Jesus threw the moneychangers out of the temple. I wonder how he would have handled muslims who came to pray there - I know the laws forbid this but I just wonder what he would have thought about it all - interesting idea.
[/quote]

Seeing as how the Muslims pray to Jesus' father, the God of Abraham, our God and father, I think he would be more welcoming than the people who have commented on this post have been thus far.

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='Selah' date='09 April 2010 - 11:43 AM' timestamp='1270770182' post='2089598']
[quote]It's a great idea except that Christians don't force their religion on others[/quote]
I guess you've never met a hardcore fundie street preacher, have you?
[/quote]

I suppose I should have specified that it is [u]a principle of Christianity[/u] but of course you are correct there are 'Christians' who try to coerce people into what they deem is correct. How many denominations frequently attack Catholicism? No doubt the work of satan to try to lead people away from the true faith! So yes there are many good Christians who don't follow Christ's teaching.

Edited April 9, 2010 by Mark of the Cross

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Lumiere' date='08 April 2010 - 08:14 PM' timestamp='1270772048' post='2089612']
Seeing as how the Muslims pray to Jesus' father, the God of Abraham, our God and father, I think he would be more welcoming than the people who have commented on this post have been thus far.
[/quote]

Except they explicitly reject the Holy Trinity by believing that God is One Person, not Three - the Catholic Church teaches that the God of Abraham is in reality Three Persons. If you told a Muslim that he was inadvertently worshiping Jesus Christ, he would deny it and say that Allah is one, not three in one.

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='09 April 2010 - 01:01 PM' timestamp='1270774878' post='2089655']
Except they explicitly reject the Holy Trinity by believing that God is One Person, not Three - the Catholic Church teaches that the God of Abraham is in reality Three Persons. If you told a Muslim that he was inadvertently worshiping Jesus Christ, he would deny it and say that Allah is one, not three in one.
[/quote]

Well... but can you say for sure that there is a difference, just because the description is different. As I understand it we cannot explain the trinity, so just considering one God is not really saying he isn't three or for that matter if you count all the souls with Jesus in them he could be billions.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' date='08 April 2010 - 09:33 PM' timestamp='1270776806' post='2089681']
Well... but can you say for sure that there is a difference, just because the description is different. As I understand it we cannot explain the trinity, so just considering one God is not really saying he isn't three or for that matter if you count all the souls with Jesus in them he could be billions.
[/quote]

Muslims blatantly reject the Divinity of Jesus Christ and the Holy Trinity.

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='09 April 2010 - 01:41 PM' timestamp='1270777287' post='2089686']
Muslims blatantly reject the Divinity of Jesus Christ and the Holy Trinity.
[/quote]

Yes I agree that that is a major difference and is why we don't see each other at Mass on Sunday, but being more direct. If someone says that their God says to behead infidels unless they commit to Islam, then I would conclude that their God is in fact satan. But if someone says that their God teaches love and kindness and all things good and that evil is bad then I should think not only have they described our God but he must in fact be the same God since both agree that their can be but one. And I think stereotyping any group by the behaviour of a minority is something which we should endeavour to avoid. There are enough evil people in the world to dislike without including good people just because of some tag that associates them. Very few priests are paedophiles, it's only the media that makes it seem like Catholicism is sexually depraved.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' date='08 April 2010 - 10:02 PM' timestamp='1270778571' post='2089690']
If someone says that their God says to behead infidels unless they commit to Islam, then I would conclude that their God is in fact satan. [/quote]

[quote] But if someone says that their God teaches love and kindness and all things good and that evil is bad then I should think not only have they described our God but he must in fact be the same God since both agree that their can be but one.
[/quote]

A Muslim who fully adheres to the teachings and practices of Muhammad would agree with your first quote. A Muslim who is "modern" or "liberal" (also called "Westernized") would agree with your second.

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='09 April 2010 - 02:08 PM' timestamp='1270778935' post='2089698']
A Muslim who fully adheres to the teachings and practices of Muhammad would agree with your first quote.
[/quote]

I upset some Muslims with a query about this and was [u]kindly[/u] asked to withdraw it. I assumed they deny it since they were so offended by the suggestion, maybe I was talking to your 'Westernised Muslims'. Can you give some reference to a valid source supporting your claim?

[Maximilianus]

[quote name='Lumiere' date='08 April 2010 - 09:14 PM' timestamp='1270772048' post='2089612']
Seeing as how the Muslims pray to Jesus' father, the God of Abraham, our God and father, I think he would be more welcoming than the people who have commented on this post have been thus far.
[/quote]

Rastafarians, Mormons, JW, and Westboro Baptist pray to the God of Abraham. Lets let the Rastafarians smoke some ganga while the priest incenses the altar, or let Fred Phelps give a sermon at your local Cathedral.

It is a Catholic Cathedral for Catholic worship an non-Catholics should recognize and respect this. It's not mean or uncharitable to point that out, it's common sense.

I would say the same thing if this story was about a bunch of Catholics wanting to pray at the Lala Mustafa Pasa mosque in Famagusta (formerly St. Patrick's Cathedral).

Edited April 9, 2010 by Maximilianus

[JustJump]

I'm not big on all the PC croutons now a days either.

But to me it's a simply matter of treating others the way you want to be treated. I have no problem if a Muslim wanted to pray in a Cathedral. (I do agree that pulling out a mat and the likes is a bit much and that'd it be fine to ask them not to do that.)

But honestly I think it's ridiculus to say that Muslims worship satan. Sure there are extremists and fundamentalists out there, just like there are in every religion. And yes, currently I'd say there are a lot of extremists and fundamentalists in Islam, but they are not a majority. I think that needs to be kept in mind. Muslims believe in one God, the God of Abraham. They believe that Mohommad was the final prophet. I don't understand how that is worshipping satan? Any Muslim that hurts someone else, just like any Christian, in the name of God, is obviously not following God.