Gay And Interracial Marriage

[yoda]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1286512177' post='2178481']
The Church doesn't cast out sinners, otherwise, I'd never be allowed in the door. We can love a sinner without loving their sinful life. We certainly shouldn't give material aid to them in continuing in their sinful life. It's a half-life. If we love them, we should want them to have a full life, a whole life, and a healthy, authentic life.
[/quote]

I didnt mean it in that sense that they just shun them, Im aware that we all make mistakes. I dont think you are able to judge that its only a "half-life", if it was stated that having a cat is a sin because it is not a dog and youve grown with it would you really get rid of it? or hope that people are accepting enough to understand you love something with all your heart because thats just the way things work. Gay marriages arent aiding to leading someone to a "sinful life", its simply giving them the freedom and chance of being happy and attempting to live a normal life as best they can with the circumstances theyve been given. BUT if someone is parading around trying to turn everyone gay and acts obnoxiously about it then yes, that is something that would make it a problem. As for interracial marriages I hope no one is ignorant enough to say that is a sin...

[Vincent Vega]

A mistake ceases to be a mistake when done with fully knowledge and consent, and when it is done habitually.

[yoda]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1286517765' post='2178495']
A mistake ceases to be a mistake when done with fully knowledge and consent, and when it is done habitually.
[/quote]

I wasnt talking about homosexuality then, I was speaking in general in terms of everyone making a mistake some point or another which could be considered a sin.

[CatherineM]

I call it a half-life because that is what it is. When you're young, hormones do most of your thinking for you, if you let them. That's not real love. Of all the gay couples that I dealt with 20 years ago, none were living truly full lives. When you experience a truly sacramental marriage, you understand completely what it means, and how false "gay marriage" really is.

[Socrates]

[quote name='yoda' timestamp='1286516757' post='2178489']
I didnt mean it in that sense that they just shun them, Im aware that we all make mistakes. I dont think you are able to judge that its only a "half-life", if it was stated that having a cat is a sin because it is not a dog and youve grown with it would you really get rid of it? or hope that people are accepting enough to understand you love something with all your heart because thats just the way things work. Gay marriages arent aiding to leading someone to a "sinful life", its simply giving them the freedom and chance of being happy and attempting to live a normal life as best they can with the circumstances theyve been given. BUT if someone is parading around trying to turn everyone gay and acts obnoxiously about it then yes, that is something that would make it a problem. As for interracial marriages I hope no one is ignorant enough to say that is a sin...
[/quote]
The teaching of the Church and Sacred Scripture consistently teach that homosexual activity is gravely disordered and sinful. Sorry, but if you disagree with that you need to stop calling yourself "Catholic."

As Catholic Christians, our ultimate concern should be for the souls and salvation of both ourselves and others.
Ultimately, living a sinful life does not lead to true and eternal happiness, and we should not do anything to actively enable, encourage or reward sin, as "gay marriage" would.

If someone's an alcoholic, you shouldn't take them to the bar, and buy them drinks. If someone has a problem with porn, you wouldn't go buy them a porno to watch.
Even though both these things might make the drunkard or the porn-addict "happy."

There is no good reason for the state to reward or give special legal recognition to immoral homosexual activity by granting recognition to homosexual "marriage."

The Church gives some reasons why here:
[url="http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20030731_homosexual-unions_en.html"]CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH CONSIDERATIONS REGARDING PROPOSALS TO GIVE LEGAL RECOGNITION TO UNIONS BETWEEN HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS[/url]

[yoda]

[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1286558249' post='2178572']
The teaching of the Church and Sacred Scripture consistently teach that homosexual activity is gravely disordered and sinful. Sorry, but if you disagree with that you need to stop calling yourself "Catholic."

As Catholic Christians, our ultimate concern should be for the souls and salvation of both ourselves and others.
Ultimately, living a sinful life does not lead to true and eternal happiness, and we should not do anything to actively enable, encourage or reward sin, as "gay marriage" would.

If someone's an alcoholic, you shouldn't take them to the bar, and buy them drinks. If someone has a problem with porn, you wouldn't go buy them a porno to watch.
Even though both these things might make the drunkard or the porn-addict "happy."

There is no good reason for the state to reward or give special legal recognition to immoral homosexual activity by granting recognition to homosexual "marriage."

The Church gives some reasons why here:
[url="http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20030731_homosexual-unions_en.html"]CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH CONSIDERATIONS REGARDING PROPOSALS TO GIVE LEGAL RECOGNITION TO UNIONS BETWEEN HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS[/url]
[/quote]

lol you have no right to tell me if im "catholic" or not. Im doing what else Jesus taught us, looking PAST that from a person and treating them as I wish to be treated. Being a drunk or porn addict is a lot different then being gay, I dont remember the last time being gay has hurt anyone as those would. You act as if its one of the worst things in the world when there are people actually out there raping someone or killing. Also, look at the recent suicides for being gay. Im sure if Jesus were here he would not want one to harm themselves OR feel as crappy as they do because IGNORANT people *cough cough* treat them like lepers. Some people are born that way and try not to be but they cant help it, its not right to punish themselves for it. The church states that men and women should remain chaste until marriage so they can conceive a child. How many people have followed that well? What about that sin? What if they get married and adopt saving a child's life from China or Africa... they are still seen as a horrible person just because they are gay? Its not right to judge like that. What would you do if your children were gay... never speak to them again? Its sad and its called empathy, you dont know how one feels about being gay and dealing with it. Last time I checked marriage wasnt a "reward".

[un.privileged]

Does the existing civil marriage has anything to do with Catholic's sacramental marriage?

[CatherineM]

Anyone may call themselves a Catholic. However, the word communion means something other than just standing in line at mass. Being "in communion" means properly forming your conscience, and even if you don't agree with the Vatican, you should in humility attempt to. If you don't agree with Church teachings, and don't want to, why on Earth would you even want to call yourself a Catholic?

[yoda]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1286590065' post='2178705']
Anyone may call themselves a Catholic. However, the word communion means something other than just standing in line at mass. Being "in communion" means properly forming your conscience, and even if you don't agree with the Vatican, you should in humility attempt to. If you don't agree with Church teachings, and don't want to, why on Earth would you even want to call yourself a Catholic?
[/quote]

Did I say I dont agree with the church? Or is this ONE thing that I dont agree with? I dont see myself going out and kissing girls or anything. Stop jumping to your own conclusions. It may be seen as a SIN but the point is if someone is gay THEY ARE STILL A PERSON AND DESERVE THE SAME RESPECT AS ANYONE ELSE.

[MIKolbe]

[quote name='yoda' timestamp='1286602456' post='2178727']
Did I say I dont agree with the church? Or is this ONE thing that I dont agree with? I dont see myself going out and kissing girls or anything. Stop jumping to your own conclusions. It may be seen as a SIN but the point is if someone is gay THEY ARE STILL A PERSON AND DESERVE THE SAME RESPECT AS ANYONE ELSE.
[/quote]
Allow me to forward an analogy.

Take out your catechism of the catholic church. All the pages you don't agree with, tear them out and throw them in the trash. Once you do that, the 'book' you have is no longer have the catechism of the catholic church. In much the same way, we as catholics cannot simply disregard a teaching because we do not agree with it....this is not to say we cannot struggle with understanding the teaching, but we cannot simply and flatly not agree and refuse to give assent to it.

granted, all analogies are flawed in one way or another...but I hope there is some resonance with the one above.

And I completely agree with your second sentence. regardless of the sin, everyone is a person and should have the basic dignity that should be afforded to any person.

[CatherineM]

[quote name='yoda' timestamp='1286602456' post='2178727']
Did I say I dont agree with the church? Or is this ONE thing that I dont agree with? I dont see myself going out and kissing girls or anything. Stop jumping to your own conclusions. It may be seen as a SIN but the point is if someone is gay THEY ARE STILL A PERSON AND DESERVE THE SAME RESPECT AS ANYONE ELSE.
[/quote]
Since you are new, I will assume you know nothing about me. In the 80's when people were afraid to be in the same room with someone with AIDS, I was the only attorney in Oklahoma City who would represent them. I did over 100 free wills to men who were dying way too young. I treated them all with respect. In many cases, I was the last human being who touched their bare skin until they were taken to the mortuary. Well over 90% of them were gay. When it got around in the gay community that I was willing to take on gay clients, I was basically overwhelmed with gay couples trying to take care of all of the paperwork necessary to legally secure their relationships. With each person, I was clear that I was a devout Catholic, that I believed their lifestyles weren't in keeping with what God had intended for them, but that I would respect their decisions and their wishes.

My mother has been living with someone she isn't married to for over well over 20 years. Granted she was with my father for 30 years before they finally married, so it must seem normal to her. I may not agree with her choices, but I certainly still love and respect her. I have 5 older brothers who together have gone through 12 wives. I didn't agree with many of those either, choosing to decline invitations to some of the weddings while attending the receptions to show my love and support of my brothers, even if I didn't agree with their choices.

Life is rarely as black and white as it might seem when we are young. I never once said that those with Same Sex Attraction aren't persons deserving respect and love. As a parent, my boys made lots of wrong turns I wish they hadn't, but that doesn't keep me from loving them. It doesn't keep me from wanting them to do better and be happier. That's what God wants from all of us. Those who choose bad paths are still welcome in our churches. Somewhere along the way, the media or the pro-homosexual groups, have convinced those who don't know any better, that the Catholic Church discriminates against gays because we recognize that lifestyle isn't life-giving. Any gay person who wants to attend church, and sit next to me in the pew is very welcome and would never be turned away. Whether they are eligible to receive communion is between themselves and our pastors.

[yoda]

[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif[/img]

[Socrates]

[quote name='yoda' timestamp='1286582427' post='2178659']
lol you have no right to tell me if im "catholic" or not. Im doing what else Jesus taught us, looking PAST that from a person and treating them as I wish to be treated. Being a drunk or porn addict is a lot different then being gay, I dont remember the last time being gay has hurt anyone as those would. You act as if its one of the worst things in the world when there are people actually out there raping someone or killing. Also, look at the recent suicides for being gay. Im sure if Jesus were here he would not want one to harm themselves OR feel as crappy as they do because IGNORANT people *cough cough* treat them like lepers. Some people are born that way and try not to be but they cant help it, its not right to punish themselves for it. The church states that men and women should remain chaste until marriage so they can conceive a child. How many people have followed that well? What about that sin? What if they get married and adopt saving a child's life from China or Africa... they are still seen as a horrible person just because they are gay? Its not right to judge like that. What would you do if your children were gay... never speak to them again? Its sad and its called empathy, you dont know how one feels about being gay and dealing with it. Last time I checked marriage wasnt a "reward".
[/quote]
Being Catholic means believing and following ALL of the teachings of the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church regarding faith and morals, not just those you happen to personally already agree with. It's not a "pick and choose" deal. And that includes politically incorrect teachings such as those concerning homosexuality.

Drunkenness and watching porn are sinful, same as willfully indulging in homosexual sodomy. One's drunkenness or pornography viewing may be confined to the privacy of one's home, and may not directly affect other people, yet it remains sinful, and should not be encouraged or enabled. Same with homosexual activity.

And where did I say that homosexual activity is the worst thing in the world? You can't justify one sin by bringing up worse sins. The wrongness of rape or murder does not somehow make sodomy right. For almost any sin, you can find worse sins to compare it to, but that doesn't justify any sin, or mean it's not that bad. The Church lists sodomy among the "sins that cry out to heaven for vengeance." Saint Paul twice says that sodomites shall not inherit the kingdom of heaven.

The Church does indeed teach that it's wrong to have any sex outside of marriage, and that includes homosexual sodomy. How many people follow the Church's moral teachings on this or any other matter is irrelevant. No sinful behavior should be encouraged or condoned by Catholics.
Christ tells us to keep all His commandments if we love Him, not just those that are popular or easy to keep.

Yes, Jesus loves sinners (and that includes all of us), but He wants us to turn from sin. As Jesus told the repentant adulteress, "go and sin no more."

Civil "marriage" does indeed confer legal and financial benefits, which should not be given to perverted sexual activity which is contrary to the true purpose of marriage. If you want more explanation, please read the CDF document I linked to earlier. Catholics are obligated not to support "gay marriage" or "civil unions."

[Caritas]

[quote name='yoda' timestamp='1286602456' post='2178727']
Did I say I dont agree with the church? Or is this ONE thing that I dont agree with? I dont see myself going out and kissing girls or anything. Stop jumping to your own conclusions. It may be seen as a SIN but the point is if someone is gay THEY ARE STILL A PERSON AND DESERVE THE SAME RESPECT AS ANYONE ELSE.
[/quote]

Well, the Church does both these things. She first acknowledges that those with same sex attractions are human beings with dignity, and it is from this notion that Her teachings on homosexual relations flow. Living a chaste life and following the teachings of the Church will lead to eternal bliss with God. We must treat those with same sex attraction with love and encourage them to live chaste lives. Sometimes, as Christians, we are called to charitably admonish the sinner, and this is for his/her own benefit. In the end, any immediate gratification from sin one receives on earth will quickly pass away, but the rewards of a moral life will last for eternity.

[Klaudi87]

Its kinda hard to take the poll given that the constitution was not founded on catholic beliefs thus alot of things can be concidered constitutional are totally non--catholic