flip Posted April 15, 2004 Posted April 15, 2004 could this ever be possible? think about it: an urban mass hymns to hip hop. Fr Pontifex administering and b boys for liturgical dance we must get some pardons from the bishop im sure... do yall think it could ever be done? first Life Teen... next Phatmass!
point5 Posted April 15, 2004 Posted April 15, 2004 check your thread in the inner-faith discussion forum hip-hop mass = dope... not sure it will happen however
electricdisk Posted April 15, 2004 Posted April 15, 2004 (edited) Dear God. Please do not make my masses hip hop. Amen. === (my personal opinion) Since the Mass is the sacrifice of Christ in an unbloody manner, I think it is (and always shall be) innappropriate. I guess I always think about Jesus being on the cross (in the fullness of time) and during the mass. There weren't people be-boppin and jammin (liturgical dance et al.) at the foot of the cross at cavalry. I think mass should be reverent and holy. Remember when the priests had their back to the people? They were offering Christ (once again) to his Father in heaven, just like the priests in the Old Testament. Now that they are facing the congregation, we have somehow forgotten that point.. Picture is on its way! === Aftermass? Jump up and down and have a party! (but not in the church, cause people are still praying) Edited April 15, 2004 by electricdisk
electricdisk Posted April 16, 2004 Posted April 16, 2004 [img]http://www.electricdisk.com/ebay/mass.jpg[/img]
Livin_the_MASS Posted April 16, 2004 Posted April 16, 2004 [quote name='electricdisk' date='Apr 15 2004, 07:03 PM'][img]http://www.electricdisk.com/ebay/mass.jpg[/img][/quote] Flip, There is a time for hip hop, then a time to lock and drop on our knees begging Father Please! Mass is Sacred and will always stay this way I agree with electricdisk! In the love of Christ Jason
CatholicCrusader Posted April 16, 2004 Posted April 16, 2004 [quote]could this ever be possible? think about it: an urban mass hymns to hip hop. Fr Pontifex administering and b boys for liturgical dance we must get some pardons from the bishop im sure... do yall think it could ever be done? first Life Teen... next Phatmass![/quote] Considering what Life Teen does, that COULD happen, NOT validly or licitly, of course. That would never be possible considering what Vatican II said about the Mass. That would be sacrilegious to do. [quote]There is a time for hip hop, then a time to lock and drop on our knees begging Father Please![/quote] There is never a time for hip-hop... That picture/explanation from the Baltimore Catechism is beautiful. God bless.
Livin_the_MASS Posted April 16, 2004 Posted April 16, 2004 (edited) What do you mean CC? [quote]There is never a time for hip-hop...[/quote] Edited April 16, 2004 by Jason
CatholicCrusader Posted April 16, 2004 Posted April 16, 2004 Hip-hop and the "hip-hop culture" is in direct opposition to Faith and even anything that can be considered art or fulfilling or edifying. The Pastor at my church gave a great sermon on this one Sunday, about how music can be wrong for lyrics (which most "hip hop" is) OR by the medium over which it is played can be disedifying and therefore, wrong to listen to. He always has very good sermons, including about why women have an obligation to wear veils to Mass and in the Presence of the Blessed Sacrament as well as on modesty. His sermons are beginning to be put online (text, not in audio). The website is www.francisdesales.com. The only sermon up as of right now is form the [url="http://www.francisdesales.com/articles/sermon_chattanooga_020104.htm"]Fourth Sunday after the Epiphany[/url]. I hope that his sermon on music will be posted soon. God bless you.
Livin_the_MASS Posted April 16, 2004 Posted April 16, 2004 [quote name='CatholicCrusader' date='Apr 15 2004, 07:54 PM'] Hip-hop and the "hip-hop culture" is in direct opposition to Faith and even anything that can be considered art or fulfilling or edifying. The Pastor at my church gave a great sermon on this one Sunday, about how music can be wrong for lyrics (which most "hip hop" is) OR by the medium over which it is played can be disedifying and therefore, wrong to listen to. He always has very good sermons, including about why women have an obligation to wear veils to Mass and in the Presence of the Blessed Sacrament as well as on modesty. His sermons are beginning to be put online (text, not in audio). The website is www.francisdesales.com. The only sermon up as of right now is form the [url="http://www.francisdesales.com/articles/sermon_chattanooga_020104.htm"]Fourth Sunday after the Epiphany[/url]. I hope that his sermon on music will be posted soon. God bless you. [/quote] Dust has made it clear that this music is seperate from liturgical abuses. It is for Outside of Mass. Mass is Sacred Yes. But this music is not wrong in anyway shape or form. God can use anything He wants to proclaim the Truth to people. So since Dust has made it clear that this music does not and will not be used in the liturgy what is your point. This music is awesome and can touch a lot of people Outside of the Holy Mass. It will actually bring them to it if you ask me! Clear it up further if you do not agree CC! God Bless Jason
Apollo Posted April 16, 2004 Posted April 16, 2004 [quote]Hip-hop and the "hip-hop culture" is in direct opposition to Faith and even anything that can be considered art or fulfilling or edifying. [/quote] CatholicCrusader, I respectfully disagree. Please see linked article below. [url="http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/0...s.ap/index.html"]Click Here - The Pope Loves Hip-Hop![/url] Peace, Love...and Hip-Hop, Apollo
follow_the_pelican Posted April 16, 2004 Posted April 16, 2004 Gosh "flip", looks like you came to the wrong thread to push that idea. I side with electricdisk on this one. Hit the head on the nail, B.C. was a nice touch. As for life teen, I dont know if I am walking on thin ice, but I dont agree with a lot of there jazz. The whole circling around the alter, standing during the consecration, come on now. Please tell me that is not @ the very least disrespectfull. Any way, your thoughts ?
MC Just Posted April 16, 2004 Posted April 16, 2004 I love hip-hop, but I love the sacredness of the Mass more. I'd rather hear organs and choirs really.
dUSt Posted April 16, 2004 Posted April 16, 2004 Hip-hop has no place in the mass. Before mass? Sure. After mass? Sure. During mass? No. If phatmass is ever used as any type of tool to introduce hip-hop into the liturgy, I will shut it down. Period. I love hip-hop, but like Just said, the Sacred Liturgy takes priority. Any phatmass produced project in the future will have the following on the cover: [color=red][b]Not To Be Used In The Liturgy[/b][/color] There are plenty of places to use hip-hop as a form of catechesis in the Church, like rallies, retreats, etc, etc. There's no need to try and change the Mass. God bless.
electricdisk Posted April 16, 2004 Posted April 16, 2004 [quote name='dUSt' date='Apr 15 2004, 09:21 PM'] If phatmass is ever used as any type of tool to introduce hip-hop into the liturgy, I will shut it down. Period. [/quote] Maybe when the AYBABTU (the Phatmass version) flash thingy could be shown during the collection? === Just Kidding. Sure would be nice to revive the "Be Don't A Dope" photoshop collection of works though....hint...hint.... Think Sara could take a crack at it??? ==== Betcha you are tired and worn out from the new little tyke. I feel for you.
inDEED Posted April 16, 2004 Posted April 16, 2004 [quote name='dUSt' date='Apr 15 2004, 08:21 PM'] Hip-hop has no place in the mass. Before mass? Sure. After mass? Sure. During mass? No. If phatmass is ever used as any type of tool to introduce hip-hop into the liturgy, I will shut it down. Period. I love hip-hop, but like Just said, the Sacred Liturgy takes priority. Any phatmass produced project in the future will have the following on the cover: [color=red][b]Not To Be Used In The Liturgy[/b][/color] There are plenty of places to use hip-hop as a form of catechesis in the Church, like rallies, retreats, etc, etc. There's no need to try and change the Mass. God bless. [/quote] What about when Fr. Pontifex rapped his "Son Still Shines" track in his homily? Or when Miko did the same?
maydbyGOD Posted April 16, 2004 Posted April 16, 2004 yeah i was about to say... i feel terrible about what i did... i truly genuinely felt uncomfortable about rapping during a mass... i wrote a rhyme called "the Prodigal Son" and the Gospel reading for that Sunday was the Prodigal Son... i felt terrible and uncomfortable but i guess i was under obedience to the head chaplain/priest there at the Catholic Center.... i dunno...
flip Posted April 16, 2004 Author Posted April 16, 2004 look guys. all masses have certain cultural contexts and are adapted for the culture/language. a spanish mass is IN SPANISH. with spanish influenced music. what about African masses? since dance is such an expressive part of thier culture, they dance and sing in thier native tounge. A russian mass is in RUSSIAN with russian influenced music A german mass.... you get the point. my arguement is that HIP HOP is a culture. Most of you emcees should agree, it is one of the main tenants of the Hip Hop (jk). but it is a culture and a language. LifeTeen did just that. The found a culture of the youth, and translated mass for them, in thier tounge, and with thier music. The result? Many of kids are educated and excited about the mass! whats wrong with that??? The early church worshipped God in Hebrew and Armaic, and I bet you ONE MILLION DOLLARS that they used music influenced by thier culture. I'm sorry, but I know my God loves Hip Hop. He has given me specific gifts to worship him with, to not use those gifts would be a denial of my creation. He would not have given me the gift of rapping if he hated it. He can be glorified, revered, and worshipped through hip hop. To say that he cannot is to put a BOX on GOD. you wouldn't want to do that would you? Also, why is it ok for pianos to worship god? what about bells? are certain instruments off limits for God? The goal of the church is not reserve a particular style of music. the Goal of the church is to save people, not music. yeah, it will never happen. and you guys seem to hate the idea. i thought i would at least get a few "wouldn't that be great" replies. but honestly, this hurts my feelings. my music is just as worthy as some bell choir. I thought phatmass would understand - or did understand that. let's bridge gaps between the church and the unchurch. There might be some kids growing up in urban LA that will never understand the mass... unless someone translates for them.
dUSt Posted April 16, 2004 Posted April 16, 2004 [quote]look guys. all masses have certain cultural contexts and are adapted for the culture/language. a spanish mass is IN SPANISH. with spanish influenced music.[/quote] This is true. The Church is living and universal. It adapts to cultures. But I think there's a difference. It's possible to have reverent Spanish music. Hip-hop is not reverent. I love hip-hop, and I feel it's a wonderful way to praise God, but the mass is sacred and holy. [quote]what about African masses? since dance is such an expressive part of thier culture, they dance and sing in thier native tounge.[/quote] That's their main culture. Hip-hop is a sub-culture. First, we're Americans--that's our culture--the American culture. In our American culture, hip-hop is not viewed as sacred or holy. [quote]Also, why is it ok for pianos to worship god? what about bells? are certain instruments off limits for God? The goal of the church is not reserve a particular style of music. the Goal of the church is to save people, not music.[/quote] It's not the instrument. The instrument is really irrelevant. It's how the music makes you feel--what kind of mood it puts you in. If you were kneeling in front of the cross at Calvalry, with Jesus' bloody body hanging there, would you be playing hip-hop? That's what the mass is. [quote]yeah, it will never happen. and you guys seem to hate the idea. i thought i would at least get a few "wouldn't that be great" replies. but honestly, this hurts my feelings. my music is just as worthy as some bell choir. I thought phatmass would understand - or did understand that. let's bridge gaps between the church and the unchurch. There might be some kids growing up in urban LA that will never understand the mass... unless someone translates for them.[/quote] Like I said, there are many, many places that hip-hop can be used in the Church. The Liturgy is sacred. The mass is the participation in Christ's final sacrifice. If it was good enough for the apostles, it should be good enough for us. We need to conform to the mass, not the other way around. It's kind of like women and the priesthood. Just because women can't be priests, doesn't mean that they are inferior. They simply have a different role. There's theological reasons behind it. Same with hip-hop. Just because it isn't used in the mass, doesn't mean it's an inferior means of praising God--it just has a different place. I encourage everyone to read "The Lamb's Supper", by Scott Hahn. It's a wonderful book about the mass, and what it's really all about. I love flip. I love hip-hop. God bless.
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