If You Could Start Your Own Order...what Would It Be?

[Divine Mercy 9999]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='26 July 2010 - 05:45 PM' timestamp='1280184359' post='2148447']
Both of these communities sound wonderful!

It is SO frustrating that while my mind is active, my body has different ideas.

Even if I could get my body trained to get up at 5:00 am, then I'd have to go nap for a few hours before lunch (and probably again right after lunch). Arrgghhh.

I need an Order for women whose minds are still good--I already have a Master's and could have easily gone for a PhD, school is pretty easy for me--I graduated with honors from top schools. I still have things to offer (I've learned I am a very good teacher, but not for children), and would want a traditional order, but I can't live the regimented life--or would at least need the flexibility to join in prayers when I can and not be castigated when I can't. I have bad days and good days and I don't know until I get up in the morning (sometimes even then) which it will be. As you can tell from my posts, I have a VERY strong will so it is not laziness. Even Social Security Disability, who turns down 85% of applicants when they first apply, accepted me. Social Security has seen so many slackers they can spot one from a mile off and I'm obvisously not that. (I'm also not demented or psychotic--not that I was worried, but now it's official.)

But, the thing I miss most is community. I've gotten used to living alone, so a traditional community sounds a little overwhelming to me--I have always needed a lot of time to myself, and now I need even more. That's why I'd love a hermitage (maybe moving to a cell when the weather gets bad or if I'm going through a phase, as I was most of last Spring, where my legs were so weak I could barely walk). But, living alone, I don't eat well enough, so having a refectory with a good cook sounds like heaven, and I bet I would feel better.

And, I'd join the Community for prayers as much as possible.

But to have someone to talk to.......Heaven. But, people my age are busy with jobs, families, etc. They don't have free time to spare for themselves, much less someone like me.

I know this sounds like a retirement community, and since I need to move in the next year or so, I'll probably end up somewhere like that. But, I'm NOT elderly! And, although I enjoy the company of older people, it is also difficult because they often have hearing problems etc. Or else, they are so physically active they don't understand why I'm not. As my father keeps saying to me, "You're too young to be sick. You can't be sick until your 80's."

I'm going to stop this post because I'm starting to cry. (When I start to cry, I know I've hit an issue that is very important to me.)
And, if someone tells me to quit complaining and offer it up, my arms are still pretty strong and I'll do this.[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/getaclue.gif[/img]
[/quote]



[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/lol_grin.gif[/img] [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/lol_grin.gif[/img] [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/lol_grin.gif[/img]

That sounds like my kind of community. I'm in my mid forties and feel like I'm ninety when I see age limits ending at 35. I know that God will get me where He wants me to be, but its HARD some days.

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='laetitia crucis' date='26 July 2010 - 10:07 AM' timestamp='1280149658' post='2148187']
Oh my goodness! TB, I'd want to join this one!



Hmmmm.... or perhaps I would tweak it only slightly. I'm trying to remember that one thread where I thought about the "Dominicans of the Immaculate". I can't remember exactly what I wrote there, but I'd probably make it some kind of hybrid with yours and whatever I had written. Here are some of the "tweaks" and/or additions:

- having four vows, with the 1st being a Vow of Total Consecration to Our Lady (via de Montfort, a 3rd Order Dominican, by the way )
- semi-contemplative missionary Order, not restricted to a expansion within a singular Province
- I [b]adore[/b] the importance of traditional Thomism has in your DOLSW!!! Sooo, I'd totally have that as well!
- working along side the Dominican friars in various apostolates, whether intellectual or evangelization. I would prefer a secondary charism of evangelization through all licit means to spread devotion and love of Our Lady and traditional Thomism. SPREAD THE TRUUUUUTH!
- if sandals are chosen to be worn (alongside "sensible black lace-up shoes" ), then the sandals would be worn [i]sans[/i] socks. Hah!
- full tunic reaching [i]just above[/i] the feet
- postulants would wear habits like the Lockport Dominicans
- love the retreat apostolate you mentioned, TB!
- barefoot in the chapel
- a clear love for Lady Poverty in all communal possessions
- Oh! And I would love to bring back the wedding dress for the Investiture, exchanging the earthly wedding dress for that of the Bride of Christ!
- chanting of the Angelus (or Regina Coeli during Easter) in Latin three times throughout the day
- all Liturgy of the Hours would be taken from the [url="http://dominican-liturgy.blogspot.com/"]Antiphonarium pro Liturgia Horarum iuxta Usum Ordinis Praedicatorum[/url] (check out the left side bar for free PDFs!)

[i]Maria, Mater Vertitatis -- ora pro nobis!
Mary, Mother of Truth -- pray for us![/i]
[/quote]

I knew I forgot some stuff!!! I accept these additions full-heartedly!!! :-D

You know, LC, if things don't work out in England... Or better yet, you should go through formation and make vows, then come back here to the US and we'll get it running!! I surely should be done paying off my loans by then!!

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

Duplicate post.

Edited July 27, 2010 by IgnatiusofLoyola

[Chiara_]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='25 July 2010 - 09:05 PM' timestamp='1280106323' post='2148075']
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the cap that Passionists wear under their veil is what helps keep the veil on. (It has velcro on it.) Also, in the very conservative cloistered Passionists like the Ellisville Passionists, it covers their shaved head.

But, as I understand it (and this is where I want someone to speak up if I'm wrong), it seems like many Orders with veils wear a cap underneath it, to help hold it on--even simple veils like the Nashville Dominicans. And, when you watch the clothing ceremonies of various orders that wear wimples and guimpes, I think even they wear a cap underneath. I'm not sure all veiled Orders wear caps, however. I don't think the Sisters across the street from me, who wear a simple veil, wear a cap, but instead a wire inside the veil keeps it on.

One of the Nashville Dominicans said that if she gets sweaty during games, the cap underneath keeps the veil from getting sweaty and the cap is easily washed. Also, apparently many Orders wear a T-shirt (often a plain men's T-shirt) under the habit to keep it from getting sweaty, because, as I understand it, most Orders only change habits once a week or two (or possibly longer) and it's easier to wash and change a T-shirt every day.

Also, I think that one of the reasons that the choir stalls of many Orders of nuns/Sisters have high sides is so that the nuns/Sisters can't see the face of the Sister sitting next to them.
[/quote]


Yes but this isn't real, and I don't like the look of them as much as the look of veils without. The cloistered Passionists (the ones with the blog) have this kind of veil, as well as one of the communities in the Community of St. John.

[laetitia crucis]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' date='26 July 2010 - 08:11 PM' timestamp='1280189482' post='2148475']
I knew I forgot some stuff!!! I accept these additions full-heartedly!!! :-D

You know, LC, if things don't work out in England... Or better yet, you should go through formation and make vows, then come back here to the US and we'll get it running!! I surely should be done paying off my loans by then!!
[/quote]

It's a deal, TB! Oooh, and I forgot one last thing: SIESTA AFTER LUNCH!

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='Chiara_' date='26 July 2010 - 07:26 PM' timestamp='1280190401' post='2148478']
Yes but this isn't real, and I don't like the look of them as much as the look of veils without. The cloistered Passionists (the ones with the blog) have this kind of veil, as well as one of the communities in the Community of St. John.
[/quote]

Fair enough. This ISN'T real, so you'd find a way for the veil to stay on. (I'm not fond of look of their cap, either.) Maybe if it were in black, or maybe if it started farther back so it didn't show. There has to be a way.

[Chiara_]

[img]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_jCtbCw5H-rk/SJb1VY8T-EI/AAAAAAAADAc/aPS_2YECUXg/s400/Passionist+Nuns.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.rcan.org/images//advocate/070905a.jpg[/img]

Edited July 27, 2010 by Chiara_

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='laetitia crucis' date='26 July 2010 - 09:28 PM' timestamp='1280190505' post='2148480']
It's a deal, TB! Oooh, and I forgot one last thing: SIESTA AFTER LUNCH!
[/quote]

Haha, of course!!! siesta!!!

[krissylou]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='26 July 2010 - 06:45 PM' timestamp='1280184359' post='2148447']

And, if someone tells me to quit complaining and offer it up, my arms are still pretty strong and I'll do this.[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/getaclue.gif[/img]
[/quote]

Not in a million years.

But hmmm, I'm sure I read somewhere, somebody talking about "my yoke is easy and my burden is light."

Hmmm ... who was that?

Oh yeah. Jesus.

Religious life (by which I don't mean specifically consecrated, vowed life, but "a life of faith") is first and last and everywhere in between, about grace. Vowed, consecrated religious life certainly should be about grace.

Is there an important role for discipline, for mortification? Absolutely. A thousand times yes.

But it's about grace. God doesn't need us to do anything. God has that under control. God wants us to live in His presence, abide in His love, and participate in His mission in the way He has designed for us. And he doesn't design for us more than we can handle. He is not that kind of a God.

And, well, I could see that you might not be strong enough for, say, Maryknoll. The nature of their apostolate can be pretty rugged.

But not strong enough to withstand the rigors of a life of contemplation? Something seems seriously off with this concept. (That's NOT to say there isn't value in discipline and training. There is. But there's a difference between that and doing what you can.)

Discipline is good. But it must always be understood as an avenue of grace, not a replacement so we don't need grace. And sometimes, some elements of monastic traditions have seemed to come close to forgetting that, and that is awful. That's just exactly what Jesus was confronting in the Pharisees and he doesn't think much of it.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='krissylou' date='26 July 2010 - 08:30 PM' timestamp='1280194220' post='2148511']
Not in a million years.

But hmmm, I'm sure I read somewhere, somebody talking about "my yoke is easy and my burden is light."

Hmmm ... who was that?

Oh yeah. Jesus.

Religious life (by which I don't mean specifically consecrated, vowed life, but "a life of faith") is first and last and everywhere in between, about grace. Vowed, consecrated religious life certainly should be about grace.

Is there an important role for discipline, for mortification? Absolutely. A thousand times yes.

But it's about grace. God doesn't need us to do anything. God has that under control. God wants us to live in His presence, abide in His love, and participate in His mission in the way He has designed for us. And he doesn't design for us more than we can handle. He is not that kind of a God.

And, well, I could see that you might not be strong enough for, say, Maryknoll. The nature of their apostolate can be pretty rugged.

But not strong enough to withstand the rigors of a life of contemplation? Something seems seriously off with this concept. (That's NOT to say there isn't value in discipline and training. There is. But there's a difference between that and doing what you can.)

Discipline is good. But it must always be understood as an avenue of grace, not a replacement so we don't need grace. And sometimes, some elements of monastic traditions have seemed to come close to forgetting that, and that is awful. That's just exactly what Jesus was confronting in the Pharisees and he doesn't think much of it.
[/quote]

Thank-you for that post.

I think there should be a place in contemplative life, at least, for Sisters who physically cannot handle a rigorous, austere life style. And, to their credit, I do think that as nuns and Sisters get older or become ill, most communities make allowances for what they can and can't do and take care of them with love.

But not for a person just joining a community. Although it would logically seem that a contemplative Order should have the possibility of being less rigorous, many contemplative Orders have a very rigorous horarium--rising at midnight to pray, getting by on little sleep, strict requirements to be with the community during prayer times, penances such as limiting their diet, etc. That's not say that it shouldn't be that way. These nuns are able to accomplish much more for the world with their prayers and their life than I ever will.

Some communities have less rigorous or penitential lifestyles. But, I have yet to see an horarium that either has the schedule or the flexibility my health would need. Certainly I could join a lay Order. But, what help is that if you can't physically make it to the meetings, and couldn't sit through a meeting of several hours even if you could find someone to drive you there? That leaves me the option of being a hermit, which is essentially the life I am living now.

God allowed this to happen to teach me a lesson I desperately needed to learn--humility and kindness. One by one he has removed from my life all the things that were so important to me--first my husband, then my health, then my job, then my friends, and my health has continued to get worse, although it seems to have mostly hit a plateau for right now. (I never had a loving family, so I shouldn't miss it, but I do.) Now, I have to learn the lesson of bearing the burden as if it is light--and actually feeling that it is light. But, right now, every day feels like a penance--I can't imagine imposing more penances on myself beyond the ones already I know are ahead of me. I don't think I could handle any more penance anyway, either physically or emotionally.

So, I just get through each day the best I can, hoping that I can do at least a tiny bit of good for the world, and trying not to worry too much about the future. "Offering it up" was not a concept I grew up with, so it is very foreign to me. I still don't understand it, so not surprisingly, I'm a dismal failure even when I try.

Sorry, I'm doing it again. For whatever reason, I'm having a tough day today emotionally. I'll shut up. Everyone here has their own burdens, that are no less than mine, and many are greater.

Edited July 27, 2010 by IgnatiusofLoyola

[JTheresa]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='26 July 2010 - 06:45 PM' timestamp='1280184359' post='2148447']
I'm going to stop this post because I'm starting to cry. (When I start to cry, I know I've hit an issue that is very important to me.)
And, if someone tells me to quit complaining and offer it up, my arms are still pretty strong and I'll do this.[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/getaclue.gif[/img]
[/quote]


[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='27 July 2010 - 12:08 AM' timestamp='1280203685' post='2148586']
Sorry, I'm doing it again. For whatever reason, I'm having a tough day today emotionally. I'll shut up. Everyone here has their own burdens, that, in their own way, are no less than mine, and many are greater.
[/quote]

We all have our own burdens, yes, but we are all here to support each other in them, especially in regards to the religious life and with religious vocation. How can we help ifd we dont share?
So don't shut up! At least, I like your posts. And at least I know to pray for you when you need it. How would I know if you didn't show it?

[Luigi]

[quote name='krissylou' date='26 July 2010 - 12:00 PM' timestamp='1280160046' post='2148233']
I thought the Sisters of Charity's headpiece (Victorian bonnet) was kind of strange -- until I saw the whatever-the-heck-that-is that the Vincentian Daughters of Charity used.

Oh my.

I would suggest that you not bring that back. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/P.gif[/img]
[/quote]

I wouldn't bring it back since I'd be founding a men's order, but I do like the idea of annual vows. BTW, "the whatever-the-heck-that-is" that they wore was a variation on the typical head dress of Dutch women back then. If you look at painting by Vermeer and other 17th/18th century Dutch artists, the women wear stiffly starched linen in the most...I suppose the word would be [i]unique[/i]...configurations. And most habits began as the typical outfits of women in the time & place where the order was founded - with some customizing, of course.

[Luigi]

My order would be largely female Jesuits too. (I really should explore the women's communities that are Ignatian. And I do like that they were established as their own communities -- which means they have women leadership -- rather than being under the authority of the men, as is the case for Dominicans or Carmelites.) Something of an emphasis on education and scholarship, but possibilities of all sorts of different apostolates. Finding God in all things.

Very modified habit -- or maybe it would be optional (like in a lot of communities the younger sisters don't wear habits but for the Golden Jubilarians some of them wear habits and some don't -- we'd be like that but across the age range) or maybe we'd wear habits sometimes, when it's particularly appropriate, but it wouldn't be a second skin. There can be value in having a "uniform" but habits would not be blessed and considered sacramentals. They're just clothes.

Live in community. Pray the morning and night prayers of the Daily Office together (if you're absent sometimes that's okay) -- most people will be out doing stuff during the day so pray the noon prayers on your own.

Active and vibrant lay branch in partnership with the consecrated religious.

Maybe my thoughts would be more suited to a "secular institute" than a "religious congregation" -- all the different categories confuse me sometimes. But whatever category it goes in, that's what I'd choose.
[/quote]

The Religious of the Sacred Heart of Jesus sound a lot like what you're describing. Their foundress was Sophie Barat, and her brother was a Jesuit - all of her spiritual advisors in the endeavor of founding the rscj's were Jesuits. They do live in community, pray morning and night prayers, they're heavy into education but it runs K through college. They don't wear habits as a general rule any more - their headpiece back in the old days was almost as silly as that of the Daughters of Charity of St. Vincent De Paul.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='Luigi' date='26 July 2010 - 11:28 PM' timestamp='1280204896' post='2148604']
My order would be largely female Jesuits too. (I really should explore the women's communities that are Ignatian. And I do like that they were established as their own communities -- which means they have women leadership -- rather than being under the authority of the men, as is the case for Dominicans or Carmelites.) Something of an emphasis on education and scholarship, but possibilities of all sorts of different apostolates. Finding God in all things.

Very modified habit -- or maybe it would be optional (like in a lot of communities the younger sisters don't wear habits but for the Golden Jubilarians some of them wear habits and some don't -- we'd be like that but across the age range) or maybe we'd wear habits sometimes, when it's particularly appropriate, but it wouldn't be a second skin. There can be value in having a "uniform" but habits would not be blessed and considered sacramentals. They're just clothes.

Live in community. Pray the morning and night prayers of the Daily Office together (if you're absent sometimes that's okay) -- most people will be out doing stuff during the day so pray the noon prayers on your own.

Active and vibrant lay branch in partnership with the consecrated religious.

Maybe my thoughts would be more suited to a "secular institute" than a "religious congregation" -- all the different categories confuse me sometimes. But whatever category it goes in, that's what I'd choose.
[/quote]

[quote]The Religious of the Sacred Heart of Jesus sound a lot like what you're describing. Their foundress was Sophie Barat, and her brother was a Jesuit - all of her spiritual advisors in the endeavor of founding the rscj's were Jesuits. They do live in community, pray morning and night prayers, they're heavy into education but it runs K through college. They don't wear habits as a general rule any more - their headpiece back in the old days was almost as silly as that of the Daughters of Charity of St. Vincent De Paul.
[/quote]

[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif[/img] Read your post again, Luigi. Somehow the quotes got messed up, so until you get to the end of the post, it sounds as if your ideal Order would be made up of female Jesuits. An excellent choice of female companionship--always something to talk about with intelligent women. But, probably a litttle "advanced" to be a recognized community under the current Pope.

Have you ever thought of becoming Mormon?

Edited July 27, 2010 by IgnatiusofLoyola

[Luigi]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='27 July 2010 - 12:35 AM' timestamp='1280205307' post='2148608']
[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif[/img] Read your post again, Luigi. Somehow the quotes got messed up, so until you get to the end of the post, it sounds as if your ideal Order would be made up of female Jesuits. An excellent choice of female companionship--always something to talk about with intelligent women. But, probably a litttle "advanced" to be a recognized community under the current Pope.

Have you ever thought of becoming Mormon?
[/quote]

Indeed something got messed up - the first half is a quote from Krissylou, but it doesn't show as such. Good catch.

[krissylou]

[quote name='Luigi' date='27 July 2010 - 12:28 AM' timestamp='1280204896' post='2148604']
The Religious of the Sacred Heart of Jesus sound a lot like what you're describing. Their foundress was Sophie Barat, and her brother was a Jesuit - all of her spiritual advisors in the endeavor of founding the rscj's were Jesuits. They do live in community, pray morning and night prayers, they're heavy into education but it runs K through college. They don't wear habits as a general rule any more - their headpiece back in the old days was almost as silly as that of the Daughters of Charity of St. Vincent De Paul.
[/quote]

Ooh! Oooh! And they have Associates and one of their Associates groups is near me! I will need to check them out! Thanks!

[krissylou]

Okay, universe. How come I am just learning in the last year or so that there are heavily Jesuit-influenced women's orders? HOW COME?

I did twelve years of Catholic school. I ran the Catholic campus ministry in college. I tend to be pretty well informed. I read things. This could potentially have been extremely interesting information to me a decade ago. And I had no clue.

Admittedly, I was never even semi-seriously discerning. But still. Absolutely no clue.



Now to make a list and look at Associates' programs.

[krissylou]

Ah, and when there are women religious at, say, Jesuit retreat centers they are often CSJs or RSCJ's.



But now I am

Sorry. Continue.

[HollyDolly]

Ignastius, In the book Convent Life by Joan Lexau and Guide to Catholic Sisterhoods in the United States by the Rev.Thomas P.McCarthy, was listed the Congregation of Jesus Crucified,who I think are now known as the Benedictines of Jesus Crucified.They were founded in France and accept candidates whose health is not good, and the sisters work at various ministries that their health allows.They are contemplative but not as rigourus as say the Carmelites, Cistercians,etc. There is also the American Beguines.I forgot their web address but I'm not sure how their living arrangements are, if they are like the ones in Belgium and the Netherlands, a few of which still exist.
If I founded a community, I would dedicate it to Our Lord and Our Lady and St.Germaine of Pibrac,who is a patron of abused children,and for whom the community would be named. We would provide shelters for children
battered women, pregnant teens and eldery, especially in cases of child and elder abuse.
We could provide pre natal and other care to mothers and give classes on child care to both parents.
and help out families anyway we could.Actually we would provide help to anyone, but especially the young.And we would allow pets.And if we had enough room at the motherhouse, maybe we could also take in animals too,like a little annimal sanctuary. Just a thought .

[vee]

[quote name='JTheresa' date='26 July 2010 - 11:16 PM' timestamp='1280204213' post='2148591']
We all have our own burdens, yes, but we are all here to support each other in them, especially in regards to the religious life and with religious vocation. How can we help ifd we dont share?
So don't shut up! At least, I like your posts. And at least I know to pray for you when you need it. How would I know if you didn't show it?
[/quote]

This.

Also, IofL, when you were writing how you lost your job, husband, etc I was reminded of one of my favorite Bible passages. Hosea 2:14 I will allure her into the desert and speak tenderly to her" When things werent going as I wanted them in my life and God starting taking things away, like friends, the job I wanted etc I said why God why and that verse came up.