Charismatic Catholics

[Inquisitor Generalis]

[quote name='Era Might' date='Feb 16 2006, 01:41 PM']Pope Paul VI and Pope John Paul II were not included in "The Inferno".
[/quote]

But they easily could have (and SHOULD have) been included. If Dante only knew...

[Inquisitor Generalis]

[quote name='Paphnutius' date='Feb 16 2006, 01:41 PM']1. You are not Dante, nor an epic poet.

2. Dante was writing a piece of fiction, not arguing in a debate table making a point about a papacy. You on the other hand are directly comparing in no jovial terms two supreme pontiffs with a schismatic.

There is a difference.
[right][snapback]889365[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

1. Saying "you are not Dante" really isn't an argument. If Dante did it -- and was praised for it, no less -- I can do it, too.

2. You're the ones who brought up The Archbishop and chose to compare him to Paul VI and JPII, not me. Have you even been following this thread?

[Era Might]

[quote name='Inquisitor Generalis' date='Feb 16 2006, 03:52 PM']But they easily could have (and SHOULD have) been included.  If Dante only knew...
[right][snapback]889379[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

But they weren't.

Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, on the other hand, not only COULD have been an excommunicated schismatic, or SHOULD have been an excommunicated schismatic.

He WAS an excommunicated schismatic.

[Paphnutius]

[quote name='Inquisitor Generalis' date='Feb 16 2006, 01:55 PM']2. You're the ones who brought up The Archbishop and chose to compare him to Paul VI and JPII, not me.  Have you even been following this thread?
[right][snapback]889387[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]If I do recall, I said that [i]all sides [/i]would benefit from a stand down. Have you been reading my posts? I find this comparing of one soul to another something left only to God. Shall I bring Scripture into this? Everytime I do you seem to disappear for a while.

[cmotherofpirl]

Oy vay! Enough already.
IG stop with insulting the Holy Father, current or past, or you will be edited. This is an [i]orthodox[/i] Catholic board.

Our guidelines are in the top right of the page. Read them.

[Inquisitor Generalis]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Feb 16 2006, 02:51 PM']Oy vay! Enough already. 
IG stop with insulting the Holy Father, current or past, or you will be edited. This is an [i]orthodox[/i] Catholic board.

Our guidelines are in the top right of the page. Read them.
[right][snapback]889499[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

Ok, I'll stop. But what does orthodoxy have to do w/this? Dante was orthodox, and he put several popes and bishops in his [i]Inferno[/i]. Later popes, as previously mentioned, even wrote encyclicals about his work. I will obey the rules of the board; however, I did nothing wrong or "unorthodox."

[Azriel]

Just follow the guidelines of the board. No one was saying you aren't Orthodox. Just that we are an Orthodox site that does not allow the type of criticism you are offering.

[Brother Adam]

[quote]Just follow the guidelines of the board. No one was saying you aren't Orthodox. Just that we are an Orthodox site that does not allow the type of criticism you are offering.[/quote]

I'm saying he isn't orthodox - by comments like this:

[quote name='Inquisitor Generalis' date='Feb 16 2006, 02:00 PM']The saintly Abp. Marcel Lefebvre, of blessed memory, had nothing to do w/Paul VI's "smoke of Satan" comment and you know it.
[right][snapback]889317[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

[Inquisitor Generalis]

What does that have to do w/orthodoxy? There are a lot of ppl who did not follow Abp. Lefebvre, but still have a high degree of respect for that man. Many Indulters, for example, will admit that there likely would not have been an Indult if it wasn't for him.

[jezic]

since when did the Church become about what "we" think for ourselves?

There are certain things that aren't my favorite, but i don't call the entire thing bad just because i don't like about it. It is part of being the body of Christ. There are many different parts, but one body.

Is it so hard to see that?

If this draws people closer to Jesus, who are we to turn them away?

[Mrs. Bro. Adam]

[quote name='Inquisitor Generalis' date='Feb 15 2006, 10:11 PM']1. Failing to crack down on the charismatic movement is one of many things JPII will have to answer for.  May God forgive him.

2. I've never tried to "regulate" anything.  I'm just trying to get you ppl to actually think like Catholics and not Pentecostals.
[right][snapback]888934[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]


1. This is not for you to say, or even assume. He supported the movement, not the abuses which took place within the movement. Big difference. Nothing condemnable.

2. Perhaps you should take some of your own advice....

[jezic]

Catholics are Pentacostal in the truest sense of the word. We should be at least. If you aren't, there is a problem.

[Azriel]

Amen to that!

[Azriel]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Feb 16 2006, 06:15 PM']I'm saying he isn't orthodox - by comments like this:

[right][snapback]889712[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]


I stand corrected.

However, the point is everyone needs to remember phorum guidelines.

[YMNolan]

just to get back to what this thread began as...

if one has the gift of tongues, what should they do with it?

try to figure out which language they are speaking?

[jswranch]

[quote name='God Conquers' date='Feb 15 2006, 09:57 PM']Montanism has nothing to do with the charismatic movement other than the fact that both claim to exercise of the holy spirit. One group is heretical and led by a man claiming he was perferist's salvific act., the other is clearly of a fundamentally different nature.
[right][snapback]888928[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]


True, Montanism has nothing to do with the current charismatic movement. True, speaking in tongues does exist as we know from scripture.

What I was trying to bring attention to was the church's view of it when I quoted:


[quote name='jswranch' date='Feb 15 2006, 05:29 PM'][color=green]... Such exterior gifts need to be
tempered by humility and obedience to the Church, since Satan can more easily counterfeit them... [right][snapback]888700[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

(I suppose Satan can also attempt to counterfeit our interpretation of scripture)

for Nolan's "If one has the gift of tongues, what should they do with it?" Find a charismatic group in which to use it. Perhaps the use of tongues is also good in private prayer.

[cmotherofpirl]

There are many previous threads on this topic, which you can find using our search feature.

[Cam42]

[quote name='Inquisitor Generalis' date='Feb 16 2006, 10:46 PM']What does that have to do w/orthodoxy?  There are a lot of ppl who did not follow Abp. Lefebvre, but still have a high degree of respect for that man.  Many Indulters, for example, will admit that there likely would not have been an Indult if it wasn't for him.
[right][snapback]889907[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

So, are you saying a "good" came from an "evil?" You are incorrect and so are those that think that there wouldn't be an indult if not for Archbishop Lefevbre.

In 1984, FOUR FULL YEARS, before the illicit consecrations by the late Archbishop Lefevbre. I would point you to the document [url="http://www.catholicliturgy.com/index.cfm/FuseAction/DocumentContents/Index/2/SubIndex/11/DocumentIndex/395"]Quattuor Abhinc Annos[/url]. It was put forth from the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments.

Your logic is faulty. And you are flat out wrong.

If you'd like to discuss the nuance of Dante's Divine Comedy, I'd be happy to indulge you. I studied it rather heavily in my undergrad days, while pursuing my Catholic Studies degree. I rather enjoyed it and would love to revisit this great work. Would you like to read through it in English or in the original Italian? Either works for me.

[brendan1104]

Cam, you know just as well as I do, that many bishops did not "allow" the indult until Archbishop Lefebvre consecrated the bishops, and they do in the majority of places only because there's an SSPX/indpt./sede chapel in the area...

[quote name='Cam42' post='891101' date='Feb 18 2006, 10:21 AM']
So, are you saying a "good" came from an "evil?" You are incorrect and so are those that think that there wouldn't be an indult if not for Archbishop Lefevbre.

In 1984, FOUR FULL YEARS, before the illicit consecrations by the late Archbishop Lefevbre. I would point you to the document [url="http://www.catholicliturgy.com/index.cfm/FuseAction/DocumentContents/Index/2/SubIndex/11/DocumentIndex/395"]Quattuor Abhinc Annos[/url]. It was put forth from the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments.

Your logic is faulty. And you are flat out wrong.

If you'd like to discuss the nuance of Dante's Divine Comedy, I'd be happy to indulge you. I studied it rather heavily in my undergrad days, while pursuing my Catholic Studies degree. I rather enjoyed it and would love to revisit this great work. Would you like to read through it in English or in the original Italian? Either works for me.
[/quote]

[Kristen]

I think Fr. Mike Scanlon (FUS) claims that Pope John Paul II spoke in tongues when they said mass together (in Fr. Mike's autobiography).