Gay And Interracial Marriage

[missionseeker]

It is interesting that you would use the examples that you have when arguing for the legality of gay marriage. All of the examples are between two *different* races, or ages, or species, while gay marriage is the question of marriage between two of the same sex.

[Bennn]

Same sex pseudomarriage is morally unacceptible and therefore should be punished by law. I do not see what could be immoral about an interracial marriage. On the contrary, is this not a reflection of the biblical prophecy, which says that God has ransomed Himself a people from all the nations and races of the earth?

Also, when 'political justice' is injust in the eyes of the Lord, I refuse to let it bind me. There is no way that false marriages should have a 'right' of existence. Error has no rights.

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='missionseeker' timestamp='1281795790' post='2157123']
It is interesting that you would use the examples that you have when arguing for the legality of gay marriage. All of the examples are between two *different* races, or ages, or species, while gay marriage is the question of marriage between two of the same sex.
[/quote]

It is difficult to come up with a metaphor/compare and contrast for something that exactly mirrors the subject without just referring to itself. in legal terms some of those can be compared.

and with discussing species, actually it was you guys arguing AGAINST gay marriage that keep using that comparison. and that particular example is probably the farthest removed from the original subject of them all, as it isnt even between two humans.

And same with the different ages, the guys speaking against gay marriage are the ones trotting out those weak comparisons.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1281807599' post='2157262']
It is difficult to come up with a metaphor/compare and contrast for something that exactly mirrors the subject without just referring to itself. in legal terms some of those can be compared.

and with discussing species, actually it was you guys arguing AGAINST gay marriage that keep using that comparison. and that particular example is probably the farthest removed from the original subject of them all, as it isnt even between two humans.

And same with the different ages, the guys speaking against gay marriage are the ones trotting out those weak comparisons.
[/quote]

The comparisons aren't weak, the trouble is those that support sodomitic relationships cant deal with the logical reality that by support such of unions they are destroying the boundaries of morality. When that is done everything is subjective and anything goes.

Edited August 14, 2010 by KnightofChrist

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1281808195' post='2157273']
The comparisons aren't weak, the trouble is those that support sodomitic relationships cant deal with the logical reality that by support such of unions they are destroying the boundaries of morality. When that is done everything is subjective and anything goes.
[/quote]


no, im pretty sure the problem is that they are weak. your lack of a problem with them is because they argue for your side, and you would tear apart any analogy this weak if it didnt agree with you.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1281813271' post='2157327']
no, im pretty sure the problem is that they are weak. your lack of a problem with them is because they argue for your side, and you would tear apart any analogy this weak if it didnt agree with you.
[/quote]

The weakness is in your mortality. Having destroyed a main outer wall of mortality which protects from the dark sea of immortality, that sea will easily break down and destroy whatever walls that are left and drown whatever is left of mortality. You are not logical, you cannot take a cornerstone and reasonably believe the foundation to stand.

[CatherineM]

I think more than anything, it has to do with being authentic to the way you were created. Gay marriages are the equivalent of playing house when you were kids. It isn't real. It's trying to pretend. It's a shadow of an authentic, sacramental marriage. We shouldn't promote, as a society, people living a lie.

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1281814177' post='2157333']
The weakness is in your mortality. Having destroyed a main outer wall of mortality which protects from the dark sea of immortality, that sea will easily break down and destroy whatever walls that are left and drown whatever is left of mortality. You are not logical, you cannot take a cornerstone and reasonably believe the foundation to stand.
[/quote]

I suspect you meant to repeatedly say "Morality" and "Immorality". Otherwise it would be the first time ive heard of Immortality being a "dark sea"

so this is a slippery slope argument?

firstly, i was never arguing for gay marriage. At first it was merely my intention to state, correctly so, that at least legally, there is no real comparison between consensual gay sex and pedophilia/bestiality. Arguing this point would be a bad move for you.

If you want to make a case for gay marriage being illegal, you have plenty of ammo on your side to do so without bringing in the "slippery slope" garbage.

"allowing gay marriage will lead to allowing bestiality just like allowing women to vote lead to allowing hamsters to vote."

Legally, there is little to go against allowing gay marriage and even less to go against allowing civil unions between gay couples.
Your arguments will most likely have to stand on morality's legs..

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1281839082' post='2157538']
I suspect you meant to repeatedly say "Morality" and "Immorality". Otherwise it would be the first time ive heard of Immortality being a "dark sea" [/quote]

As long as you understand.

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1281839082' post='2157538']so this is a slippery slope argument?

firstly, i was never arguing for gay marriage. At first it was merely my intention to state, correctly so, that at least legally, there is no real comparison between consensual gay sex and pedophilia/bestiality. Arguing this point would be a bad move for you.

If you want to make a case for gay marriage being illegal, you have plenty of ammo on your side to do so without bringing in the "slippery slope" garbage.

"allowing gay marriage will lead to allowing bestiality just like allowing women to vote lead to allowing hamsters to vote."

Legally, there is little to go against allowing gay marriage and even less to go against allowing civil unions between gay couples.
Your arguments will most likely have to stand on morality's legs..
[/quote]

The Law must be based in morality. That is the point of law, what is immoral is illegal. Stealing is immoral thus it is illegal. Law must be based on the moral law.

Again your illogical argument if you do or do not actually agree with or argue in favor of Sodomitic unions, is a logic that is crushed by the "slippery slope" 'garbage'. Once a foundation of the moral law is lifted and ripped from state law there is no objective reason not to lift others. Bestiality goes against the moral law, sodomy goes against the moral law. If state law is to be void of objective morality both logically must be legal otherwise you are just forcing your subjective opinion on others.

Edited August 15, 2010 by KnightofChrist

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1281839082' post='2157538']
At first it was merely my intention to state, correctly so, that at least legally, there is no real comparison between consensual gay sex and pedophilia/bestiality. Arguing this point would be a bad move for you.
[/quote]

What of the comparison between same-sex marriage and incestuous marriage? Both involve consensual adults.

[Tridenteen]

[quote name='Resurrexi' timestamp='1281068423' post='2153107']
Guys, I think that what we need to do is to be accepting and inclusive of all different people, no matter what their lifestyles are. Isn't that what Buddha and Mohammad would do? We need to be a united force against all homophobia and discrimination, or else the forces of tolerance and communal sharing will be impeded from spreading to all countries throughout our environmentally endangered planet.


[/quote]


JMJ
I just want to say. Rexi is so right. From now on I will only use detergent that is whale friendly, air fresheners that attract mosquitos, and will burn all garbage in from the can, so as to reduce landfills.

end of transmission

PS
gay marriage is bad, that's all I have to say on the topic. oh, polygamy stinks, too.

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='HisChildForever' timestamp='1281841594' post='2157554']
What of the comparison between same-sex marriage and incestuous marriage? Both involve consensual adults.
[/quote]

well, firstly i would say most incestuous relation ships involve neither full consent nor both partners being adults.

But you are right, that is a closer comparison, that isnt so easy to refute. To some extent it could be argued that the production of children with serious mutations/disorders would be hurting others outside of the couple getting married. And historically and in modern times, incest has been considered extremely taboo and more ripping of the social fabric than non-incestuous gay relationships, but again, not a very strong argument.

It probably would have to be subject to a subjective moral outlook. The problem would be choosing who's moral outlook to model after. Despite how obviously 100% truth the catholic church's teachings appear to catholics, need to do a bit more work before it can be proven in a way that does not involve God.

Not too many scientific theses would pass muster if they focused the report on the assumption that an as-of-yet undiscovered element both exists and reacts in a certain way.

[Resurrexi]

I seek to impose my beliefs upon others, and I will vote accordingly.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1281851103' post='2157634']
well, firstly i would say most incestuous relation ships involve neither full consent nor both partners being adults.

But you are right, that is a closer comparison, that isnt so easy to refute. To some extent it could be argued that the production of children with serious mutations/disorders would be hurting others outside of the couple getting married. And historically and in modern times, incest has been considered extremely taboo and more ripping of the social fabric than non-incestuous gay relationships, but again, not a very strong argument.

It probably would have to be subject to a subjective moral outlook. The problem would be choosing who's moral outlook to model after. Despite how obviously 100% truth the catholic church's teachings appear to catholics, need to do a bit more work before it can be proven in a way that does not involve God.

Not too many scientific theses would pass muster if they focused the report on the assumption that an as-of-yet undiscovered element both exists and reacts in a certain way.
[/quote]

Science does not teach morals, nor does it teach rights and wrongs when it comes to morality. In Science emotions and 'morals' are reduce to chemical reactions in the brain and body. You cannot prove you love your mother or wife or child by the scientific method. You cannot prove murder is wrong by the scientific method. On a purely scientific basis what we know as murder is simply part of the survival of the fitness one animal terminating the biological functions of another animal. What we know as stealing would also be nothing more than another part of the survival of the fitness playing itself out. If there is any moral to Science and the survival of the fitness it is that the weak die, or die out and the strong survive and reproduce. By such standards Sodomitic unions would be a great weakness and counter to nature since such unions would fail to produce offspring. But then again void of God that wouldn't much matter there would be no objective point to existence, and no objective morality of any kind. Including murder, rape, cannibalism, homosexuality, incest and so on.

[Bennn]

Catholics should not try to separate God from morality in order to 'prove' their points. We must preach the words of life and God will do the rest. It has always been this way and it will not change. To say that we should try to prove the immorality without involving God is gravely erroneous, as if we think we can convert others without the working of the Holy Spirit.