Communion W/out Confession

[mortify]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' date='06 June 2010 - 02:05 PM' timestamp='1275847543' post='2124643']
I happened across an article "Virtue and Vice" in this month's "Columbia" magazine by Bishop William Lori. He writes, "Mortal sins ... deprive us of sanctifying grace. If we fail to repent of them, we risk losing eternal life." It had been my understanding that mortal sin -- which only God can judge -- definitely causes the loss of eternal life, but he doesn't word it that way. One can lose sanctifying grace while still losing justification.[/quote]

Why do you think only God can judge mortal sin? Mortal sin is objective, as in Murder is a mortal sin. Maybe there are mitigating factors that can decrease culpability, but mortal sin remains mortal sin.

And my understanding has always been that a loss of sanctifying grace is a loss of justification.

[quote]The thing I've always struggled to "get" is how one can be expected to seek the sacrament of Reconciliation if they are totally cut off from grace[/quote]

They're not cut off from all grace, just the grace that sanctifies. Actual grace is still readily available, and it is the grace that makes us feel remorse for sin and motivates us to seek reconciliation.

[quote]but a Catholic could have mortal sin on their soul and still be justified, so by that grace he would seek Reconciliation and restored to sanctifying grace.
[/quote]

Mortal sin deprives a person of justification.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='06 June 2010 - 01:30 PM' timestamp='1275849050' post='2124655']
From what I understand, grave sin is not the same as mortal sin. One can commit grave sin without having full knowledge and/or full consent, and the sin is venial.

Edit: Or am I confusing "grave sin" with "grave matter"?

Edit again: I pretty much said what Rex just said. I think.
[/quote]

I think there is a fine distinction between a "grave sin" and a "sin of grave matter". "Grave sin" is completely synonymous to "mortal sin." On the other hand a "sin of grave matter" could either be a mortal sin/grave sin (if committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent), or it could be a venial sin (if not committed with full knowledge or deliberate consent.

Basically, there are only two categories of sins: mortal/grave and venial. A sin of grave matter is usually a mortal/grave sin, but, due to lack of knowledge or consent, it can sometimes be a venial sin.

Edited June 6, 2010 by Resurrexi

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='fides' Jack' date='26 May 2010 - 03:32 PM' timestamp='1274844739' post='2117989']
I agree with you, Resurrexi, in that people shouldn't (under any circumstance I can possibly imagine) ever go to Communion in a state of Mortal Sin. My point was that what was said in this forum, (that the intention to confess is sufficient to be forgiven) is flawed.

However, it is not necessary to have perfect contrition to be forgiven of mortal sin. Very few people ever have perfect contrition throughout their lives. Imperfect contrition is sufficient. BUT - that doesn't mean they can then go to Communion - far from it. They should [i]try[/i] to make an act of perfect contrition, and then refrain from receiving Communion until they have gone first to Confession.
[/quote]

Oops responded to a dated post. Sorry!
What do you mean by imperfect contrition? You are either sorry or you are not! There are times when I wish I had never been born and been such a failure and an insult to God, but then he has a purpose for me which I must fulfil. How sorry do you need to be for being a sinner (human) for it to be considered perfect. Only God can attain perfection, man cannot, that's why he had to become human to show us how to deal with our imperfections.
One cannot place enough emphasis on the importance of the sacraments but there always has to be a loop hole for those grey area's. E.G. A person is dying, there is a minister of the Eucharist but no priest. Can the minister give the blessed host?

I've noted reference to taking communion in a grave state or whatever term you like to use and confession. But prior to the Eucharist "I confess to God almighty and to you here present that I have sinned...." Is this not considered a confession and one on one with priest is? We also say "I am not worthy to receive you..."If we are not worthy we must be in a state of sin.

Edited June 6, 2010 by Mark of the Cross

[Guest mintavia]

[quote name='mortify' date='24 May 2010 - 07:48 PM' timestamp='1274755690' post='2116963']
I wonder what grave reason would make the above said case justifiable.

So it looks like if it is permissible, it is under extraordinary circumstnace.
[/quote]

I guess you would recognize the reason if the conditions presented themselves. I trust God would be liberal with his mercy in a really odd cercumstance. Just because your girlfriend talked to long to you on the phone would not be a good enough reason...but say you were in a car accident and a priest was not available but a "eucharistic minister" could give you one last communion would be pretty extrodinary....or certain battle field situations might make for some funky senarios. Too many folks don't take this one seriously and end up recieving unworthily. GET your butt to confession! Do not let yourself linger in a state of mortal sin. You can avoid this whole problem by confessing often. My biggest gripe is the fact that our church has thousands of members and yet only half an hour on saturday afternoon to confess. While this is a pain ...it is still no excuse for not confessing regularly and often. Do not wait for those mortal sins either....confess those venial ones too! Confession is an awsome way to grow stronger. Do not neglect it. Which reminds me I am overdue!

[Guest mintavia]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' date='06 June 2010 - 03:38 PM' timestamp='1275863925' post='2124901']
Oops responded to a dated post. Sorry!
What do you mean by imperfect contrition? You are either sorry or you are not! There are times when I wish I had never been born and been such a failure and an insult to God, but then he has a purpose for me which I must fulfil. How sorry do you need to be for being a sinner (human) for it to be considered perfect. Only God can attain perfection, man cannot, that's why he had to become human to show us how to deal with our imperfections.
One cannot place enough emphasis on the importance of the sacraments but there always has to be a loop hole for those grey area's. E.G. A person is dying, there is a minister of the Eucharist but no priest. Can the minister give the blessed host?

I've noted reference to taking communion in a grave state or whatever term you like to use and confession. But prior to the Eucharist "I confess to God almighty and to you here present that I have sinned...." Is this not considered a confession and one on one with priest is? We also say "I am not worthy to receive you..."If we are not worthy we must be in a state of sin.
[/quote]

Imperfect contrition means that you fear Gods justice so you confess. While not Ideal it is still valid contrition. Perfect contrition means you are sorry because you hurt our Lords feelings.
No human save Our Lady is truly worthy to recieve...but Our Lord bids us to do it anyway. He desired it so much he died for us. Out of obediance and love we come to the alter...not because we are worthy.
Peace.

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='mintavia' date='07 June 2010 - 02:12 PM' timestamp='1275876720' post='2125034']
Imperfect contrition means that you fear Gods justice so you confess. While not Ideal it is still valid contrition. Perfect contrition means you are sorry because you hurt our Lords feelings.
No human save Our Lady is truly worthy to recieve...but Our Lord bids us to do it anyway. He desired it so much he died for us. Out of obediance and love we come to the alter...not because we are worthy.
Peace.
[/quote]

Welcome to PM and thanks for your explanation. I would have thought that confessing out of fear of God or to go to heaven would not have been considered to be contrite at all.

[mortify]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' date='07 June 2010 - 02:06 AM' timestamp='1275890813' post='2125122']
Welcome to PM and thanks for your explanation. I would have thought that confessing out of fear of God or to go to heaven would not have been considered to be contrite at all.
[/quote]

It is contrition because one has remorse for their sins, it is however imperfect because the motive is fearing the loss of heaven and dreading the pains of hell. In the Sacrament of confession this type of contrition suffices to be reconciled with God. Perfect contrition is remorse over offending God who is Love and deserves all of our love.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='06 June 2010 - 03:30 PM' timestamp='1275849050' post='2124655']
From what I understand, grave sin is not the same as mortal sin. One can commit grave sin without having full knowledge and/or full consent, and the sin is venial.

Edit: Or am I confusing "grave sin" with "grave matter"?

Edit again: I pretty much said what Rex just said. I think.
[/quote]

According to what Rex is saying, the two are the same, but what you describe above is not grave sin, but venial sin. Grave sin is just another word for mortal sin.

The wording is easily confused though.

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='mortify' date='24 May 2010 - 04:08 PM' timestamp='1274728128' post='2116634']


1. Have any of you been told it's ok to receive the Eucharist without Sacramental Confession?

2. Is this an erroneous teaching? Is Sacramental Confession absolutely necessary or perfect sorrow with a desire for the sacrament sufficient?


[/quote]
1. I have been told that if I'm in doubt about whether I am in a state of mortal sin and can't get to Confession before Mass, there is no need to deny myself Communion. If upon reflection and eventual Confession I find I was wrong...well, I didn't know at the time.

2. I dunno.

[Mark of the Cross]

If one has not committed any mortal sins, only venial sins is it still necessary to go to confession?

Out of interest. Catholic missions in poor countries use illegal software and they would have to be pretty dumb to be unaware of this. This is theft of intellectual property and is stealing. is it sinful and is it mortal or venial. Actually most software is dated in the order of 10years so I'm not sure if that's illegal or not but I think technically the rights always stand.

Edited June 8, 2010 by Mark of the Cross

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' date='08 June 2010 - 12:39 AM' timestamp='1275968360' post='2125540']
If one has not committed any mortal sins, only venial sins is it still necessary to go to confession?[/quote]

It's a good idea, but it isn't necessary.

That said, if you aren't going on a regular basis, your ability to discern what is mortal or venial will decline.

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' date='08 June 2010 - 12:39 AM' timestamp='1275968360' post='2125540']
Out of interest. Catholic missions in poor countries use illegal software and they would have to be pretty dumb to be unaware of this. This is theft of intellectual property and is stealing. is it sinful and is it mortal or venial. Actually most software is dated in the order of 10years so I'm not sure if that's illegal or not but I think technically the rights always stand.[/quote]

Definitely venial That's if the software isn't free domain anyway. Either way, I highly doubt the copyright owners are all that concerned. I have to wonder what good ten year old software is to them?