What Do You Expect Of A 13 Year Old Boy

[Tridenteen]

JMJ
My brother didn't do so well on his confirmation test. It seems that he knew the answers, but he couldn't quote them from the Baltimore Catechism verbatim....word from word. He understands the concepts, as Fr Assistant asked to double check, but he doesn't know the exact wording from the BC. And now we are wondering how much desire little brother has to make his confirmation. He wants to, but doesn't seem to exactly on fire for it.
So, I ask you. How much desire did you have for Confirmation when you were 13, is it inrealistic to expect someone to be able to fully memorize from the BC
What happened to Adam and Eve that reflects on us?
..."On account of their sin Adam and Eve lost sanctifying grace, the right to Heaven, and their special gifts; they became subject to death, to suffering, and to a strong inclination to evil, and they were driven from the Garden of Paradise."
My thought is that if you understand it, that's good. But sometimes with memorizing things, you forget them after the test...right?

[Cherie]

[quote name='Tridenteen' timestamp='1281879918' post='2157728']
JMJ
My brother didn't do so well on his confirmation test. It seems that he knew the answers, but he couldn't quote them from the Baltimore Catechism verbatim....word from word. He understands the concepts, as Fr Assistant asked to double check, but he doesn't know the exact wording from the BC. And now we are wondering how much desire little brother has to make his confirmation. He wants to, but doesn't seem to exactly on fire for it.
So, I ask you. How much desire did you have for Confirmation when you were 13, is it inrealistic to expect someone to be able to fully memorize from the BC
What happened to Adam and Eve that reflects on us?
..."On account of their sin Adam and Eve lost sanctifying grace, the right to Heaven, and their special gifts; they became subject to death, to suffering, and to a strong inclination to evil, and they were driven from the Garden of Paradise."
My thought is that if you understand it, that's good. But sometimes with memorizing things, you forget them after the test...right?
[/quote]

I think it's more important for them to have the concepts down. The priest who does the testing can determine that. Some people memorize the answers but have no idea of the actual concepts behind them. Some people understand the concepts but have a hard time memorizing. St. Bernadette is a great example. She often failed her Catechism test, but had a great desire for it.

Honestly, I'd rather someone be able to explain in their own words (albeit correctly) the concept of oh, say, the Trinity than give me a textbook answer. Memorization comes in handy, and I think it's a great way for some people to learn. But if someone understands the answers but can't give the "exact" textbook answer, then I still think they should pass.

Just my two cents.

[Nihil Obstat]

I never did like memorizing. I found it kind of insulting to my intelligence- that the implication was I didn't really understand something until I said it the same way they did.

[Tridenteen]

JMJ
Well, only two answers. Thank Cherie, and thanks Joe. You both verified what I wa kind of thinking. I felt that having to memorize the Baltimore Catechism was beneath me. I understand it, have and can explain the concep4ts very well, but can't quote it word from word. Joesph Cupertino after all, couldn't even pass his priest exam, and he's a saint...right:smokey:

[Nihil Obstat]

I can however, see the value in memorizing something for the sake of having it readily at hand. Not sure a test is the best environment for that, because in that case you tend to forget your lines a week or two after the test is over.

[Resurrexi]

I can see where the priest is coming from in regard to the importance of memorization.

[Tridenteen]

JMJ
Imprtance of memorization. Well, fine. Benignus did fine on the prayers he had to memorize, but importance of memorization?

[let_go_let_God]

We never had to learn the exact wording from the BC for our Catechism. We had to be able to address the concepts in simple terms and then we were asked to explain with clarity. I was also Confirmed when I was 17, so by then the desire was burning in me. As for others in my class, they wanted to be Confirmed but it wasn't a burning desire.

God bless-
LGLG

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Tridenteen' timestamp='1281879918' post='2157728']
And now we are wondering how much desire little brother has to make his confirmation. He wants to, but doesn't seem to exactly on fire for it. [/quote]
How, exactly, do you measure someone's fire? He wants confirmation and, imho, that's enough. If he understands the concepts. None of us understands the concepts perfectly.



[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1281881065' post='2157733']
I never did like memorizing. I found it kind of insulting to my intelligence- that the implication was I didn't really understand something until I said it the same way they did.
[/quote]
I'm not a big fan of memorizing, either.

I didn't vote in the poll because the choices did not really reflect my experience.

[BG45]

Didn't vote due to non-applicable status.

I hate memorization though, because I'd rather think that I have concepts down; and when I memorize something, it tends to dump out of my memory naturally after I'm tested on it. To memorize verbatim, for me at least, is consign an idea to a mental graveyard not too long after it is used.

[TeresaBenedicta]

I didn't vote since I went through RCIA as an 18 yr old, so my experience is pretty different than the typical confirmation preparation.

Here's my two cents on the issue:

Memorization has its place. Should it be the sole factor in whether or not a person makes confirmation? No. But I think that it does have its place and its an important one. That being said, not everyone [i]can[/i] memorize things. And that's fine. So long as they understand the concepts and can explain them. It's a both/and, I think.

As for desire... There should be some personal desire for the sacrament. How much? I don't know. I guess I'd say "Enough to be open to the graces of the Sacrament." But how can you tell? Again, I don't know. Even being open enough to receive [i]some[/i] grace would seem like enough to me.

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' timestamp='1281889830' post='2157776']
How, exactly, do you measure someone's fire? He wants confirmation and, imho, that's enough. If he understands the concepts. None of us understands the concepts perfectly.




I'm not a big fan of memorizing, either.

I didn't vote in the poll because the choices did not really reflect my experience.
[/quote]

I agree on both counts.

We were required (at age 14) to read the Gospel of Mark and answer a series of questions on it. My studies actually took a slightly different track since I was homeschooled, but that part I had to do the same as the public and Catholic school students. We also had a brief private meeting with our pastor and he basically asked a couple simple questions and verified that we had the basic concepts down. I am not anti-memorization, but I have always been really bad at it. Had we been required to memorize and quote anything I probably would have tested poorly.

[Sojourner]

I think rote memorization is an extremely poor measure of comprehension. I can memorize a sentence in another language and have no clue what it means (in fact, I have done this when singing).

[Apotheoun]

The East has a different approach to the mystery of chrismation (confirmation). Babies are chrismated (confirmed) right after they are baptized.

[Archaeology cat]

Absolutely agreed, Terra. I think it much more important for the person to be able to express the concept in his own words to show whether he understands it, but that's just my opinion. I didn't vote in the poll because it really doesn't apply to me, with the exception of the fact that I did have a very great desire to be confirmed (I'm a convert).

[mommas_boy]

Rote memorization is indeed an extremely poor measure of comprehension. However, being able to paraphrase concepts in his own words, which your brother seems able to do by your statements -- "It seems that he knew the answers", and "He understands the concepts" -- being able to paraphrase actually demonstrates retention. To an educator, your brother is operating at a higher level by paraphrasing than by simply repeating what he's read, because he has to actually synthesize a sentence that makes sense, rather than repeat a sentence that was already constructed.

</teacher_mode>

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Archaeology cat' timestamp='1281893432' post='2157790']
. . . I didn't vote in the poll because it really doesn't apply to me, with the exception of the fact that I did have a very great desire to be confirmed (I'm a convert).
[/quote]
I nulled my vote too.

[Wikitiki]

Oh wow, memorization? I'm extremely glad I didn't have to do any of that, or I'm pretty positive I wouldn't have gotten a thing right. I suppose memorization being good or not has to do with a person's learning style. I personally usually need to copy the way someone or something else explains a concept, but if you give me one source and say I have to use only that one source, a mental block sort of pops up.

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='Tridenteen' timestamp='1281879918' post='2157728']
JMJ
My brother didn't do so well on his confirmation test. It seems that he knew the answers, but he couldn't quote them from the Baltimore Catechism verbatim....word from word. He understands the concepts, as Fr Assistant asked to double check, but he doesn't know the exact wording from the BC. And now we are wondering how much desire little brother has to make his confirmation. He wants to, but doesn't seem to exactly on fire for it.
So, I ask you. How much desire did you have for Confirmation when you were 13, is it inrealistic to expect someone to be able to fully memorize from the BC
What happened to Adam and Eve that reflects on us?
..."On account of their sin Adam and Eve lost sanctifying grace, the right to Heaven, and their special gifts; they became subject to death, to suffering, and to a strong inclination to evil, and they were driven from the Garden of Paradise."
My thought is that if you understand it, that's good. But sometimes with memorizing things, you forget them after the test...right?
[/quote]

I love a lot about the traditional way of applying the sacraments and I absolutely love the Baltimore Catechism. But I'm not a fan of requiring memorization. Not that I think there's anything wrong with it if you can do it (though I can't very well). But I don't think memorization is a good measure of how well one understands something. It's kind of like training an animal. You can teach a dog to do certain things, but does that dog understand why it is doing it or what it means? It doesn't know that peeing on the carpet is bad or chewing up the furniture is bad. It just knows the biological reaction of performing for a treat. I think simply making a child memorize something without them understanding what it is they or memorizing or why, then it can lead to faith issues later on when they are old enough to realize that they "know" the right answer, but don't know why it should be the right answer, as many fallen-away Catholics claim.

[mcts]

At 13, I had zero desire for confirmation, so I'm VERY glad that my parish does it at 16 instead.