Apotheoun Posted May 26, 2010 Posted May 26, 2010 Let the voting begin (charitable comments only please).
sacredheartandbloodofjesus Posted May 26, 2010 Posted May 26, 2010 Define Pentecostalism. Do you mean the Pentecostal Religion? Or are you speaking of the pentecostal Spirit within the Church which is the Holy Spirit as revealed in scripture on Pentecost? Or are you speaking about the Charismatic movement within the Church?
Apotheoun Posted May 26, 2010 Author Posted May 26, 2010 [quote name='sacredheartandbloodofjesus' date='26 May 2010 - 02:18 PM' timestamp='1274905103' post='2118399'] Define Pentecostalism. Do you mean the Pentecostal Religion? Or are you speaking of the pentecostal Spirit within the Church which is the Holy Spirit as revealed in scripture on Pentecost? Or are you speaking about the Charismatic movement within the Church? [/quote] Anyone who accepts the pentecostal spirituality and theology that invaded the Catholic Church in the 1960s.
sacredheartandbloodofjesus Posted May 26, 2010 Posted May 26, 2010 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='26 May 2010 - 03:19 PM' timestamp='1274905173' post='2118400'] Anyone who accepts the pentecostal spirituality and theology that invaded the Catholic Church in the 1960s. [/quote] What do you beleive this spirituality and theology consists of?
Apotheoun Posted May 26, 2010 Author Posted May 26, 2010 [quote name='sacredheartandbloodofjesus' date='26 May 2010 - 02:20 PM' timestamp='1274905249' post='2118402'] What do you beleive this spirituality and theology consists of? [/quote] See the ongoing thread that discusses this issue entitled: [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=105471"]Tongues- Gift Of The Holy Spirit?[/url]
ThePenciledOne Posted May 26, 2010 Posted May 26, 2010 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='26 May 2010 - 05:19 PM' timestamp='1274905173' post='2118400'] Anyone who accepts the pentecostal spirituality and theology that invaded the Catholic Church in the 1960s. [/quote] That's not slanted nor fully explained in the original question. But if you mean in the context of the Charismatic Renewal then yes.
sacredheartandbloodofjesus Posted May 26, 2010 Posted May 26, 2010 I accept the same spirituality and theology of the Charismatic Renewal that the Holy Roman Catholic Church does and I reject the forms of spirituality and theology that Holy Mother the Church rejects. I will not vote due to your deceptive wording on the matter.
Apotheoun Posted May 26, 2010 Author Posted May 26, 2010 [quote name='ThePenciledOne' date='26 May 2010 - 02:22 PM' timestamp='1274905371' post='2118405'] That's not slanted nor fully explained in the original question. But if you mean in the context of the Charismatic Renewal then yes. [/quote] This poll thread is a "sister" thread - if you will - to the ongoing discussion in the thread that I linked to in my previous post.
sacredheartandbloodofjesus Posted May 26, 2010 Posted May 26, 2010 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='26 May 2010 - 03:24 PM' timestamp='1274905486' post='2118407'] This poll thread is a "sister" thread - if you will - to the ongoing discussion in the thread that I linked to in my previous post. [/quote] Why not call it what the Church calls it?...The Charismatic Renewal not Pentecostalism. Your wording of the Renewal is sure to confuse certain members who vote.
Apotheoun Posted May 26, 2010 Author Posted May 26, 2010 [quote name='sacredheartandbloodofjesus' date='26 May 2010 - 02:27 PM' timestamp='1274905637' post='2118408'] Why not call it what the Church calls it?...The Charismatic Renewal not Pentecostalism. Your wording of the Renewal is sure to confuse certain members who vote. [/quote] I do not see how it could be confusing. TPO used the term pentecostalism in one of his posts in the related thread when he quoted Fr. Walsh. See the quotation below: [quote name='ThePenciledOne' date='25 May 2010 - 02:45 PM' timestamp='1274820339' post='2117495'] So, then you can write of places such as FUS, and different Charismatic prayer communities across the globe as being fruit that is poisonous. I am so glad, this is what you think of fellow Catholics that merely follow a different spirituality. As stated from Monsignor Walsh, from his book I mentioned earlier, "[b]Pentecostalism[/b] does not present a new doctrine, but merely stresses the belief that what happened at the First Pentecost is meant to happen to all Christians until the Lord returns." pg.10[/quote]
ThePenciledOne Posted May 26, 2010 Posted May 26, 2010 [quote name='sacredheartandbloodofjesus' date='26 May 2010 - 05:27 PM' timestamp='1274905637' post='2118408'] Why not call it what the Church calls it?...The Charismatic Renewal not Pentecostalism. Your wording of the Renewal is sure to confuse certain members who vote. [/quote] Worked on me....
ThePenciledOne Posted May 26, 2010 Posted May 26, 2010 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='26 May 2010 - 05:32 PM' timestamp='1274905966' post='2118410'] I do not see how it could be confusing. TPO used the term pentecostalism in one of his posts in the related thread when he quoted Fr. Walsh. See the quotation below: [/quote] Now, I was wondering when someone would talk about that, but since no one ever responded I didn't feel a need to unpack where the quote was in context.
sacredheartandbloodofjesus Posted May 26, 2010 Posted May 26, 2010 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='26 May 2010 - 03:32 PM' timestamp='1274905966' post='2118410'] I do not see how it could be confusing. TPO used the term pentecostalism in one of his posts in the related thread when he quoted Fr. Walsh. See the quotation below: [/quote] Monsignor Walsh may call it Pentecostalism but the Catholic Church does not. It is officially named the Charismatic Renewal.
Apotheoun Posted May 26, 2010 Author Posted May 26, 2010 [quote name='ThePenciledOne' date='26 May 2010 - 02:34 PM' timestamp='1274906087' post='2118414'] Worked on me.... [/quote] Perhaps you should refrain from quoting Fr. Walsh, since - as odd as it sounds - you and he do not agree on this topic. He clearly has no problem using the word "Pentecostalism."
CatherineM Posted May 26, 2010 Posted May 26, 2010 I truly believe in looking at the fruits. In my experience the fruits of this renewal/theology/association, whatever you want to call it, have been unfortunate to truly bad. Others have other experiences I'm sure, but the Charismatics took half my family out of the Church. I don't consider that to be good for them.
Apotheoun Posted May 26, 2010 Author Posted May 26, 2010 [quote name='CatherineM' date='26 May 2010 - 02:39 PM' timestamp='1274906346' post='2118422'] I truly believe in looking at the fruits. In my experience the fruits of this renewal/theology/association, whatever you want to call it, have been unfortunate to truly bad. Others have other experiences I'm sure, but the Charismatics took half my family out of the Church. I don't consider that to be good for them. [/quote] My experiences have been similar to yours. Moreover, as a former Protestant I have found the Catholic pentecostal movement to be theologically impoverished.
Selah Posted May 26, 2010 Posted May 26, 2010 I have to say, in certain rites, like the Latin Rite, it probably would not work. I also don't really feel comfortable with the idea of it happening during Mass. It just doesn't fit. So...
sacredheartandbloodofjesus Posted May 26, 2010 Posted May 26, 2010 (edited) [quote name='CatherineM' date='26 May 2010 - 03:39 PM' timestamp='1274906346' post='2118422'] I truly believe in looking at the fruits. In my experience the fruits of this renewal/theology/association, whatever you want to call it, have been unfortunate to truly bad. Others have other experiences I'm sure, but the Charismatics took half my family out of the Church. I don't consider that to be good for them. [/quote] No, those family members weak faith or ignorance of the Faith in the Church and its teachings took them out of the Church not the Renewal. If I took this outlook of yours, the Latin Mass is not good because it "took out" a large part of the Church from full communion. But I do not adopt this outlook. Edited May 26, 2010 by sacredheartandbloodofjesus
ThePenciledOne Posted May 26, 2010 Posted May 26, 2010 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='26 May 2010 - 05:38 PM' timestamp='1274906298' post='2118421'] Perhaps you should refrain from quoting Fr. Walsh, since - as odd as it sounds - you and he do not agree on this topic. He clearly has no problem using the word "Pentecostalism." [/quote] Have you ever read his book? Never said, I don't agree with him I actually do. I am not afraid of using the word. You on the other hand are using it in a loaded and slanted question I feel and if nothing else this poll will create more division, which I don't feel that phatmass needs. So I will retract my vote. Most people on here know where I stand anyway.
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