What Do You Expect Of A 13 Year Old Boy

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='mcts' timestamp='1281899328' post='2157810']
At 13, I had zero desire for confirmation, so I'm VERY glad that my parish does it at 16 instead.
[/quote]
I think it is fine to hold off for people who are not ready. For teens who are ready, it is unfair to make them wait.

I think taking a test for confirmation is rediculous. We don't require anyone to pass a test for any other sacraments. No wonder so many people treat it like a "graduation."

[Apotheoun]

More than ever I think young people need the grace of the sacrament of confirmation.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Apotheoun' timestamp='1281899639' post='2157818']
More than ever I think young people need the grace of the sacrament of confirmation.
[/quote]
Ditto.

[Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam]

Does anyone fully understand the workings of God in grace through the Sacrament of Confirmation? If no, then why is there such a stress on the "full understanding" of the human agent. Yes, there should be an acceptance of the sacrament and an understanding of the gravity of the choice to receive it, but I think we place too much emphasis on "a full understanding." It should be a grasping not a memorizing and internal active decision and recognition of gravity of choice, but one can never truly and fully understand the workings of God. Eye has not seen, ear has not heard....

[Apotheoun]

I think that the Roman Church should consider lowering the age of confirmation so that it takes place before the reception of first communion.

I would give the sacrament of confirmation to a child even if he does not fully grasp its meaning, because as important as theoretical knowledge is it is not a sufficient reason to withhold the grace of the holy mystery. Besides, catechetical instruction can be continued after the reception of the sacrament.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Apotheoun' timestamp='1281900612' post='2157826']
I think that the Roman Church should consider lowering the age of confirmation so that it takes place before the reception of first communion.

I would give the sacrament of confirmation to a child even if he does not fully grasp its meaning, because as important as theoretical knowledge is it is not a sufficient reason to withhold the grace of the holy mystery. Besides, catechetical instruction can be continued after the reception of the sacrament.
[/quote]
I don't understand why First Communion and Confirmation are not given at the same event in the Latin Rite. They are for adults being received into the Church.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' timestamp='1281901128' post='2157828']
I don't understand why First Communion and Confirmation are not given at the same event in the Latin Rite. They are for adults being received into the Church.
[/quote]
I don't either. Delaying confirmation till late teens is a bit strange.

The traditional order of reception of the holy mysteries of initiation in both East and West is . . . Baptism, Confirmation (Chrismation), Eucharist.

[Slappo]

[quote name='Apotheoun' timestamp='1281893186' post='2157789']
The East has a different approach to the mystery of chrismation (confirmation). Babies are chrismated (confirmed) right after they are baptized.
[/quote]


[quote name='Apotheoun' timestamp='1281899639' post='2157818']
More than ever I think young people need the grace of the sacrament of confirmation.
[/quote]


[quote name='Apotheoun' timestamp='1281900612' post='2157826']
I think that the Roman Church should consider lowering the age of confirmation so that it takes place before the reception of first communion.

I would give the sacrament of confirmation to a child even if he does not fully grasp its meaning, because as important as theoretical knowledge is it is not a sufficient reason to withhold the grace of the holy mystery. Besides, catechetical instruction can be continued after the reception of the sacrament.
[/quote]


[quote name='homeschoolmom' timestamp='1281901128' post='2157828']
I don't understand why First Communion and Confirmation are not given at the same event in the Latin Rite. They are for adults being received into the Church.
[/quote]


[quote name='Apotheoun' timestamp='1281901509' post='2157831']
I don't either. Delaying confirmation till late teens is a bit strange.

The traditional order of reception of the holy mysteries of initiation in both East and West is . . . Baptism, Confirmation (Chrismation), Eucharist.
[/quote]


+ about a trillion...

The Western idea of needing to understand the sacraments of initiation before receiving them is very odd. I am Western and fully support the Western Church, but some of the things such as this are ludicrous.

I didn't even know there was such thing as a Baltimore Catechism by the time I was confirmed, and I was a freshmen in high school. I also didn't know what mortal sin was, the importance of confession, or that the Eucharist was the substantial presence of Christ on earth.

[Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam]

[quote name='Apotheoun' timestamp='1281900612' post='2157826']
I think that the Roman Church should consider lowering the age of confirmation so that it takes place before the reception of first communion.

I would give the sacrament of confirmation to a child even if he does not fully grasp its meaning, because as important as theoretical knowledge is it is not a sufficient reason to withhold the grace of the holy mystery. Besides, catechetical instruction can be continued after the reception of the sacrament.
[/quote]

I would agree with this. I like the way that many of the Eastern Churches preserve the link between Confirmation and Baptism by performing them at the same time when they Baptize infants. I would also consider moving first communion back not so that people could understand it better, since it again is a mystery, but so that people may have a greater respect for the source and summit of our faith. This would also restore the proper order of the Sacraments of Initiation.


[quote name='Slappo' timestamp='1281913011' post='2157860']
+ about a trillion...

The Western idea of needing to understand the sacraments of initiation before receiving them is very odd. I am Western and fully support the Western Church, but some of the things such as this are ludicrous.
[/quote]

I think the Church wants receiving the sacraments to grasp the gravity but that most people argue today "that the kids should KNOW what the sacrament is." I think it has to do with the difference between what the Church understands and how the laity the average parish priests say.

Edited August 16, 2010 by Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam

[loveletslive]

wow...i never had to take any kind of quiz/exam or prove to anyone i was ready.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam' timestamp='1281929476' post='2157996']
I would agree with this. I like the way that many of the Eastern Churches preserve the link between Confirmation and Baptism by performing them at the same time when they Baptize infants. I would also consider moving first communion back not so that people could understand it better, since it again is a mystery, but so that people may have a greater respect for the source and summit of our faith. This would also restore the proper order of the Sacraments of Initiation.
[/quote]
I am happy with the Eastern custom of Baptizing, Confirming, and giving Communion to babies. The kids are put into ECF classes as they get older, but they have the benefit of already possessing all the graces of the sacraments.

[MissScripture]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' timestamp='1281899549' post='2157816']
I think it is fine to hold off for people who are not ready. For teens who are ready, it is unfair to make them wait.

I think taking a test for confirmation is rediculous. We don't require anyone to pass a test for any other sacraments. No wonder so many people treat it like a "graduation."
[/quote]
That's what's funny about it...they want you to have this "understanding" of all this stuff, but I doubt most kids understand what the point of confirmation is. I know I didn't when I was confirmed. I mean, I got the basic idea, but I didn't realize that you really did not need to know anything to be able to be confirmed! I think, sadly, what happens is that they don't have any other sort of "reward" to keep kids coming to religious education, so they use confirmation as sort of the capstone, and the time to test if the kids have gotten anything from religious ed, and so it becomes a "graduation."

[quote name='Apotheoun' timestamp='1281901509' post='2157831']
I don't either. Delaying confirmation till late teens is a bit strange.

The traditional order of reception of the holy mysteries of initiation in both East and West is . . . Baptism, Confirmation (Chrismation), Eucharist.
[/quote]
Depending on the diocese, it's not always the late teens (I know of at least one diocese where it's 3rd grade, I think), but it's still not the right order. And with the world in the state it is in, today, I think a lot of people need the graces long before the teenage years!

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='Apotheoun' timestamp='1281900612' post='2157826']
I think that the Roman Church should consider lowering the age of confirmation so that it takes place before the reception of first communion.

I would give the sacrament of confirmation to a child even if he does not fully grasp its meaning, because as important as theoretical knowledge is it is not a sufficient reason to withhold the grace of the holy mystery. Besides, catechetical instruction can be continued after the reception of the sacrament.
[/quote]
I'm very happy with my archdiocese on this matter, as [url="http://www.liverpoolcatholic.org.uk/index.php?p=169"]our Archbishop is restoring the traditional order of the Sacraments[/url]. Right now the proposal is that they will be confirmed at the age of 7, on Pentecost, and receive First Holy Communion that same year on the Feast of Corpus Christi. The only sad thing is that it's doubtful we'll still live in this archdiocese when our children are of confirmation-age.

As a side note, I'd be absolutely fine with it if Baptism, Confirmation, and First Communion were done at once, as infants, as in the Eastern Church.

Edited August 16, 2010 by Archaeology cat

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='MissScripture' timestamp='1281934763' post='2158031'] I think, sadly, what happens is that they don't have any other sort of "reward" to keep kids coming to religious education, so they use confirmation as sort of the capstone, and the time to test if the kids have gotten anything from religious ed, and so it becomes a "graduation."
[/quote]
dingdingding... winner winner chicken dinner.

[missionseeker]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' timestamp='1281899549' post='2157816']
I think it is fine to hold off for people who are not ready. For teens who are ready, it is unfair to make them wait.

I think taking a test for confirmation is rediculous. We don't require anyone to pass a test for any other sacraments. No wonder so many people treat it like a "graduation."
[/quote]


I had to take one for Penance and 1st communion.

[Tridenteen]

JMJ
It was great to read through ya'all's posts. I avoided the assistant fr yesterday becasue if he said anything at all I was scared that a) I would tell him that posted the situation online...or b)explode and explain.

I stayed safe and talked to the visiting sisters.
And held a baby.

Either way, I do agree with the thought that confirmation seems like a graduation. In my community, the girls seemed to have more respect, but either way, I felt the whole atmosphere a bit relieved...ie "yes!!! I passed, so my mom won't get mad!!!" The test is very long, it covers the whole BC, and there is an optional redo. The only part I thought was good was the candidacy inteview with Fr Chaplain. That was interesting, and when I made my Confirmation, Fr Chaplain (the first one) was still there. He was really big on celebraing your Confirmation day like it 's your birthday. I know it says something about that in the Catechism, but I never thought to actually do it! That was about four years after I found out about celebrating your feastday. So, another question, one do our Eastern brothers do for saint's days...ie patron saint fgeast days? And do ya'all celebrate your Confirmation anniversary?

[BG45]

[quote name='missionseeker' timestamp='1281965885' post='2158108']
I had to take one for Penance and 1st communion.
[/quote]

I dunno if they did at my church or not. My main memories of the sacraments from the POV of an outsider hearing about them was, "Yeah dude, I totally lied to that priest in Confession. It was so cool that he believed me, like I'm gonna tell someone what I did wrong?"

[Tridenteen]

JMJ
I made my first Communion in an English Church. I remember kids saying "you weren't supposed to do that" when I was back to the pew. I was the only person who didn't recieve by hand, and then pose for a photographer before putting the Sacred Host into my mouth....come to think of it, I was the only kid that used the screen at the First Confession rally. But there was a test for both, I passed them, but the q and a wasn't from the BC. It was mainly just asking what was the Eucharist, and things like "Are your sins washed away after absolution?". I talked ab out Purgatory, except that particular book poo pooed purgatory. Funny thing though, the teacher was very religious, so she didn't mind.

[Lil Red]

we didn't use the Baltimore Catechism

[dominicansoul]

I think Infants should receive the Sacrament of Confirmation...

At the same time, I am a catechism teacher for 10th grade confirmation students in my parish...I don't teach so much that the students have to understand the Sacrament in order to receive it, more than I use the year to teach them the basic foundations of their Faith (because up to now, they have no idea what their Faith is all about...)

...just a sad realization that the Church has suffered greatly from

a) a breakdown in the family unit (no more mommies and daddies to be the primary teachers of their children)
AND
b) poor catechesis.

Edited August 16, 2010 by dominicansoul