Animal / Human Hybrids

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam' date='08 June 2010 - 12:45 AM' timestamp='1275979511' post='2125568']
This could get very hairy. What exactly do you mean by energy? Couldn't Spirit the way you are using be replaced with the word "grace"? I find in the west, some theologians use the word spirit and soul to denote the difference in spiritual character between human and animals/plants etc. No one would deny that God gives himself personally and makes himself present in man and that the Holy Spirit does this too. This past semester a friend of mine (a Greek Catholic) did his thesis on the essence/energies distinction in eastern theology and i did mine on the relationship between Creation and Grace. We had alot of interesting discussions. Actually he is on the boards and comments from time to time.
[/quote]
The divine energy is God as He is participable, and the whole of creation exists in the divine energy in a non-volitional sense; while simultaneously existing in man through the practice of virtue. It is the latter alone that properly brings about [i]theosis[/i] (see St. Gregory Palamas, [i]Capita Physica[/i], no. 78).

Eastern theologians hold that the soul is a natural (i.e., created) principle of life common to all contingent beings, but that man's soul is distinguished from that of other creatures in that it is rational and possesses other qualities that image God (e.g., free will, and the ability to actualize various virtues). The term spirit - in Byzantine theology - refers properly to God alone, and so when the spirit is spoken of in connection with man it refers to man as he is regenerated through faith and baptism, and through participation in the other holy mysteries, i.e., it refers to man as he reflects the trinity (see St. Irenaeus, [i]Adversus Haereses[/i], Book 5, Chapter 6).

Edited June 8, 2010 by Apotheoun

[Ziggamafu]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='08 June 2010 - 03:15 AM' timestamp='1275981340' post='2125571']
The divine energy is God as He is participable, and the whole of creation exists in the divine energy in a non-volitional sense; while simultaneously existing in man through the practice of virtue. It is the latter alone that properly brings about [i]theosis[/i] (see St. Gregory Palamas, [i]Capita Physica[/i], no. 78).

Eastern theologians hold that the soul is a natural (i.e., created) principle of life common to all contingent beings, but that man's soul is distinguished from that of other creatures in that it is rational and possesses other qualities that image God (e.g., free will, and the ability to actualize various virtues). The term spirit - in Byzantine theology - refers properly to God alone, and so when the spirit is spoken of in connection with man it refers to man as he is regenerated through faith and baptism, and through participation in the other holy mysteries, i.e., it refers to man as he reflects the trinity (see St. Irenaeus, [i]Adversus Haereses[/i], Book 5, Chapter 6).
[/quote]

So does the East believe a man does not have a spirit until he is baptized?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Ziggamafu' date='08 June 2010 - 07:16 AM' timestamp='1276002960' post='2125602']
So does the East believe a man does not have a spirit until he is baptized?
[/quote]
That is the gist of what St. Irenaeus taught, and his teaching is normative for the East . . . bearing in mind the distinction I made between non-volitional and volitional participation in the divine energy.

[mommas_boy]

I agree with the yes/no conclusions above. Since the animal/human hybrid takes (in part) its substance from its human parent, then it inherits a soul from its human parent. That is the only way that I view a soul as being able to be conferred, because it must be inherited directly from Adam and Eve.

In the case of a robot, there is (not yet) a mechanism for a human and robot to comingle genetic information so as to produce a hybrid biomechanical construct that takes its substance from human and robotic partners. Barring this, no other method allows for a robot to inherit a soul from Adam and Eve.

[Laudate_Dominum]

Hibridos animal-humano son una abominación atroz. Sin embargo, un cerdo 90% con las secuencias de genes humanos pueden ser simplemente un animal modificado genéticamente. Aunque, un ser humano el 90% genético con material genético extraño "empalmado" en el genoma puede ser mejor considerado como un ser humano con graves deformidades genéticas. Quiero decir que creo que los datos deben ser tomados en cuenta. Por el momento no sé dónde trazar la línea entre humanos y animales.

Quizás en el futuro las definiciones legales claras tendrán que ser resueltos. En este caso yo creo en errar en el lado de la precaución. Un porcentaje simple del genoma puede no ser adecuada. ¿Y si es posible para aumentar un cerebro animal hasta el punto de expresión y formas humanas de la cognición, mientras que deja a la mayoría del genoma animal intacto? Puede que no haya prueba sencilla. En mi opinión la mejor solución es prohibir la mezcla de animales y seres humanos en cualquier nivel.
Tengo mucho más que decir sino que debe ir por ahora.

[Resurrexi]

tl;dr

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='10 June 2010 - 01:36 AM' timestamp='1276090563' post='2126301']
Hibridos animal-humano son una abominación atroz. Sin embargo, un cerdo 90% con las secuencias de genes humanos pueden ser simplemente un animal modificado genéticamente. Aunque, un ser humano el 90% genético con material genético extraño "empalmado" en el genoma puede ser mejor considerado como un ser humano con graves deformidades genéticas. Quiero decir que creo que los datos deben ser tomados en cuenta. Por el momento no sé dónde trazar la línea entre humanos y animales.

Quizás en el futuro las definiciones legales claras tendrán que ser resueltos. En este caso yo creo en errar en el lado de la precaución. Un porcentaje simple del genoma puede no ser adecuada. ¿Y si es posible para aumentar un cerebro animal hasta el punto de expresión y formas humanas de la cognición, mientras que deja a la mayoría del genoma animal intacto? Puede que no haya prueba sencilla. En mi opinión la mejor solución es prohibir la mezcla de animales y seres humanos en cualquier nivel.
Tengo mucho más que decir sino que debe ir por ahora.
[/quote]

que!

[mommas_boy]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='09 June 2010 - 09:36 AM' timestamp='1276090563' post='2126301']
Hibridos animal-humano son una abominación atroz. Sin embargo, un cerdo 90% con las secuencias de genes humanos pueden ser simplemente un animal modificado genéticamente. Aunque, un ser humano el 90% genético con material genético extraño "empalmado" en el genoma puede ser mejor considerado como un ser humano con graves deformidades genéticas. Quiero decir que creo que los datos deben ser tomados en cuenta. Por el momento no sé dónde trazar la línea entre humanos y animales.

Quizás en el futuro las definiciones legales claras tendrán que ser resueltos. En este caso yo creo en errar en el lado de la precaución. Un porcentaje simple del genoma puede no ser adecuada. ¿Y si es posible para aumentar un cerebro animal hasta el punto de expresión y formas humanas de la cognición, mientras que deja a la mayoría del genoma animal intacto? Puede que no haya prueba sencilla. En mi opinión la mejor solución es prohibir la mezcla de animales y seres humanos en cualquier nivel.
Tengo mucho más que decir sino que debe ir por ahora.
[/quote]

Rough translation, because I suspect that this was copied and pasted into Google Translate (and some sentences just don't make sense).

[quote]
Animal-human hybrids are an atrocious abomination. Without exception, a 90% pig with the genetic sequences of a human can simply be a genetically modified animal. Although, a 90% genetically-modified human being with foreign genetic material "spliced" into the genome can be better considered as a human being with grave genetic deformities. I want to say that I believe that the data should be taken into account. For the moment, I don't know where to draw the line between humans and animals.

Perhaps in the future, clear legal definitions will result. in this case, I believe in erring on the side of caution. A simple percentage of the genome cannot be adequate. Is it possible to increase an animal brain to the point of expression and human form of cognition, while leaving the better part of the animal genome intact? There can be no simple test. In my opinion, the best solution is to prohibit the mixing of animals and human beings on whatever level.

I have much more to say but should go for now.
[/quote]

Edited June 10, 2010 by mommas_boy

[Laudate_Dominum]

How dare you. You have no right to release this unauthorized translation of my intellectual property.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='mommas_boy' date='10 June 2010 - 02:56 AM' timestamp='1276153013' post='2126679']
Rough translation, because I suspect that this was copied and pasted into Google Translate (and some sentences just don't make sense).
[/quote]
Wrong. Btw, I know good English and do not require your translation services. That post is not your concern.

[mommas_boy]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='10 June 2010 - 03:11 AM' timestamp='1276153918' post='2126684']
How dare you. You have no right to release this unauthorized translation of my intellectual property.
[/quote]


[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='10 June 2010 - 03:21 AM' timestamp='1276154500' post='2126686']
Wrong. Btw, I know good English and do not require your translation services. That post is not your concern.
[/quote]

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='mommas_boy' date='10 June 2010 - 03:26 AM' timestamp='1276154782' post='2126688']

[/quote]










how-dare-you-one-up-me-so

[Resurrexi]

All humans are animals, but not all animals are humans.

Man is a rational animal, while the other animals are irrational.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[spoiler][IMG]http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h119/NoonienSoong_2006/lolcats/divercat.jpg[/IMG]
[/spoiler]

What are snake men? Battlecat and Panthor seem pretty rational. What about Orko, or Mer-Man?

[IMG]http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h119/NoonienSoong_2006/variosity/he-man.jpg[/IMG]

The teenage mutant ninja turtles are an interesting case too. Perhaps the scientists who are into animal-human hybrids grew up watching TMNT shows like I did and are just uber stoked about the possibilities.


To Whom It May Concern:

Would you deny Donatello legal personhood or the possibility of salvation? If you were to meet Master Splinter would you be able to look him in the eye and tell him that he's not human and therefore is theologically worthless and ethically insignificant based on your philosophy?

Do you believe that it would be ethical to breed, torture and kill Ewoks for scientific experiments? Do you deny that R2D2 ought to be treated with some dignity for some reason? Do you believe that it would be wrong to torture C-3PO as part of a demolition derby for no reason other than the entertainment of homo sapiens? These, and many others, are the real ethical dilemmas of tomorrow.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='10 June 2010 - 03:38 AM' timestamp='1276155522' post='2126692']
All humans are animals, but not all animals are humans.

Man is a rational animal, while the other animals are irrational.
[/quote]

[i]Don't tase me bro. [/i]

[IMG]http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h119/NoonienSoong_2006/variosity/wtheck.jpg[/IMG]

[Resurrexi]

When the dark
Of the night
Comes around
That's the time
That the animal
Comes alive.

Edited June 10, 2010 by Resurrexi

[Laudate_Dominum]

Insomnia again?

[IMG]http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h119/NoonienSoong_2006/variosity/sleepin.jpg[/IMG]

[Resurrexi]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbVBG1slklI[/media]

Edited June 10, 2010 by Resurrexi

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='10 June 2010 - 05:00 AM' timestamp='1276160459' post='2126702']
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbVBG1slklI[/media]
[/quote]
I disagree with this post

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='10 June 2010 - 04:05 AM' timestamp='1276160747' post='2126703']
I disagree with this post
[/quote]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JruqUIjl5Sw[/media]