Dead Giveaways (Of A Linguistic Nature)

[Tridenteen]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='05 August 2010 - 12:19 AM' timestamp='1280985577' post='2152519']
No but there has been (and there is every once in a while) as of late a group of people that think that Phatmass is about them and that needs to change.

I will say it again, I think that the random use of latin is not inviting to others. If KofC, tridenteen, and others think that it is the best way to promote Catholicism, that's great. I suggest y'all start your own website and speak as much latin as you want. Now some might say its not my site either and this is true. But there have been more people who have asked you to stop than there are who are following the practice and your response has been "Google it". Which is tantamount to "I don't care what you think".
[/quote]


JMJ
And so it was that one qword changed the world.
I think I'll stay[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/happy.gif[/img]

[Lil Red]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='04 August 2010 - 03:29 PM' timestamp='1280960982' post='2152279']
That has not been my argument. Only that the use of Latin is good and should not be suppressed.
[/quote]
@@ whatever.

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='04 August 2010 - 06:41 PM' timestamp='1280972462' post='2152380']I refuse to cease my love for the Language of Mother Church, it's really too bad my small use of her sacred language offends you.[/quote]
i don't think that's what she was saying?

[quote name='MissScripture' date='04 August 2010 - 07:17 PM' timestamp='1280974677' post='2152405']If you read the posts by the person, all she asked was that a translation be provided, because she was feeling left out. She was responded to with nothing but snarkiness and attitude. Kinda sad for a place that calls itself Catholic, if you ask me.[/quote]
yup.

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' date='04 August 2010 - 08:21 PM' timestamp='1280978510' post='2152458']This is the kind of thread that reminds me that this Phatmass is not the same website I joined on 22 July 2007.[/quote]
you know, in the past, i've always disagreed with statements such as these. but more and more, i'm beginning to think you are right.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Tridenteen' date='04 August 2010 - 08:17 PM' timestamp='1280978251' post='2152454']I am also thinking that poeople who don't speak Latin who find this might think "Wow, that looks cool, wonder what it means." Then they might get interested in looking into the Latin Mass. [/quote]
you think someone reading a random phrase is going to think "wow, what is that? i wanna be a Catholic now!"?

[Lil Red]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='04 August 2010 - 06:47 PM' timestamp='1280972879' post='2152387']
I never understood what the big deal was myself. A Latin word here and a Latin phrase there will not kill anyone.
[/quote]
nope, it won't. if someone writes in a foreign language, i usually skip it because i think they must be talking to a specific group of people, certainly not me, and don't want nor need my opinion.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Lil Red' date='05 August 2010 - 11:55 AM' timestamp='1281023720' post='2152627']
nope, it won't. if someone writes in a foreign language, i usually skip it because i think they must be talking to a specific group of people, certainly not me, and don't want nor need my opinion.
[/quote]

That would be a good practice if the entire post was in the foreign language. But if someone includes "Salve!" or "Pax!" or "Deo gratias!" in their post, that is not the same thing.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='05 August 2010 - 09:06 AM' timestamp='1281024400' post='2152633']
That would be a good practice if the entire post was in the foreign language. But if someone includes "Salve!" or "Pax!" or "Deo gratias!" in their post, that is not the same thing.
[/quote]
when i first got here (so many moons ago), i didn't know ANY Latin, none. so when it was even just one word - i ignored that post.

now that i've been here a little longer, i know a little more than i did, but even so, there is a lot of posts that have one phrase that i don't understand that i just will ignore.

and yes, i will freely admit i am way too lazy to open up a new tab and Google a phrase.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='05 August 2010 - 09:06 AM' timestamp='1281024400' post='2152633']
That would be a good practice if the entire post was in the foreign language. But if someone includes "Salve!" or "Pax!" or "Deo gratias!" in their post, that is not the same thing.
[/quote]
and btw, i still wasn't sure about "Salve", so i did skip that part of your post. (until just now when i googled it. i wasn't connecting it to salve regina and so had a total brain f[u][/u]art about what it meant). but usually, i wouldn't take the time to look it up.

[KnightofChrist]

Catholics and Non-Catholics should not get bent out of shape because a Catholic(s) uses a small Latin phrase or word. It is no more rude or uncharitable for a Latin Catholic to use small Latin phrases than it is for a Spanish American to use some Spanish phrases.

Question to the Mods. Is it or is it not the policy of this Phorum to ban and suppress small uses of Latin? Should Latin Catholics who love Latin, where Latin is basically ingrained in them, be censored when the do use Latin? Is it or is it not the policy of this Phorum that one Latin word, and short Latin phrases are viewed as rude and uncharitable? Is the small use of Latin that harmful and offensive?

Edited August 5, 2010 by KnightofChrist

[Lil Red]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='05 August 2010 - 09:51 AM' timestamp='1281027114' post='2152683']
Question to the Mods. Is it or is it not the policy of this Phorum to banned and suppress small uses of Latin? Should Latin Catholics who love Latin, where Latin is basically ingrained in them, be censored when the do use Latin. Is it or is it not the policy of this Phorum that one Latin word, and short Latin phrases are viewed as rude and uncharitable? Is the small use of Latin that harmful and offensive?
[/quote]
we've never said that. ever. some of us may have agreed with others when asking for a translation to be provided. some mods may have agreed that some people here are being rude. and latin isn't a characteristic (grr, that's not the word i want) that you couldn't be parted with like race or gender, so don't put them on the same level. don't be a twit.

so, should mods post a warning at the top of every post that isn't official mod action:

"this post may not reflect official opinion of the moderating team. this post is the personal opinion of the poster, not of phatmass as a whole."

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Lil Red' date='05 August 2010 - 01:13 PM' timestamp='1281028406' post='2152698']
we've never said that. ever. some of us may have agreed with others when asking for a translation to be provided. some mods may have agreed that some people here are being rude. and latin isn't a characteristic (grr, that's not the word i want) that you couldn't be parted with like race or gender, so don't put them on the same level. don't be a twit.

so, should mods post a warning at the top of every post that isn't official mod action:

"this post may not reflect the moderating team. this post is the personal opinion of the poster, not of phatmass as a whole."
[/quote]

I'm not being a twit. I am sincerely asking a question, more than one mod has expressed a view that the use of small Latin phrases is rude and uncharitable because visitors may not feel welcomed. When mods start making such claims it is right to ask if it is going to be enforced. Because I like, no I love Latin, I love to incorporate it in my daily life when I can, I do not want to have to worry that I will be warned because I used one Latin word or small phrase. While some catholics COULD BE using Latin rudly the complaints are more than they should be, for something that they cannot prove other than being a vague could be, the complaints are not at all proportional to the 'crime'. What caused all the nonsense in this thread was ONE word. ONE word. Which was so close to the English that it was mistaken as a typo.

Edited August 5, 2010 by KnightofChrist

[Tridenteen]

[quote name='Lil Red' date='05 August 2010 - 10:54 AM' timestamp='1281023648' post='2152626']
you think someone reading a random phrase is going to think "wow, what is that? i wanna be a Catholic now!"? [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif[/img]
[/quote]


JMJ
ok, but neither is someone who reads a word or two of latin going to call the phorum unchristian and forever not read it.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Tridenteen' date='05 August 2010 - 10:32 AM' timestamp='1281029540' post='2152715']
JMJ
ok, but neither is someone who reads a word or two of latin going to call the phorum unchristian and forever not read it.
[/quote]
[i]this post is the personal opinion of the poster, not of the mods[/i]

no, they probably will skip over the whole post. which is probably not the intent of the poster who wrote the Latin phrase/word.

[ardillacid]

[quote name='Tridenteen' date='05 August 2010 - 01:32 PM' timestamp='1281029540' post='2152715']
JMJ
ok, but neither is someone who reads a word or two of latin going to call the phorum unchristian and forever not read it.
[/quote]
I must have missed the post where someone claimed that.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='05 August 2010 - 10:27 AM' timestamp='1281029226' post='2152712']
I'm not being a twit. I am sincerely asking a question, more than one mod has expressed a view that the use of small Latin phrases is rude and uncharitable because visitors may not feel welcomed. When mods start making such claims it is right to ask if it is going to be enforced. Because I like, no I love Latin, I love to incorporate it in my daily life when I can, I do not want to have to worry that I will be warned because I used one Latin word or small phrase. While some catholics COULD BE using Latin rudly the complaints are more than they should be, for something that they cannot prove other than being a vague could be, the complaints are not at all proportional to the 'crime'. What caused all the nonsense in this thread was ONE word. ONE word. Which was so close to the English that it was mistaken as a typo.
[/quote]
[i]this post is the personal opinion of the poster, not of the mods[/i]

i'm glad you LOVE Latin. not everyone does. and do you sincerely think you will be warned for using Latin? are you deliberately being thick? do the [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?app=forums&module=extras&section=boardrules"]guidelines[/url] say anything about not using Latin? has anyone ever gotten warned/edited/banned/suspended for using Latin? (unless it was a swear word or an insult, i doubt it.) i'm sorry that some mods express their personal opinion. we'll rectify that just for you since you have a hearty dislike of any mod expressing their personal opinion when you disagree with it. we'll get right on that. kthxbye

[Tridenteen]

JMJ
read and all will be clear

[Tridenteen]

[quote name='Lil Red' date='05 August 2010 - 12:39 PM' timestamp='1281029978' post='2152723']
[i]this post is the personal opinion of the poster, not of the mods[/i]

i'm glad you LOVE Latin. not everyone does. and do you sincerely think you will be warned for using Latin? [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif[/img] are you deliberately being thick? do the [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?app=forums&module=extras&section=boardrules"]guidelines[/url] say anything about not using Latin? has anyone ever gotten warned/edited/banned/suspended for using Latin? (unless it was a swear word or an insult, i doubt it.) i'm sorry that some mods express their personal opinion. we'll rectify that just for you since you have a hearty dislike of any mod expressing their personal opinion when you disagree with it. we'll get right on that. kthxbye
[/quote]


JMJ
And so it should be for people who don't like latin and have a cow when it is used. I don't get it?

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Lil Red' date='05 August 2010 - 01:35 PM' timestamp='1281029709' post='2152717']
[i]this post is the personal opinion of the poster, not of the mods[/i]

no, they probably will skip over the whole post. which is probably not the intent of the poster who wrote the Latin phrase/word.
[/quote]

So if I began a post with "Salve!" and the proceeded on in English to, say, welcome a new member - the individual would honestly not read my post? Because of one Latin word which, given the context, is pretty easy to figure out? That seems to be an issue for the individual to work out, not the person using the word.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Lil Red' date='05 August 2010 - 01:39 PM' timestamp='1281029978' post='2152723']
[i]this post is the personal opinion of the poster, not of the mods[/i]

i'm glad you LOVE Latin. not everyone does. and do you sincerely think you will be warned for using Latin? are you deliberately being thick? do the [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?app=forums&module=extras&section=boardrules"]guidelines[/url] say anything about not using Latin? has anyone ever gotten warned/edited/banned/suspended for using Latin? (unless it was a swear word or an insult, i doubt it.) i'm sorry that some mods express their personal opinion. we'll rectify that just for you since you have a hearty dislike of any mod expressing their personal opinion when you disagree with it. we'll get right on that. kthxbye
[/quote]

When these "arguments" over a Latin word or phrase spring up, some moderators agree with those members who claim Latin use (despite how little it IS used) excludes non-Catholics and even Catholics who know zilch about the language. Moreover, since these "arguments" are reoccurring, it is not that far-fetched to wonder if Latin use will be limited or even restricted outside of scholarly discussions - for the sake of preventing arguments (just as Catholics are not allowed to debate Church doctrine with one another).

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Lil Red' date='05 August 2010 - 01:39 PM' timestamp='1281029978' post='2152723']
[i]this post is the personal opinion of the poster, not of the mods[/i]

i'm glad you LOVE Latin. not everyone does. and do you sincerely think you will be warned for using Latin? are you deliberately being thick? do the [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?app=forums&module=extras&section=boardrules"]guidelines[/url] say anything about not using Latin? has anyone ever gotten warned/edited/banned/suspended for using Latin? (unless it was a swear word or an insult, i doubt it.) i'm sorry that some mods express their personal opinion. we'll rectify that just for you since you have a hearty dislike of any mod expressing their personal opinion when you disagree with it. we'll get right on that. kthxbye
[/quote]

The guidelines forbid rude and uncharitable comments. The short use of Latin has been labeled rude and uncharitable to visitors by certain Mods. One is right to be cautious, it is only logical to be concerned that one could be breaking the rules against rude and uncharitable comments when Latin is labeled as such by Mods.

The Church also loves Latin, she uses it and other non-English languages in her liturgy. To those just coming into the Church who do not understand those languages may feel uncomfortable and out of place at times. However it would be wrong from them to demand the Church change to suit them. In like manner because this is a Latin Catholic Phorum it is similarly wrong for visitors to come in and demand Latin Catholics cease using small Latin words or phrases. It is also wrong for those small Latin phrases to be labeled rude and uncharitable just because a visitor doesn't understand them. As I stated before if any person does not understand a Latin word(s) I may use all they need to is ask and I will give them a translation. That seems to be a good and acceptable compromise.

Edited August 5, 2010 by KnightofChrist

[Lil Red]

i'm going to quote Icey here:

[quote name='IcePrincessKRS' date='05 August 2010 - 10:42 AM' timestamp='1281030153' post='2152727']
Also, being a moderator isn't easy because we have to try and appease everyone around here, and when we do edit people they often think we have some personal vendetta against them. Believe me, if there was someone I didn't like I would deliberately NOT edit them because I wouldn't want that clash to be hurled against me as a reason for an "unfair" warning. [b]The mod team looks at all reports and warns as a group and tries to come to a unanimous decision on how to resolve those matters.[/b] There have been many times when I thought something crossed the line and the other mods told me I was on crack. It happens and we move on. Sometimes people think we have moderated unfairly, which is why we always try to give benefit of a doubt and show mercy as often as possible (that's kind of a bad way to phrase that, "mercy", but I can't think of a better one right this moment).
[/quote]
i'm going to go ahead and say that if i ever said to the other mods:

'hey, this latin stuff is bullpoopy and has to go and everyone who uses it should get warned/edited'

they would pretty much tell me i'm out of my head.