The J.r.r. Tolkien Thread

[Innocent]

I searched the Phorum and didn't find any thread dedicated solely to Tolkien. Thus I thought I'd start one.

For the first post, here's a link to one of Tolkien's essays, On Fairy Stories:

[list]

[*][url="http://bjorn.kiev.ua/librae/Tolkien/Tolkien_On_Fairy_Stories.htm"]On Fairy Stories {html}[/url]

[*]Links to PDF versions can be found [url="http://direcafe.ning.com/forum/topic/show?id=709453%3ATopic%3A18794"]here[/url] and [url="http://community.livejournal.com/told_tales/142160.html"]here[/url].

[*][url="http://www.tolkien-online.com/on-fairy-stories.html"]A note on this essay[/url] from Tolkien-Online.com

[*][url="http://dlibrary.acu.edu.au/research/theology/ejournal/Issue3/kelly.htm"][i]Faith Seeking Fantasy: Tolkien On Fairy Stories[/i][/url]: An essay by a Redemptorist theology professor, examining Tolkien's concept of the fairy story.

[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Fairy-Stories"]Wikipedia Article.[/url]


[/list]

Edited June 13, 2010 by Innocent

[sarcasmguy126]

Gosh, I love Tolkien! He is the greatest writer EVER! I am finishing "The Return of the King" (book) currently. I have never read the appendices before, but perhaps I will this time around! His writing is truly beautiful.

[CatherineM]

I always start them, and then get bored before I get finished.

[sistersintigo]

I am partial to the "Silmarillion", which tells how Sauron the Dark Lord got his start (as a fallen angel) and spells out a cosmogony myth about the creation of the material world. Oh, and where the incredibly ancient Elven Queen Galadriel came from.

[kafka]

[quote name='sistersintigo' date='13 June 2010 - 11:52 AM' timestamp='1276444341' post='2128084']
I am partial to the "Silmarillion", which tells how Sauron the Dark Lord got his start (as a fallen angel) and spells out a cosmogony myth about the creation of the material world. Oh, and where the incredibly ancient Elven Queen Galadriel came from.
[/quote]
The Silmarillion is breathtakingly beautiful. His form in that work is truly solemn and wonderful, though difficult to get into. I couldnt read it say five or six years ago, but now I love it.

Also his retelleng/translation of Sigmund and Gudrun are fascinating. The verses are compact and powerful. Very different form of poetry from Scandinavia. And of course Lord of the Rings is unmatched. I don't think anyone will ever match him in his genre. Too unique and powerful.

[laetitia crucis]

Love Tolkien. I [i]almost[/i] did my senior honors thesis on him.

[ThePenciledOne]

Tolkien in short is amazing. One of my favorite authors and "The Silmarillion" is my favorite book by him. (yes it even surpasses the LOTR trilogy).

The book itself just sweeps you up in this grand vision and really shows that the middle-earth most people love and cherish is nothing but a shadow of the great and mythical place it was.

I specifically enjoy the creation myth he wove and it just always leaves me pondering on how effortlessly he paints this picture.

[MithLuin]

The Silmarillion is awesome. The darkness is so deep in that one that the flashes of light that shine out are brilliant - not just breathtaking, but actually painful to watch (joy that pierces like swords...I think that was how C.S. Lewis put it). Tragedy in spades, but still with a happy ending (well, sorta....everybody dies, but it all works out in the end...well, no, the world gets destroyed, but it all works out....well, it kinda works out...Morgoth goes away?)

<----- My avatar is Maedhros, eldest son of Fëanor

I think on the first reading, the story is too dense and the style too remote. Most people hate it, especially since it's [i]not[/i] The Lord of the Rings. But on a re-reading, it's wonderful. By then, you remember that Fingolfin is Fingon's father and Finrod's uncle and Fëanor's half-brother.

But, yeah, very dark. This happens in the first third of the book.....

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDcnEhASd9U&feature=watch_response[/media]

[ThePenciledOne]

I love the story of Feanor and Fingolfin, its just gold. (period)

[MithLuin]

Fingolfin is awesome

"Half-brother in blood, full brother in heart I will be. Thou shalt lead, and I will follow. May no new grief divide us."

Ahhh, but in the Silmarillion, there are always new griefs lurking....

My favorite tale is Beren and Luthien

Here's a picture I took of Tolkien's grave:
[img]http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m263/MithLuin/England/c8-TolkiensGrave.jpg?t=1276490981[/img]

[ThePenciledOne]

You were THERE!!!

That's so crazy! I wanna eventally do my masters at Oxford, hehe, maybe follow in Tolkien's footsteps there...


But yeah, that story is so great.

I just got done with [u]The Children of Hurin[/u] and that story is truely heart breaking.

[laetitia crucis]

[quote name='MithLuin' date='14 June 2010 - 01:00 AM' timestamp='1276491624' post='2128447']
Fingolfin is awesome

"Half-brother in blood, full brother in heart I will be. Thou shalt lead, and I will follow. May no new grief divide us."

Ahhh, but in the Silmarillion, there are always new griefs lurking....

My favorite tale is Beren and Luthien

Here's a picture I took of Tolkien's grave:
[img]http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m263/MithLuin/England/c8-TolkiensGrave.jpg?t=1276490981[/img]
[/quote]



Thank you for posting the picture of Tolkien's grave, MithLuin! I was able to go to his grave in 2004... ah, what a day!

I prayed for him and for his wife, then left my rosary there. It was somewhat surprising to me to see SO many rosaries on his gravestone, and also on that rosebush! You could definitely feel the love so many have for him.

Were you able to see his brother's (the priest) grave just a few feet away?

All of it made me a tad verklempt. I have hopes of one day going back.

[MithLuin]

His brother was not a priest. His brother Hilary was a farmer. His eldest son John was a priest, though - is that who you meant? (I don't recall what year he died, but I know he is deceased now; he said his father's funeral mass.) Looked it up: 2001.

Yes, it was a requirement if I went to England with my friends - I had to visit Tolkien's grave in Oxford, and they had to come with me to the Lord of the Rings musical showing in London. They were good sports .

Yes, I think people leave so many things at his grave that they have to clean it off, like, weekly . I left a small green stone there that I had brought from home.

[laetitia crucis]

[quote name='MithLuin' date='14 June 2010 - 08:35 AM' timestamp='1276518907' post='2128492']
His brother was not a priest. His brother Hilary was a farmer. His eldest son John was a priest, though - is that who you meant? (I don't recall what year he died, but I know he is deceased now; he said his father's funeral mass.) Looked it up: 2001.

Yes, it was a requirement if I went to England with my friends - I had to visit Tolkien's grave in Oxford, and they had to come with me to the Lord of the Rings musical showing in London. They were good sports .

Yes, I think people leave so many things at his grave that they have to clean it off, like, weekly . I left a small green stone there that I had brought from home.
[/quote]

Oh, you are most correct! Definitely his son!!!

How was the Lord of the Rings musical?

[kafka]

Farewell sweet earth and northern sky,
for ever blest, since here did lie
and here with lissom limbs did run
beneath the Moon, beneath the Sun,
Lúthien Tinúviel
more fair than mortal tongue can tell.
Though all to ruin fell the world
and were dissolved and backward hurled
unmade into the old abyss,
yet were its making good, for this-
the dusk, the dawn, the earth, the sea-
that Lúthien for a time should be.

[Innocent]

[quote name='MithLuin' date='14 June 2010 - 11:30 AM' timestamp='1276491624' post='2128447']
Fingolfin is awesome

"Half-brother in blood, full brother in heart I will be. Thou shalt lead, and I will follow. May no new grief divide us."

Ahhh, but in the Silmarillion, there are always new griefs lurking....

My favorite tale is Beren and Luthien

Here's a picture I took of Tolkien's grave:
[img]http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m263/MithLuin/England/c8-TolkiensGrave.jpg?t=1276490981[/img]
[/quote]

It's great that you were able to visit their tomb and pray there.


Some pictures I found while searching the net:

Edith Bratt Tolkien (Before their marriage, perhaps):
[img]http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r30/prophet_o_peace/TK-riddle/e.jpg[/img]

And two pictures of them together when they were older.

[img]http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r30/prophet_o_peace/Phatmass/edith-tolkien-1.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r30/prophet_o_peace/Phatmass/Ronald_Edith_2.jpg[/img]

(Source: [url="http://www.tolkienforum.co.uk/Default.aspx?g=posts&t=545"]1[/url],[url="http://www.arwen-undomiel.com/tolkien/gallery.html"]2[/url], [url="http://lenegaron27.blogspot.com/2008_12_01_archive.html"]3[/url])

I've been searching the net for any photos of the Tolkiens as newlyweds but no luck so far.

Edited June 15, 2010 by Innocent

[MithLuin]

This picture was taken in 1916, the year he got married and shipped off to war. I don't know if it was taken before or after his wedding, though:

[img]http://s3.amazonaws.com/readers/2008/12/29/tolkien1916_1.jpg[/img]

The Lord of the Rings musical was a lot of fun, but at the same time...you can't really tell the story in three hours. I saw it in both Toronto and London, so I saw what changes they made to it. Basically, the beginning of the story works really well. But later, when everyone splits up, it gets very confused. Rohan and Gondor are conflated into one 'kingdom of men' and it's just all very odd. I will say that in London, they did the destruction of the Ring [i]much[/i] better.

Some highlights:
[url=http://www.lotr.com/sights_sounds/audio_player.php]Lothlorien[/url] (London)

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2r_HgqohtM0]Now and For Always[/url] Frodo and Sam (Toronto, but same actors/song in London)

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NI0I_-8kRtU&feature=related]Gollum/Smeagol[/url] (Yes, it's one guy )

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7OEwk8imUo&feature=related]Star of Earendil[/url] The company leaves Rivendell (Toronto)

Gollum was awesome; the romance between Aragorn and Arwen was wince-worthy. Ents were terrible (*I* could do a better costume design, and their inclusion was pointless), Nazgul were awesome and very creepy! The balrog was fairly silly, but Shelob was as scary as a giant spider should be. The orcs were on awesome bouncy stilt things that I'd love to have the chance to walk/jump around on . The battle of Helm's Deep was fun just because of the crazy rotating/moving stage they have - it was a big part of the production. Other than that, though, the set was very minimalistic - they had a background/chorus group that was supposed to give you a feel for the setting, I guess - but people walking around holding sticks when you know they spent millions on the production just seems silly. Also...very dark (I mean, the lighting). While it had a lot of spectacle to it, I'm not sure it ever really managed to get audiences to connect to the story, which means that it (in some ways) falls flat, unfortunately. They made efforts to bleed the show into the audience, but... Still, certainly worth seeing!

Edited June 15, 2010 by MithLuin

[sistersintigo]

[quote name='MithLuin' date='14 June 2010 - 09:35 AM' timestamp='1276518907' post='2128492']
His brother was not a priest. His brother Hilary was a farmer. His eldest son John was a priest, though - is that who you meant? (I don't recall what year he died, but I know he is deceased now; he said his father's funeral mass.) Looked it up: 2001.

Yes, it was a requirement if I went to England with my friends - I had to visit Tolkien's grave in Oxford, and they had to come with me to the Lord of the Rings musical showing in London. They were good sports .

Yes, I think people leave so many things at his grave that they have to clean it off, like, weekly . I left a small green stone there that I had brought from home.
[/quote]
One of the touching things I recall is that Tolkien and his wife did not have an unearthly blissful marriage, but one that was rocky and uneven and full of human shortcomings, they had a very human/mortal marriage and yet they stuck it out. Didn't the children do a great deal to motivate them to carry on? And of course the children were essential to the story-telling that would evolve into the great books.

[Innocent]

I found this tidbit today in the comments published along with an article:



[quote]
Many years ago I corresponded with Tolkien's son, a schoolmaster like myself. He said the Dark Riders in his novel were based on a real recurring nightmare from the Forst World War. Tolkien, riding a good cavlary horse, had somehow got lost behind the German lines,and, imagining he was behind his own trenches, rode towards a group of mounted cavalrymen standing in the shade of a coppice.

It was only when he drew nearer he realised his mistake for they German Ulhans, noted for their atrocities and taking no prisoners. When they saw him they set off in pursuit with their lances levelled at him. He swung his horse round and galloped off hotly pursued by the Germans. They had faster steeds but Tolkien's horse was a big-boned hunter.

They got near enough for him to see their skull and crossbone helmet badges. Fortunately for Tolkien (and us, his readers)he raced towards some old trenches which his horse, used to hunting, took in its stride. The Uhlans' horses weren't up to it and they reined in leaving Tolkien to get away to his own side.

He was terrified and the cruel faces of those Uhlans and their badges haunted him in nightmares for a long time afterwards. Years later, when he was writing his novel, the Dark Riders were the result of that terrifying chase.
[b]Revd John Waddington-Feather, Shrewsbury[/b][/quote] SOURCE: [url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/5133000.stm"]BBC News: The Somme and Tolkien[/url]

[elizabeth09]

[img]http://cache.virtualtourist.com/1551913-grave_of_JRR_Tolkien-Oxford.jpg[/img]

Edited June 18, 2010 by elizabeth09