What Do You Do

[ardillacid]

[quote name='aalpha1989' date='11 June 2010 - 03:10 PM' timestamp='1276283453' post='2127362']
This is why L_D should make more serious posts sometimes.
[/quote]
LD, if you ever had any reason to doubt my word, this post just annihilated it.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='notardillacid' date='11 June 2010 - 03:31 PM' timestamp='1276284704' post='2127383']
LD, if you ever had any reason to doubt my word, this post just annihilated it.
[/quote]
The more I see that smiley the more I feel like picking up the phone and calling you.

[ardillacid]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='11 June 2010 - 03:37 PM' timestamp='1276285044' post='2127387']
The more I see that smiley the more I feel like picking up the phone and calling you.
[/quote]
I've blocked all area codes east of wisconsin, since nothing good comes from there.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='notardillacid' date='11 June 2010 - 03:38 PM' timestamp='1276285126' post='2127388']
I've blocked all area codes east of wisconsin, since nothing good comes from there.
[/quote]
sad story.

[Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam]

[quote name='Socrates' date='11 June 2010 - 03:36 PM' timestamp='1276281397' post='2127332']
If someone has forcefully invaded our homes, he may indeed be a threat to the safety of ourselves and family, and self-defense and defense of others is certainly allowable. If it results in the criminal's death, too bad for him.
Standing by and allowing an attacker to have his way with your family is not holy, but cowardice.
[/quote]

I don't think that anyone ever condoned such actions. I think the pacifist thing specifically concerns if the the intruder is simply interested in stealing the T.V. It is one thing to be non-resistant concerning oneself and one's own things, and quite another to be non-resistant concerning others. Obviously, the whole thing goes out the window if the person threatens your family b/c that is a different scenario than was set up in the beginning. If someone did insinuate being non-resistent when other people are threatened and I missed it, then I apologize and agree with you.

[ardillacid]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='11 June 2010 - 03:43 PM' timestamp='1276285392' post='2127391']
sad story.
[/quote]
I know, I'm sorry dude

[Seven77]

[quote name='Era Might' date='11 June 2010 - 01:03 PM' timestamp='1276272229' post='2127238']
It also might escalate a situation beyond what it would have been.

If someone were just stealing my TV, I wouldn't do anything. He'd be doing me a favor (not that I condone stealing).

If my family were in immediate danger, then I would deal with that situation as it arises.

I was watching footage of some gun-rights advocates, who walked around all the time with guns in visible sight. Their reasoning was that you never know when an attacker is going to appear. I thought that was such a sad way to live life, in constant fear of theoretical attackers.
[/quote]

I agreee...and i have no problem w/the principle of double effect.

[ardillacid]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='11 June 2010 - 03:37 PM' timestamp='1276285044' post='2127387']
The more I see that smiley the more I feel like picking up the phone and calling you.
[/quote]
Don't telephones conflict with your minimalist hippie ideology?

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='notardillacid' date='11 June 2010 - 04:57 PM' timestamp='1276289846' post='2127443']
Don't telephones conflict with your minimalist hippie ideology?
[/quote]
In fact yes, yes they do. I hated phones long before I had a fully developed hippie ideology. I think phone hating is like my signature thing. It's my trademark. *whistle, click click

[ardillacid]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='11 June 2010 - 05:00 PM' timestamp='1276290041' post='2127449']
In fact yes, yes they do. I hated phones long before I had a fully developed hippie ideology. I think phone hating is like my signature thing. It's my trademark. *whistle, click click
[/quote]
It follows that the internet is far more of an offense to your philosophy, yet here you are.

At least I am consistent in my beliefs

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='Socrates' date='11 June 2010 - 02:36 PM' timestamp='1276281397' post='2127332']
I don't think we're under any moral obligation to aid others in performing a gravely sinful and criminal act such as robbery, even if against ourselves. People certainly have a right to protect their property, though lethal force should be avoided as far as practical.
If someone has forcefully invaded our homes, he may indeed be a threat to the safety of ourselves and family, and self-defense and defense of others is certainly allowable. If it results in the criminal's death, too bad for him.
[b]Standing by and allowing an attacker to have his way with your family is not holy, but cowardice.[/b]
[/quote]


You are only correct if the intruder is threatening physical or spiritual violence, or if he is attempting to take something necessary for the family's survival. If one is single, on the other hand, it is always a matter of prudence.

Honestly though I am shocked at modern day conservatives' refusal to submit to holy martyrdom. Martyrdom is always the higher calling, not violence. It is cowardice to threaten physical violence and to love your life. If you die in the attempt to converse with the intruder then so be it; greater will be your reward in Heaven.

Again, everyone has the obligation to defend his family, but violence should only be the last resort. If possible one should accept martyrdom (though of course it is not a matter of sin if one does not accept it). I don't remember the apostles engaging in battle with the Jews... in fact I remember Jesus reprimanding Peter for not allowing Him to give up His life.

[SaintOfVirtue]

Where's the, "wave my gun in their face, fire a few warning rounds, and make THEM call 911" option.



[img]http://www.americanroadshop.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/63241_caution911streetsi.jpg[/img]

Edited June 11, 2010 by SaintOfVirtue

[aalpha1989]

I might add that to have such a great attachment to your TV that you would shoot an intruder to save it betrays great spiritual poverty. God forgive me if I say this in pride or out of some other vice, He knows I have enough of those.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='notardillacid' date='11 June 2010 - 05:06 PM' timestamp='1276290397' post='2127458']
It follows that the internet is far more of an offense to your philosophy, yet here you are.

At least I am consistent in my beliefs [/quote]
Of course, my life is inconsistent with my ideals in many more ways than that. Indeed, I am a primitivist but I currently work as a software engineer. It doesn't get much worse than that. I reject capitalism and yet at the moment my survival is based on it. These things combined necessitate my ownership of a computer for now. Socrates might agree with me that the wife and baby factor makes a big difference on how we weigh our options against our ideals and personal desires. But fear not ardill! I'm working on it. All in due time brother, all in due time.

[SaintOfVirtue]

I'd actually try to detain the crook at gun point, and make them phone the police so I can keep both hands on my gun. If they make a wrong move, well then, they trespassed into the wrong house.
Self-defense I believe is morally acceptable, part of self-defense is defense of personal property.

[Era Might]

[quote name='SaintOfVirtue' date='11 June 2010 - 05:37 PM' timestamp='1276292268' post='2127481']I'd actually try to detain the crook at gun point, and make them phone the police so I can keep both hands on my gun. If they make a wrong move, well then, they trespassed into the wrong house.
Self-defense I believe is morally acceptable, part of self-defense is defense of personal property.
[/quote]
I would feel sorry for anyone who would kill for a television.

Edited June 11, 2010 by Era Might

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='SaintOfVirtue' date='11 June 2010 - 05:37 PM' timestamp='1276292268' post='2127481']
Self-defense I believe is morally acceptable, part of self-defense is defense of personal property.
[/quote]


Yes, I never denied this truth... but to focus on it and to make it the ideal for your life is to deny the higher truth that martyrdom is always best. We should strive whenever possible to accept higher callings from God; if it is not His will that you suffer martyrdom He will preserve you.


I will reiterate again (because it seems that earlier posts often get forgotten) that one [i]must [/i]defend one's family. Family is a legitimate reason to engage in physical self-defense.

[SaintOfVirtue]

I actually find this whole scenario rather unrealistic so my responses thus far have been more jovial than serious. This scenario is unrealistic for the following reasons:

1. Crooks aren't looking for hard time. If they break into a house and someone is there, they will run away.

2. If they don't run away, then they are more than likely armed and willing to fight for whatever it is they came for.

3. I doubt they will stand in the door way and discuss whether or not they will take your TV or just leave.

4. Any TV worth stealing is usually to large for one person to move by himself, and many are bolted to walls.

5. Read #4 again. He must have brought help with him.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Socrates' date='11 June 2010 - 11:20 AM' timestamp='1276273245' post='2127254']
I'd strut my stuff physically, maybe do a little dance.

[/quote]
Would you also do your little turn on the catwalk?

[ardillacid]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='11 June 2010 - 05:28 PM' timestamp='1276291680' post='2127476']
Of course, my life is inconsistent with my ideals in many more ways than that. Indeed, I am a primitivist but I currently work as a software engineer. It doesn't get much worse than that. I reject capitalism and yet at the moment my survival is based on it. These things combined necessitate my ownership of a computer for now. Socrates might agree with me that the wife and baby factor makes a big difference on how we weigh our options against our ideals and personal desires. But fear not ardill! I'm working on it. All in due time brother, all in due time.
[/quote]
So basically you are using the lifestyle you chose as your excuse? weak sauce