The Emasculation Of Jesus

[ThePenciledOne]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' date='03 June 2010 - 08:39 PM' timestamp='1275608397' post='2123391']
Just curious, has he done much since the "Wild at Heart" craze and the few books that followed it? That was five to ten years ago. Can't say I've heard his name and I feel like he's had little influence on the culture of American Christianity. He's like the Ron Paul of politics... gained a faithful niche who love him, but outside of that they're practically inconsequential.
[/quote]

Depends on how you look at it. He recently co-wrote a book called Love and War, with his wife, which is aimed at married couples. And what he and his wife are currently doing are running retreats for men and women which is bearing fruit and changing lives. I think that is enough for them. Who said things had to reach national acclaim in order for it to be consequential? People are still buying his book, Wild At Heart, and being changed by it. I believe that is still quite good and of worth. There are few other Christians that are living out their faith so forwardly and fearlessly.

Plus almost every individual my own age has heard of Wild at Heart and/or Captivating. Maybe, it's your age group.

Edited June 4, 2010 by ThePenciledOne

[LouisvilleFan]

Well, I'm thinking that the underlying cultural issues that motivated Eldredge to write in the first place (which have bled into both Catholicism and Protestantism) are still with us and it doesn't seem much has changed in a Christian's daily experience. Maybe as a Catholic it's just due to the fact that most parish ministers are still from the generation that ushered in this feministic approach to faith that leaves a lot of guys feeling like church is irrelevant.

Just thinking out loud... gotta run for now...

[Thy Geekdom Come]

I suspect this all has more to do with temperament than with gender.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Raphael' date='04 June 2010 - 10:54 AM' timestamp='1275663275' post='2123623']
I suspect this all has more to do with temperament than with gender.
[/quote]
?

[ThePenciledOne]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' date='04 June 2010 - 11:40 AM' timestamp='1275662439' post='2123615']
Well, I'm thinking that the underlying cultural issues that motivated Eldredge to write in the first place (which have bled into both Catholicism and Protestantism) are still with us and it doesn't seem much has changed in a Christian's daily experience. Maybe as a Catholic it's just due to the fact that most parish ministers are still from the generation that ushered in this feministic approach to faith that leaves a lot of guys feeling like church is irrelevant.

Just thinking out loud... gotta run for now...
[/quote]

I guess. I know at one point the Catholic faith wasn't doing it for me and I had to go to a Non-Denominational church to revamp me and inspire me onward and call me on. In which I then fled back to the Catholic Church which had the substance where Protestantism does not.

Though, I still get frustrated today that Catholics sometimes do not realize that guys need a little more then just "men's groups" we need something to [u]Call[/u] Men [b]On[/b].

[LouisvilleFan]

That's why there needs to be a crucifix in every Church and at every Mass.

[ThePenciledOne]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' date='04 June 2010 - 08:19 PM' timestamp='1275693548' post='2123842']
That's why there needs to be a crucifix in every Church and at every Mass.
[/quote]

Explain this a little more.

[LouisvilleFan]

When we worship our God crucified, we should be called upon to follow Him in spirit in order to crucify our flesh and desires. There are numerous spiritual battles we could be engaged in... abortion, euthanasia, despair... and it all begins with personal holiness and prayer. We don't need other Catholics who realize anything about us. Find a need and fill it.

[ThePenciledOne]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' date='06 June 2010 - 01:26 PM' timestamp='1275841567' post='2124609']
When we worship our God crucified, we should be called upon to follow Him in spirit in order to crucify our flesh and desires. There are numerous spiritual battles we could be engaged in... abortion, euthanasia, despair... and it all begins with personal holiness and prayer. We don't need other Catholics who realize anything about us. Find a need and fill it.
[/quote]


I am still not understanding how this applies to my orginial question, because being recently just out of the high school stage, there are very few and I mean very few high school guys that actually grasp the Lord's Passion and the Cross. Even when some are fully catechized there is not enough maturity there. So, I really don't see how your answer to my first post there is satisfied. I am not saying that you are wrong, but for the situation it apparently is not enough. And I know that, becuase when I am the only young adult male in my church at mass last night for a parish of 1,000 families, that's when I know that something is not right and something is lacking. Yet, it goes across the board and that is why I love John Eldredge's book, since it really wakes men up to what is going on and calls them to arms against Satan and those dark forces. That is the sort of clarion call we need.

[1337 k4th0l1x0r]

[quote name='kafka' date='02 June 2010 - 02:55 PM' timestamp='1275504928' post='2122782']
agreed. No nobility. The body is contorted.

Here is one by Dali. Very modern. I sort of like it. It seems to be emphasizing the mystical/transcendent aspect of the Crucifixion. Though I do not think it is everyone's cup of tea, and obviously not realistic:
[img]http://blogystera.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/dali_crucifixion_hypercube.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

This one has always struck me as one showing Christ's sacrifice being for all time. You see, he is crucified on a net of a tesseract, which is a 4-Dimensional analogy of a cube. These 4 dimensions are spatial, but our world as we perceive it is 3 spatial dimensions and 1 time dimension. Therefore, in that one picture he is showing his crucifixion across all time and space.

[Era Might]

[quote name='1337 k4th0l1x0r' date='06 June 2010 - 06:10 PM' timestamp='1275862249' post='2124877']
This one has always struck me as one showing Christ's sacrifice being for all time. You see, he is crucified on a net of a tesseract, which is a 4-Dimensional analogy of a cube. These 4 dimensions are spatial, but our world as we perceive it is 3 spatial dimensions and 1 time dimension. Therefore, in that one picture he is showing his crucifixion across all time and space.
[/quote]
Looks like a game of chess to me.

[MithLuin]

Look more closely. The 'chessboard' does not entirely alternate black and white like it should - there is a cross on it.

Still...this is Dali we're talking about. He wasn't known for his realism!

[kafka]

[quote name='1337 k4th0l1x0r' date='06 June 2010 - 06:10 PM' timestamp='1275862249' post='2124877']
This one has always struck me as one showing Christ's sacrifice being for all time. You see, he is crucified on a net of a tesseract, which is a 4-Dimensional analogy of a cube. These 4 dimensions are spatial, but our world as we perceive it is 3 spatial dimensions and 1 time dimension. Therefore, in that one picture he is showing his crucifixion across all time and space.
[/quote]
I think that is a fine explanation. Like what JPII said and I quoted above.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='ThePenciledOne' date='06 June 2010 - 04:48 PM' timestamp='1275853716' post='2124706']
I am still not understanding how this applies to my orginial question, because being recently just out of the high school stage, there are very few and I mean very few high school guys that actually grasp the Lord's Passion and the Cross. Even when some are fully catechized there is not enough maturity there. So, I really don't see how your answer to my first post there is satisfied. I am not saying that you are wrong, but for the situation it apparently is not enough. And I know that, becuase when I am the only young adult male in my church at mass last night for a parish of 1,000 families, that's when I know that something is not right and something is lacking. Yet, it goes across the board and that is why I love John Eldredge's book, since it really wakes men up to what is going on and calls them to arms against Satan and those dark forces. That is the sort of clarion call we need.
[/quote]

I've lost track... what was your original question?

Do you think a guy needs to be grown into adulthood before he "gets it?" I understand immaturity presents hurdles as far as being humble before God, knowing one's own sin, and all that. On the flip side, growing psychologically mature is often mistake for spiritual growth. Youth is the time to establish and build a disciplined relationship with Christ; as we mature physically and mentally, spiritual growth is all the more difficult to attain.

Edited June 8, 2010 by LouisvilleFan

[ThePenciledOne]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' date='07 June 2010 - 11:55 PM' timestamp='1275965710' post='2125509']
I've lost track... what was your original question?

Do you think a guy needs to be grown into adulthood before he "gets it?" I understand immaturity presents hurdles as far as being humble before God, knowing one's own sin, and all that. On the flip side, growing psychologically mature is often mistake for spiritual growth. Youth is the time to establish and build a disciplined relationship with Christ; as we mature physically and mentally, spiritual growth is all the more difficult to attain.
[/quote]

This was my question I guess, but it looks more like a frustration.

[quote]
Though, I still get frustrated today that Catholics sometimes do notrealize that guys need a little more then just "men's groups" we needsomething to Call Men [b]On[/b].
[/quote]

And to your second statement, I think psychological maturity plays some sort of a part in spiritual growth. And there is very few role models including parents that present a disciplined relationship (prayer/faith life) and I have to agree yes as we begin to realize more and more we are often given to hard revelations and epiphanies, but all the same we have to remember to always look upward and realize the Lord will take care of us.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='ThePenciledOne' date='08 June 2010 - 01:52 AM' timestamp='1275972761' post='2125560']
And to your second statement, I think psychological maturity plays some sort of a part in spiritual growth. And there is very few role models including parents that present a disciplined relationship (prayer/faith life) and I have to agree yes as we begin to realize more and more we are often given to hard revelations and epiphanies, but all the same we have to remember to always look upward and realize the Lord will take care of us.
[/quote]

It can, but most of the time psychological maturing is mistaken for spiritual maturity. For example, a person may grow more patient as a gift from the Holy Spirit, or they may grow more patient because they are more mature mentally. It could be a little of both, but simply seeing patience in a person does not necessarily mean their relationship with God is any stronger than before.

As for the Church's vocation, "Religion that is pure and undefiled before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world" (James 1:27). Not to say that I'm doing this personally... not sure if I know anyone who is, outside of relatives, but the command is in Scripture nevertheless.

[ThePenciledOne]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' date='08 June 2010 - 10:42 AM' timestamp='1276004559' post='2125606']
It can, but most of the time psychological maturing is mistaken for spiritual maturity. For example, a person may grow more patient as a gift from the Holy Spirit, or they may grow more patient because they are more mature mentally. It could be a little of both, but simply seeing patience in a person does not necessarily mean their relationship with God is any stronger than before.
[/quote]

Ok, now I see where you are coming from.

[quote]
As for the Church's vocation, "Religion that is pure and undefiled before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world" (James 1:27). Not to say that I'm doing this personally... not sure if I know anyone who is, outside of relatives, but the command is in Scripture nevertheless.
[/quote]

I don't know necessarily why you include this scripture here, though it is a good one. I would say that it is the Churches' place to try and remain unstained from the world, but as it says to visit orphans and widows it calls us to go out and meet people where they are and evangelize or at least minster to them as loving Christians. Few men in the world realize that their strength is needed, and the Catholic Church aside from the Priesthood really calls out to Fathers, at least in my experience and perspective.