Smoking Weed

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='17 June 2010 - 12:49 AM' timestamp='1276750183' post='2130275']I've seen countless potheads "feen" for weed. They become irritable, easily upset, and quite unpleasant if they don't get their daily dose of pot.
[/quote]

...the same thing happens to this fat lady I work with when she doesn't get her daily donuts for breakfast

[ardillacid]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='17 June 2010 - 12:44 AM' timestamp='1276749897' post='2130272']
One joint to the face accomplishes the high unless of course one has smoke so much that no longer is the case.
[/quote]
I have no idea how many times that I've heard this. It is, of course, false. (btw, I've never heard the phrase "joint to the face") I'm interested where this idea comes from.

i'm going to assume that when you say 'high', you roughly mean the equivalent of 'drunk'. That is, you have lost your ability to reason. As I understand it, that is the primary offense: the sacrifice of the mental faculties. I can assure you (like i've already stated), being high is not an on/off switch. There is a gradual slope. For some people it might just be one joint. If that is the case, I recommend you smoke less than one joint. You will still feel some effect, but won't lose your ability to reason.

[Nihil Obstat]

So KofC, just to make sure I'm understanding you, your argument is that a single joint brings a "high" to the point of sin, morally equivalent to drinking excessively?

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='16 June 2010 - 09:44 PM' timestamp='1276749897' post='2130272']
One joint to the face accomplishes the high unless of course one has smoke so much that no longer is the case.
[/quote]

wut?



well, to point to alcohol again, one can drink and feel some of the effects without being drunk. getting a buzz, feeling like dancing, social lubrication, these all can happen without being passed out drunk and vomiting.

its harder to point to a part of smoking weed where you are definitely stoned, akin to being drunk.
This is not because weed is on/off high.
This is because there isnt really a level of stoned where you are passing out, significantly losing motor control, vomiting all over the place and waking up in strange places with strange people.

that is what the bible prescribes against, being DRUNK. the fact that marijuana doesnt have a similar experience, is a good thing. Arguably getting stoned to the point of being an eggplant with vital signs in your basement is not a great idea, but as a different substance with less harmful effects i doubt it needs to be subjected to alcohol's "Before this is fine/after this is bad" scale.

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='16 June 2010 - 09:49 PM' timestamp='1276750183' post='2130275']
Not like crack I will agree. But it is an narcotic it alters the mind, body and mood of the person and it is addictive, again not like crack but addictive. I've seen countless potheads "feen" for weed.
[/quote]

"The term [b]narcotic[/b] (pronounced [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IPA_for_English"]/nɑrˈkɒtɨk/[/url]) strictly refers (medically) to any psychoactive compound with [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opioid"]morphine-like effects[/url] (see [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opiate"]Opiate[/url]). A Narcotic is defined as a drug as opium or morphine that in moderate doses relieves pain and induces deep sleep. Excessive use can cause tremors and seizures. However, the term is also used colloquially to refer to any psychoactive drug that induces sleep. Examples of narcotics include [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morphine"]morphine[/url], [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laudanum"]laudanum[/url], and [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin"]heroin[/url]."

and, I am pretty sure you mean "fiend"

Edited June 17, 2010 by Jesus_lol

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='musturde' date='17 June 2010 - 12:25 AM' timestamp='1276748710' post='2130253']
Your boyfriend's reaction is similar the one's i've seen from people who needed a cigarette and couldn't smoke, a beer and couldn't drink, or a donut and couldn't eat. People can get addicted to just about anything.[/quote]

Ex boyfriend. Your comparisons here make little sense. Marijuana addiction cannot be compared to nicotine addiction because the former is psychological and not physical whereas the latter is both psychological and physical. A donut is not a drug so I have no clue why you threw that one in there. The only comparison that would work or be similar is beer, and the cravings of an alcoholic. But again, alcohol is psychologically and physically addictive whereas marijuana is only psychological.

[quote] Just because someone CAN get mentally addicted to something, doesn't mean the thing itself is bad. People are also addicted to the internet and exercise. Should we outlaw those things too? [/quote]

Psychological addiction is very dangerous and it comes in a variety of forms. The individual addicted to the internet will experience a decline in health due to poor eating habits and not enough sleep. The individual addicted to exercise will become weak and dehydrated. The individual addicted to marijuana will suffer a sharp decline in mood and depending upon the personality can become violent. In other words, you cannot lump different types of psychological addiction together as if they are all the same and have the same result.

[quote]Also, I think alcohol is as much of a "gateway drug" than weed but people overlook that because it's legal. If this is the same for weed, then once legalized, weed will no longer be sold by dealers and, by your argument earlier, will no longer be a "gateway drug".
[/quote]

I think you are confused about what I mean when I say "gateway drug". Well your second sentence seemed to understand but your first did not. Marijuana is a "gateway drug" [i]because[/i] it is illegal - to get your hands on marijuana you are forced to see a dealer (unless your friend did that for you) and it is very likely that that dealer sells other drugs besides marijuana. Therefore, by seeking marijuana, you increase your access to other drugs. Since alcohol can be bought on the shelves legally and no dealer is involved, it is not a "gateway drug". That is one positive for making marijuana legal - eliminating the third party, the dealer, and reducing access to other drugs. There are positives and negatives to legalizing it but in the end I think it is nonsensical to make marijuana legal while simultaneously spreading anti-smoking campaigns.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='17 June 2010 - 12:54 AM' timestamp='1276750452' post='2130280']
So KofC, just to make sure I'm understanding you, your argument is that a single joint brings a "high" to the point of sin, morally equivalent to drinking excessively?
[/quote]

Getting high is sinful that is my argument. [u]Smoking[/u] weed has no purpose other than getting high is my other point. For medical reasons there are pills that do not have the same effect of getting high.

[ardillacid]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='17 June 2010 - 12:55 AM' timestamp='1276750540' post='2130283']
Getting high is sinful that is my argument. [u]Smoking[/u] weed has no purpose other than getting high is my other point.
[/quote]
Do you believe there is no other purpose to alcohol than drunkeness?

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='16 June 2010 - 11:55 PM' timestamp='1276750540' post='2130283']
Getting high is sinful that is my argument. [u]Smoking[/u] weed has no purpose other than getting high is my other point. For medical reasons there are pills that do not have the same effect of getting high.
[/quote]
So how come I can't apply your argument to drinking?

Getting drunk is sinful. Drinking alcoholic beverages has no purpose other than getting drunk, and for medical reasons (in fact there are few if any medical reasons to drink ethanol itself) there are pills that do not have the same effect of getting drunk.

I just don't like your second premise (...no other purpose...)

Doesn't that seem like a pretty solid comparison to you?

[dominicansoul]

Vicodin made me high....and yet, it was obligatory for me to take it after surgery....the whole purpose was for me to feel good and not feel the pain...i guess i sinned

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='16 June 2010 - 10:58 PM' timestamp='1276750684' post='2130287']
So how come I can't apply your argument to drinking?

Getting drunk is sinful. Drinking alcoholic beverages has no purpose other than getting drunk, and for medical reasons (in fact there are few if any medical reasons to drink ethanol itself) there are pills that do not have the same effect of getting drunk.

I just don't like your second premise (...no other purpose...)

Doesn't that seem like a pretty solid comparison to you?
[/quote]

While I strongly disagree with KoC, I do believe many argue (and I agree) that there are health benefits to having one or two drinks regularly, without getting drunk.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='17 June 2010 - 12:54 AM' timestamp='1276750462' post='2130281']
wut?



well, to point to alcohol again, one can drink and feel some of the effects without being drunk. getting a buzz, feeling like dancing, social lubrication, these all can happen without being passed out drunk and vomiting.

its harder to point to a part of smoking weed where you are definitely stoned, akin to being drunk.
This is not because weed is on/off high.
This is because there isnt really a level of stoned where you are passing out, significantly losing motor control, vomiting all over the place and waking up in strange places with strange people.

that is what the bible prescribes against, being DRUNK. the fact that marijuana doesnt have a similar experience, is a good thing. Arguably getting stoned to the point of being an eggplant with vital signs in your basement is not a great idea, but as a different substance with less harmful effects i doubt it needs to be subjected to alcohol's "Before this is fine/after this is bad" scale.
[/quote]

One can be drunk without "passing out, significantly losing motor control, vomiting all over the place and waking up in strange places with strange people." There is a difference from being drunk and being wasted, so to is there a difference from being high and being 'stoned'. But both are wrong. Being "buzzed" or "tipsy" is the warning sign to stop.

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='dominicansoul' date='16 June 2010 - 10:58 PM' timestamp='1276750737' post='2130289']
Vicodin made me high....and yet, it was obligatory for me to take it after surgery....the whole purpose was for me to feel good and not feel the pain...i guess i sinned
[/quote]

I don't think so. Even a relatively mild reason should make it acceptable.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='goldenchild17' date='17 June 2010 - 12:00 AM' timestamp='1276750826' post='2130290']
While I strongly disagree with KoC, I do believe many argue (and I agree) that there are health benefits to having one or two drinks regularly, without getting drunk.
[/quote]
I don't think (although I may very well be wrong) that the health benefits lie in the ethanol content of the drink though, which would be a fine difference to keep in mind. For wine, for instance, I think it's something to do with the antioxidants, at least in theory.
If I'm wrong though, correct me. Doesn't change my point in any case.

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='16 June 2010 - 11:03 PM' timestamp='1276750988' post='2130295']
I don't think (although I may very well be wrong) that the health benefits lie in the ethanol content of the drink though, which would be a fine difference to keep in mind. For wine, for instance, I think it's something to do with the antioxidants, at least in theory.
If I'm wrong though, correct me. Doesn't change my point in any case.
[/quote]

I don't believe it has anything to do with the ethanol correct.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='17 June 2010 - 12:58 AM' timestamp='1276750684' post='2130287']
So how come I can't apply your argument to drinking?

Getting drunk is sinful. Drinking alcoholic beverages has no purpose other than getting drunk, and for medical reasons (in fact there are few if any medical reasons to drink ethanol itself) there are pills that do not have the same effect of getting drunk.

I just don't like your second premise (...no other purpose...)

Doesn't that seem like a pretty solid comparison to you?
[/quote]

I have never seen someone get drunk after a beer but I have seen someone get high after one joint, or rather before finishing a joint.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='goldenchild17' date='17 June 2010 - 12:05 AM' timestamp='1276751145' post='2130296']
I don't believe it has anything to do with the ethanol correct.
[/quote]
So my point would be that this seems to make alcohol look rather poorer in comparison to marijuana, because with marijuana the health benefits are directly associated with the "vehicle of inebriation", which is not the case with alcoholic drinks.

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='17 June 2010 - 12:07 AM' timestamp='1276751240' post='2130298']
I have never seen someone get drunk after a beer but I have seen someone get high after one joint, or rather before finishing a joint.
[/quote]
So how are we defining terms? Drunk generally is having passed the point of "tipsy", and entering the territory where you are losing control over your actions, which is irresponsible and dangerous. Are we going to make some distinction with marijuana, where there is some point where you're just a bit "buzzed", and then you pass that point and become truly "high" which is morally irresponsible?

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='17 June 2010 - 01:07 AM' timestamp='1276751240' post='2130298']
I have never seen someone get drunk after a beer but I have seen someone get high after one joint, or rather before finishing a joint.
[/quote]
for reals. if you smoke it and don't get high you were wasting it and are a noob (like when Bill Clinton supposedly didn't inhale). or else your dealer ripped you off big time.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='17 June 2010 - 12:54 AM' timestamp='1276750462' post='2130281']
"The term [b]narcotic[/b] (pronounced [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IPA_for_English"]/nɑrˈkɒtɨk/[/url]) strictly refers (medically) to any psychoactive compound with [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opioid"]morphine-like effects[/url] (see [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opiate"]Opiate[/url]). A Narcotic is defined as a drug as opium or morphine that in moderate doses relieves pain and induces deep sleep. Excessive use can cause tremors and seizures. However, the term is also used colloquially to refer to any psychoactive drug that induces sleep. Examples of narcotics include [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morphine"]morphine[/url], [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laudanum"]laudanum[/url], and [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin"]heroin[/url]."[/quote]

Marijuana is lawfully a narcotic, and has similarities to medical narcotics, which would be more properly known as "opioids".

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='17 June 2010 - 12:54 AM' timestamp='1276750462' post='2130281']and, I am pretty sure you mean "fiend"
[/quote]

"Feen" is the pothead way of spelling fiend. I thought I would use the slang so I would be understood.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='17 June 2010 - 12:09 AM' timestamp='1276751393' post='2130303']



"Feen" is the pothead way of spelling fiend. I thought I would use the slang so I would be understood.
[/quote]
Would that be an oh-so-subtle personal attack?

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='17 June 2010 - 01:09 AM' timestamp='1276751391' post='2130302']
for reals. if you smoke it and don't get high you were wasting it and are a noob (like when Bill Clinton supposedly didn't inhale). or else your dealer ripped you off big time.
[/quote]

You best freaking believe.