Is It Time To Lower The Drinking Age?

[Marie-Therese]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='26 April 2010 - 12:30 PM' timestamp='1272299444' post='2100353']
I propose a parade in Peyton's honour.
[img]http://news.getaroom.com/wp-content/uploads/macys-thanksgiving-day-parade.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.lakotawestbands.org/photos/RoseParadeSpinazzola.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

I give you many thanks. I make you Grand Marshall.

[Socrates]

[quote name='havok579257' date='24 April 2010 - 09:47 PM' timestamp='1272160049' post='2099479']
the entire country must make guns illegal. also the penalties for having guns need to be majorily upgraded. if you make the penlties for having a gun severe enough, it will reduce the number of people who carry illegal guns. without both of these, its not possible.
[/quote]
First, you'd have to completely overturn the second amendment to the Constitution guaranteeing the right of the people to keep and bear arms, and blatantly oppose the vision of the founding fathers (see my [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=441&view=findpost&p=2098110"]list of quotes from the founding fathers on guns in the "Guns, Guns, Guns" thread[/url].)

"Arms in the hands of the citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defense of the country, the overthrow of tyranny or private self-defense."
John Adams (1735-1826) Founding Father, 2nd US President A Defense of the Constitution of Government of the United States of America, 1788


[quote name='havok579257' date='24 April 2010 - 09:49 PM' timestamp='1272160143' post='2099482']
just making guns illegal does not work. strict penalties need to be added to deter illegal gun use. throwing someone in jail for illegally having a gun for say 5 years would be a great deterant.
[/quote]
I can assure you that most of the millions of a law-abiding American citizens who own guns will not willingly hand their guns over to the government. By criminalizing a constitutionally-guaranteed right to self-defense, the government would have to waste time and resources going after ordinary gun-owning citizens, and would thus be less effective at apprehending actual violent criminals.

[quote name='havok579257' date='25 April 2010 - 12:11 AM' timestamp='1272168683' post='2099571']
what i purposed has NEVER been done in history. so their is no historical arguements for it or against it. no state has ever completely outlawed guns and added very strict punishments (numerous years in prison) for owning illegal guns.[/quote]
Nazi Germany and most Communist governments come to mind.
A disarmed populace fits quite well with the goals of tyrannical governments.

But I suppose the enforcement of laws disarming private citizens in those regimes were far too lenient for Havok's standards - they'd require an [i]even more[/i] large and totalitarian police-state.

"A people armed and free forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition and is a bulwark for the nation against foreign invasion and domestic oppression."
~ James Madison (1751-1836), Father of the Constitution for the USA, 4th US President


[quote]the most states have done it make some guns illegal but other were legal. or they have only made it illegal not to have a permit for a gun. although again, their penalties are not on the level i am talking about.


i never said criminals will not own guns, because if someone wants one bad enough and is will to kill and rape for something, they can probobly get it. what i am saying is it will drastically reduce the number of guns in the hands of criminals and the crime rate will decrease and so will criminals on the street.

[/quote]
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." ~ Thomas Jefferson

[quote name='havok579257' date='25 April 2010 - 02:07 AM' timestamp='1272175659' post='2099640']
enforcing strict laws on appropriote crimes is not a police state. is it wrong for me to want a rapist or child molester locked up for 25 years? is that to much of a police state? are the current laws better which let them out as soon as a year in some cases? if your a criminal, then you should go to jail and do your time.

a person is not a law abiding citizen if he chooses to break the law. if guns are illegal and he chooses to own a gun then he is actively choosing to break the law. same with drugs or anything else that is illegal. i would have no sympathy for a person who actively chooses to break the law. he knows what the law is. yet he choses to break it. if he doesn't want to follow those laws either suffer the consequences or move somewhere else. why do you have so much sympathy for someone who would be choosing to break the law?

so now with strciter laws on gun control crime will INCREASE. ok, now your going overboard. yes, it would increase the penal system and taxes would go up for that. but rarely do people (except the extreme liberals) complain about increasing taxes for the public saftey. i doubt the vast majority would complain if theire taxes were raised to put more cops on the street and better enforce crimes. unless you honestly think people would rather have less taxes and less public saftey. one of the few things people will complain about is increased taxes to better protect the citizens of the country.

taking away guns does not take away civil liberties if its to protect its citizens.[/quote]
I guess I'm an "extreme liberal" then.
Though last I checked, it was conservatives that were for lower taxes and smaller, constitutionally-checked government, and liberals that think increased taxation and spending and expanded government power will fix whatever ails us.
Makes me wonder what "conservatives" and "liberals" you hang out with.

But I'll simply leave you with this quote to ponder:

[b]"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."[/b]
~ Benjamin Franklin

Edited April 27, 2010 by Socrates

[Winchester]

[quote name='havok579257' date='25 April 2010 - 02:07 AM' timestamp='1272175659' post='2099640']
so now with strciter laws on gun control crime will INCREASE. ok, now your going overboard. [/quote]
Higher gun control equals more violent crime because it disarms the law abiding. It might make criminals less likely to own a weapon, but you'd better make your entire city out of Nerf.

I have a right to defend my life and the government has no right to forbid me from carrying a gun. If you want to live in a nation that violates your right to self defense, there are a few out there. Australia's a nice place, I've heard.

[loveletslive]

in my experiences...a higher drinking age just makes alcohol an even bigger deal and a more desirable substance. so yes, i think it should be lowered.

[StMichael]

If you can hold a gun and die for this country at the age of 18, you should be able to have a drink.

If you can vote for the President at the age of 18, you sure as heck can open up a can of beer.

We need to lower the age of being responsible or should I say an adult. You are a man at the age of 18, but some think, Obambi included, that you are still a child until you are 26. Insane.

Lets pull reports on drunk drivers and fatalities, yes we will find young, but you will find plenty of 35+ as well. Doesn't matter your age, an idiot is an idiot.

[SaintOfVirtue]

[quote name='StMichael' date='07 May 2010 - 08:44 PM' timestamp='1273290271' post='2106650']
We need to lower the age of being responsible or should I say an adult. You are a man at the age of 18, but some think, Obambi included, that you are still a child until you are 26. Insane.
[/quote]

Yeah, I thought Obama was being stupid when he said that. I believe you can become a congressman at age 25.