15 Signs Of Trouble

[Gabriela]

If the community says it's not possible to have a live-in experience, that you simply "must trust in God", be wary. Even many of the most conservative, traditional, cloistered communities allow this.

If the community answers a lot of questions with, "That is something that's mutually discerned between the sister and the [superior/novice mistress/whoever] if that should ever come up", be wary. Of course, some questions will always be answered this way. But if you feel you're getting this answer so often that it doesn't seem like you're really getting any information or getting a clear picture of how life progresses or is lived inside the community, then go elsewhere.

In general, if you feel that the community is hiding or withholding information, run. Don't let anyone convince you that you need to be kept in the dark to "learn to trust in God".

[PhuturePriest]

On 3/2/2016, 1:15:52, Spem in alium said:

I think if the members of the community are hesitant to talk about their charism, constitutions or procedures with a discerner, that could be a problem. Of course, some things can't be known until later in formation, but if a person has questions I think they should be answered. I was even able to read some of my congregation's constitutions before I entered, which really amazed me. It was a sign that sisters were open and actually wanted me to grow in my knowledge and discern properly.

One other point: I think it's really good to look at how members of the community relate to one another. Do they respect each other? Do some of them argue? Do they seem happy to be in one another's company? If you go into discernment (or even enter religious life) with the view that it's all going to be nice and rosy, and that sisters, brothers, whoever can't possibly argue or disagree on things by virtue of their vocation, you are on the wrong track and will likely be sorely disappointed! The fact of the matter is, consecrated persons are still human -- they still get angry, sad, frustrated, impatient. It's good as a discerner to look for these things, to notice interactions, and, importantly, not to be deterred by argument. One of my sisters mentioned that when she first met a couple of sisters from my congregation, they would often be fighting with one another...clearly, it didn't deter her - and it shouldn't!

The community I discerned with gave me their full constitutions while I was on my week-long live-in. I didn't like them very much while I was there since I was an overly dramatic twat and struggled to distinguish between communal issues and personal differences in spirituality, but looking back and looking at the list of red flags they're a healthy and solid community.

[Sister Leticia]

I can't speak for all Provinces of the Society, but here in England we don't give our full Constitutions to a discerner, and in fact RSCJ only receive our own copy of the Constitutions when we become novices. That's a special moment, denoting a new phase, fuller incorporation and a new responsibility. The Constitutions as a whole are our Rule of Life, something we spend our initial formation studying and our whole lives reflecting on and trying to live in the spirit of. In addition, they contain things such as canonical norms, stuff about governance etc which might need to be explained and only really make sense when you're in the Society learning about these things.

We've put together a small booklet with some extracts, so discerners can get a flavour of our spirit and spirituality. The VD gives these to discerners and when they meet they can reflect on what they've read and whether it resonates with them. And of course there are quotes on our website and shared via social media.

I don't think a discerner has ever asked us for a copy of the full Constitutions. Certainly before I entered it never occurred to me to ask (and the booklet wasn't available then) - I was aware they existed and had seen a few quotes on the vocations literature, but I wasn't curious about what else they might contain.

And for the record, we also happen to be healthy and stable as a congregation, with a good, solid formation, and are very open with discerners, willing to share a great deal and answer all sorts of questions - but not our Constitutions. A discerner can wait for those until she's entered and receives her own copy in her hands, given by the Provincial.

So I don't think people can say the availability or otherwise of Constitutions equals a red flag.

[Nunsuch]

As Sister Leticia reminds us--"it depends on the community." I have had the privilege of meeting many members of her congregation from England and around the world, having attended a conference at Digby-Stuart College in London in 2014 (for the centennial of the death of Janet Erskine Stuart). The RSCJs ("The Society") are certainly a stable and admirable congregation.

On the other hand, the congregation in which I am an Associate puts its full constitution on the "private" side of its website, and it is available to those in all stages of formation for vowed membership, as well as to those in formation as Associates. In fact, we are to study the constitutions even as preparation for making promises as Associates.  

[Spem in alium]

3 hours ago, PhuturePriest said:

The community I discerned with gave me their full constitutions while I was on my week-long live-in. I didn't like them very much while I was there since I was an overly dramatic twat and struggled to distinguish between communal issues and personal differences in spirituality, but looking back and looking at the list of red flags they're a healthy and solid community.

I think perhaps the vocations director even offered the constitutions to me when I looked through them, instead of me asking to see them.  We read from our constitutions every day during prayer, so I am learning more about them as I go. I do not, however, have my own copy, nor have I read them in full, as they are received at first profession of vows.

 

56 minutes ago, Nunsuch said:

On the other hand, the congregation in which I am an Associate puts its full constitution on the "private" side of its website, and it is available to those in all stages of formation for vowed membership, as well as to those in formation as Associates. In fact, we are to study the constitutions even as preparation for making promises as Associates.  

That's a really nice idea!

[quovadisjess]

@Lilllabettt is it possible to personally message you about specific questions I'm still wrestling with re: a particular order I spent the summer with? Still working on healing, but it seems we don't speak publicly about particular orders here on the forum. 

Edited December 6, 2019 by quovadisjess

[Lilllabettt]

23 hours ago, quovadisjess said:

@Lilllabettt is it possible to personally message you about specific questions I'm still wrestling with re: a particular order I spent the summer with? Still working on healing, but it seems we don't speak publicly about particular orders here on the forum. 

Yes. For sure.

[nikita92]

Lilllabettt- Every time I see your profile pic of the actress "Alex Kingston" I am reminded of "ER"! LOL 

[Lilllabettt]

13 hours ago, nikita92 said:

Lilllabettt- Every time I see your profile pic of the actress "Alex Kingston" I am reminded of "ER"! LOL 

I remember her on ER where she married poor Mark Green. This picture is actually from a role she played on Dr. Who - River Song. I was once a huge Dr Who fan, and she was my favorite character on that show. I am curly and also aspire to kick buttdom. 

[nikita92]

On 12/15/2019 at 12:41 PM, Lilllabettt said:

I remember her on ER where she married poor Mark Green. This picture is actually from a role she played on Dr. Who - River Song. I was once a huge Dr Who fan, and she was my favorite character on that show. I am curly and also aspire to kick buttdom. 

 

My profile pic is of Dame Katherine "Patricia Routledge", DBE is a British actress, comedian and singer. She is best known for her role as Hyacinth Bucket (pronounced "Bouquet") in the BBC sitcom "Keeping Up Appearances", for which she was nominated for the BAFTA TV Award for Best Light Entertainment Performance in 1992 and 1993

She is a major benefactor of The Dominican Community  "Our Lady of Consolation" of the Stanbrook Abby monastery in the Uk

Speaking of Stanbrook Abby- I have copied a snippet from what Sister Letica said in a post dated Oct of 2017

 "Here in the UK we have a great example of this: Stanbrook Abbey, the monastery on which Rumer Godden based "In this House of Brede". Until about 10 years ago 30-40 nuns were rattling around in a HUGE old monastery which originally housed 100, and no doubt cost a fortune to heat and maintain. Now they live in a smaller, purpose-built eco-friendly monastery with a stunning chapel and views" - https://www.stanbrookabbey.org.uk/ 

 

[Hna.Caridad]

 

Bumping for @BenedictaAugustine because this is a priceless thread.  Red flags are glaringly obvious for those who've learned to see and recognize them.  They tend to be invisible to those who've been raised to think that every color is blue or that everything waving in the air is a pinwheel.  It's critical that anyone discerning Religious Life or marriage develop the ability to recognize red flags BEFORE they decide to enter into a relationship with a person or with a community.  Regarding recognizing red flags in congregations, this thread is a good place to start.