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15 Signs Of Trouble


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I know that we sometimes see questions about new communities on Vocation Station. This list comes from the International Cultic Studies Association (cheery name, huh) and gives a run down of what cano

As red flags in religious communities were mentioned in another thread I am, yet again, bumping this one.  If anyone knows of other warning signs that things arent good please share them here, not to

If the community says it's not possible to have a live-in experience, that you simply "must trust in God", be wary. Even many of the most conservative, traditional, cloistered communities allow this.

Thank you for posting this, Elizabeth. I think it's very good for discerners to have a healthy concept of what religious life should be, particularly in a new community. This list seems very balanced, and views religious life in a positive light.

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Thank you so much for posting this. Excellent, excellent points!

I wish I had seen this list when I first began discerning back in the day. :)

Edited by laetitia crucis
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[quote name='laetitia crucis' date='26 April 2010 - 03:13 PM' timestamp='1272316416' post='2100580']
Thank you so much for posting this. Excellent, excellent points!

I wish I had seen this list when I first began discerning back in the day. :)
[/quote]

:yes:

What she said; I have actually run into a group like this :ohno: but they have had to change drastically in recent years.


God has a reason for everything ... :)

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Thanks for posting this Lillibet!

It's sad to think that there could be "cultish" behavior in a Catholic community, but I guess the devil uses whatever means he can, including a weak or troubled human being.

It's too bad that there has to be "The International Cultic Studies Association," but I'm glad these organizations exist. One of my high school classmates was the daughter of Congressman Ryan, who was murdered by cult members a number of years ago when he went down to investigate Jim Jones and his cult. Last I heard, my classmate was living in Washington, D.C. and working with another organization that studies cults and works to prevent their damage.



[size="1"]17th sign of trouble--They DON'T like Bunchie.[/size]

Edited by IgnatiusofLoyola
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Wow!

Part of me wishes I had seen this before joining the community that I did. But part of me is glad I had to learn the hard way, because I can vouch for the truth of all those points.

Good post. It's so hard when, even here at VS, groups are promoted who unfortunately fit some of those categories. It's so important to constantly represent what the Church really teaches, and not what some group's opinion of what the Church [i]should[/i] teach is!

God post!

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Another element of a community that I see is unhealthy, is that requirement of the community in The Nun's Story where they insist that the sisters erase their memories of their past outside of the convent.

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[quote name='tinytherese' date='27 April 2010 - 02:35 PM' timestamp='1272396908' post='2101044']
Another element of a community that I see is unhealthy, is that requirement of the community in The Nun's Story where they insist that the sisters erase their memories of their past outside of the convent.
[/quote]

Please forgive my ignorance, but I would have expected that some Orders, even today, (particularly cloistered or other strict Orders) would discourage talking or dwelling on the past, and instead encourage the community to concentrate on their current life. Certainly it seems that many (most?) Orders, (again particularly the cloistered Orders), limit the amount of contact that Postulants and Novices (and perhaps professed nuns, as well) have with their families, friends, and perhaps others in the outside world. I have no idea what current practice is.

But, one example I've seen at times is a tendency to talk about how long a nun/sister has been in the Order, more often than her actual age.

I know this is a big question, and the answer is probably, "It differs a lot by Order," but tinytherese has brought up a good issue. I was under the impression that at least some established, respected Orders, particularly Cloistered ones, continue to discourage discussion of one's past life and limit contact with family, but perhaps not to the extent of the community in The Nun's Story or other pre-Vatican II communities. Or am I wrong about this?

Also, from the little I've read about Orthodox nuns, it would seem that they continue to follow the practice of essentially renouncing their past life, and the family expects that they will have little to no future contact with their daughter.

If this is too big a question, we can make it its own thread so we don't hijack this thread. Thanks for bringing up this issue, tinyterese.

Edited by IgnatiusofLoyola
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[quote name='tinytherese' date='27 April 2010 - 03:35 PM' timestamp='1272396908' post='2101044']
Another element of a community that I see is unhealthy, is that requirement of the community in The Nun's Story where they insist that the sisters erase their memories of their past outside of the convent.
[/quote]

I did read that book, though I don't remember that part. Was it in the book, or only the movie?

No communities that I know of do that today. There is really no discouragement from talking about the past, either, you just have to keep it in moderation and focus on the fact that you're called to live in the present moment.

In fact, I don't even know if that is factual before Vatican II.

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[quote name='Totus Tuus' date='27 April 2010 - 05:40 PM' timestamp='1272400832' post='2101075']

No communities that I know of do that today. There is really no discouragement from talking about the past, either, you just have to keep it in moderation and focus on the fact that you're called to live in the present moment.

[/quote]


Yes. Like talking a lot about your previous boyfriends for example, would generally not be a good idea. Talking about how your parents rented a pony for your 10th birthday, and you thought it was a pony for keeps but it wasn't, but somehow you got over the horrible devastation ... that would be more okay.

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[quote name='Lilllabettt' date='27 April 2010 - 03:46 PM' timestamp='1272401162' post='2101082']
Yes. Like talking a lot about your previous boyfriends for example, would generally not be a good idea. Talking about how your parents rented a pony for your 10th birthday, and you thought it was a pony for keeps but it wasn't, but somehow you got over the horrible devastation ... that would be more okay.
[/quote]

Thanks to everyone for all the information. I'm pleased to hear that talking about the past is not forbidden, even in cloistered orders. Little by little I'm coming to realize that nuns/sisters are human, too.

Now, if all the Orders didn't get up so early in the morning--or the middle of the night! I understand the reason for it--that it's not just a random fascination with watching the sun rise. But, even when I was 20, I don't think I would have been able to train my body to get up at 5:00 am--much less the middle of the night--or to get by on 6 or 7 hours of sleep. I literally would not be able to function. (I DO have a sleep disorder, it's not just me being a princess. LOL At minimum, it makes it easy to discern where I am NOT called.)

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