Democrats, Obama, Quran Burning, And The Brooklyn Museum

[Chi Zhuzi]

Hope I can make this post very short, sweet, and to the point.

The military philosopher - which the Western world follows like a bible - is Clausewitz. If I remember correctly he was a Prussian military officer. At any rate, according to Clausewitz, tactics are subordinate to strategy, and strategy seeks to either overthrow the status quo or force the status quo to bend towards your demands.

Being cognizant of that; Obama, Hillary Clinton, and other people of the liberal persuasion (I regard myself as ore liberal or "radical" than conservative by the way) have essentially justified (proved merit of) the [i]tactic [/i]of intimidation coming from the Islamic world, if I can take the liberty to generalize "that world" in monolithic terms. Therefore, with intimidation or suicide bombings as a tactic, the strategy to curtail "freedom of speech," or even the Democrats hallowed principle of "separation of church and state," proves very effective.

I remember when Hillary Clinton spoke in support of the Brooklyn Museum blaspheming the most venerated iconic saint, and human person (Jesus was a human being but divine person, hence two natures) invoking the sacredness of "freedom of speech" to roaring New York crowds in the hundreds if not thousands. To purposefully offend the Catholic religion and devote Catholics (not luke warm) brings out patriotic - or so-called patriots but I would argue they betray their Catholic countrymen and women - in the millions in one form or another.

The United States Constitution supposedly guards against placing one religion above another. Essentially this is what Democrats do. That party's politicians use their influence to protect Islam from being disrespected, while using their influence to encourage the continued disrespect of the Virgin Mary, Christ on crucifix, and the Catholic faith and Catholic clergy and people.

I suggest a non-violent method of countering this: Catholic Democrats threatening to leave the Democratic party, if not doing so altogether. Writing our Congressional representatives. And even publicly threatening to cease providing military service (by signing up with recruiters) to the United States. I'm a former Marine, like many other Marines, my dog tags said: Roman Catholic.

I voted for Obama and I have only (regrettably) voted for one Republican in my life. As of now, I will no longer support any Democrat with my vote, that includes Obama. The Republicans can get the support of my vote from now on - or no one at all.

[Chi Zhuzi]

Addendum to my original post.


Hillary Clinton regarding the Brooklyn Museum: [url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/459846.stm"]My link[/url]

[Chi Zhuzi]

[quote name='Chi Zhuzi' timestamp='1284226869' post='2171894']
Addendum to my original post.


Hillary Clinton regarding the Brooklyn Museum: [url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/459846.stm"]My link[/url]
[/quote]

Sorry, I couldn't add all the links at once, and I hoped to edit the post above, but I've seen no edit option, so, I have to quote myself.

This is the so-called "Piss Christ," with the info about it provided by Wikipedia. It was U.S. Government funded, and a award winning, art piece that is blasphemous against Christ, and directed at Catholics (due to the crucifix). This reality is something American and world Catholics ought know and acknowledge exists: with the help of our silence and complicity in giving the Democrats our votes as they scourge and mock Christ, confident his followers will cower away, once again from the roar of the mobs: [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piss_Christ"]My link[/url]

[MithLuin]

It is certainly true that by responding to terrorist tactics, we legitimize them as an effective way to gain one's objectives (the strategy you mentioned). The US should really think about that.... It used to be we never negotiated with terrorists or kidnappers.

I've never had any desire to burn books in general, let alone the Koran in particular. I think it was a dumb idea. But I do see larger implications to this argument. It's okay to disrespect/humiliate/enrage someone if they won't respond violently? So...if you want to be taken seriously, you [i]should[/i] make yourself appear dangerous by fighting back? That's not a mindset any of us should want to encourage!

The thing is, the global flow of information being what it is, I wouldn't surprised if some radical somewhere says they [i]did[/i] do it anyway, even though they didn't. So...we might wind up with reprisals anyway, just because it was a talking point.

[SaintOfVirtue]

[quote name='Chi Zhuzi' timestamp='1284226669' post='2171892']
Hope I can make this post very short, sweet, and to the point.

The military philosopher - which the Western world follows like a bible - is Clausewitz. If I remember correctly he was a Prussian military officer. At any rate, according to Clausewitz, tactics are subordinate to strategy, and strategy seeks to either overthrow the status quo or force the status quo to bend towards your demands.

Being cognizant of that; Obama, Hillary Clinton, and other people of the liberal persuasion (I regard myself as ore liberal or "radical" than conservative by the way) have essentially justified (proved merit of) the [i]tactic [/i]of intimidation coming from the Islamic world, if I can take the liberty to generalize "that world" in monolithic terms. Therefore, with intimidation or suicide bombings as a tactic, the strategy to curtail "freedom of speech," or even the Democrats hallowed principle of "separation of church and state," proves very effective.

I remember when Hillary Clinton spoke in support of the Brooklyn Museum blaspheming the most venerated iconic saint, and human person (Jesus was a human being but divine person, hence two natures) invoking the sacredness of "freedom of speech" to roaring New York crowds in the hundreds if not thousands. To purposefully offend the Catholic religion and devote Catholics (not luke warm) brings out patriotic - or so-called patriots but I would argue they betray their Catholic countrymen and women - in the millions in one form or another.

The United States Constitution supposedly guards against placing one religion above another. Essentially this is what Democrats do. That party's politicians use their influence to protect Islam from being disrespected, while using their influence to encourage the continued disrespect of the Virgin Mary, Christ on crucifix, and the Catholic faith and Catholic clergy and people.

I suggest a non-violent method of countering this: Catholic Democrats threatening to leave the Democratic party, if not doing so altogether. Writing our Congressional representatives. And even publicly threatening to cease providing military service (by signing up with recruiters) to the United States. I'm a former Marine, like many other Marines, my dog tags said: Roman Catholic.

I voted for Obama and I have only (regrettably) voted for one Republican in my life. As of now, I will no longer support any Democrat with my vote, that includes Obama. The Republicans can get the support of my vote from now on - or no one at all.
[/quote]

You are officially the smartest liberal I know.

[spoiler]However much of an oxymoron that may be [/spoiler]

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='SaintOfVirtue' timestamp='1284231731' post='2171933']
You are officially the smartest liberal I know.

[spoiler]However much of an oxymoron that may be [/spoiler]
[/quote]

the spoiler wasnt really necessary

[Winchester]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1284233148' post='2171942']
the spoiler wasnt really necessary
[/quote]
It was for liberals.

[dairygirl4u2c]

you might get lots of props from republicans and catholics sure.
and there's something respectable abotu sticking up for your religion and such.
but it's not like there's a concerted effort by democrats to disrespect catholics, while defending islam. and, it's even mroe the case that it's not the democratic party line to do so, and probably not even done by most democrats. all you're doing is noticing a social convention, something that's acceptable and not 'right'.
do you see the islamic republicans pushing to switch parties cause tehre's a lot of republicans who want to burn the quaran, or dont want them to build the mosque? no that would be a silly reason to leave. it's akin to catholics leaving the catholic church because peodophile priests exist. it doesjn't have anything to do with teh teachings themself etc, doesnt say about thing about whether thye are 'right', etc.
you should find another way to get attanetion to this subject than switching parties.
so in essense... to be blunt. you're just whinning and acting irrationally.

[Winchester]

Abortion is the main reason I don't vote democrat. A very close second is the democrat belief that citizens should not be armed. Then there's the strong belief in the nanny state.

I could give a poo about Hillary's offensiveness. Obama was clearly an idiot from the get go, not to mention a tyrant who believes inner city black people don't know how to handle firearms.

[havok579257]

in these current times with the current politicians we have, voting democrate/liberal and being catholic can not go together. to much of what democrates/liberals stand for is against the catholic church. your one or the other, not both. they contradict each other to much.

[ThePenciledOne]

[quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1284248837' post='2172056']
in these current times with the current politicians we have, voting democrate/liberal and being catholic can not go together. to much of what democrates/liberals stand for is against the catholic church. your one or the other, not both. they contradict each other to much.
[/quote]

So, taking good things from both sides and leaving the bad is not allowed?

[CatherineM]

I'm a Democrat. I occasionally get to vote for a democrat who is pro-life.

[havok579257]

[quote name='ThePenciledOne' timestamp='1284250853' post='2172074']
So, taking good things from both sides and leaving the bad is not allowed?
[/quote]


if you take things from both sides your not a democrate/liberal. to be a democrate/liberal you take things from only one side. its the same as conservative/republican, to be one you take things from just one side.

[ThePenciledOne]

[quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1284251648' post='2172080']
if you take things from both sides your not a democrate/liberal. to be a democrate/liberal you take things from only one side. its the same as conservative/republican, to be one you take things from just one side.
[/quote]

You missed my question.

I'll restate it a little bit better.

Can we not just take good things from both? Is there anything wrong with that?

[Seven77]

[quote name='ThePenciledOne' timestamp='1284254061' post='2172092']
You missed my question.

I'll restate it a little bit better.

[u]Can we not just take good things from both?[/u] Is there anything wrong with that?
[/quote]

"Yes we can"

[Chi Zhuzi]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' timestamp='1284239269' post='2171993']
you might get lots of props from republicans and catholics sure.
and there's something respectable abotu sticking up for your religion and such.
but it's not like there's a concerted effort by democrats to disrespect catholics, while defending islam. and, it's even mroe the case that it's not the democratic party line to do so, and probably not even done by most democrats. all you're doing is noticing a social convention, something that's acceptable and not 'right'.
do you see the islamic republicans pushing to switch parties cause tehre's a lot of republicans who want to burn the quaran, or dont want them to build the mosque? no that would be a silly reason to leave. it's akin to catholics leaving the catholic church because peodophile priests exist. it doesjn't have anything to do with teh teachings themself etc, doesnt say about thing about whether thye are 'right', etc.
you should find another way to get attanetion to this subject than switching parties.
so in essense... [b]to be blunt. you're just whinning and acting irrationally.[/b]
[/quote]

Whining is a good thing, or at least it can be, one should realize that by looking at contemporary feminism and much of the racial politics that goes on in the United States. Mind you, I'm not free of racial politics myself, I was going to vote for Obama anyways just because he was "black" (mulatto really). That he's one of the greatest orators in U.S. political history just even helped that all the more.

Muslims are a minority in the Republican party. I doubt they even have a significant representation. Catholics gave much to the Democratic party as well as the United States of America. On my German-American side, I have blood relations that fought in U.S. wars dating to the Civil War (on the side of the Union). And Protestant work ethic? They were busy sitting behind desks with their college diplomas on the wall. It was the Catholic Poles, Germans, Irish, and Italians etc... slaving away in those early 20th century factories for peanuts. Then Catholic-Americans built schools, universities, and hospitals in this nation.

But even more than, that the issue of Jesus and the Virgin Mary become fundamental. We are not to deny Jesus - or his mother - while becoming complicit in the reverence of Mohammad.

[havok579257]

[quote name='ThePenciledOne' timestamp='1284254061' post='2172092']
You missed my question.

I'll restate it a little bit better.

Can we not just take good things from both? Is there anything wrong with that?
[/quote]


taking things from both parties is a good thing. picking one over the other is wrong, since niether party is completly right. its just morally wrong to pick the moral aspects of the democratic party, since they as a whole stand for abortion, gay marriage, contraception and so on. although taking some of there government running ideas is not a bad idea at all. i support some of the ideas of the democratic party and some of the republican party. republican more when it comes to moral issues and democratic on somes issues of government.

[Chi Zhuzi]

[quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1284248837' post='2172056']
in these current times with the current politicians we have, voting democrate/liberal and being catholic can not go together. to much of what democrates/liberals stand for is against the catholic church. your one or the other, not both. they contradict each other to much.
[/quote]

It's not easy to reconcile the Republican party to Catholic Social Justice Teaching either.

But it's my feeling that similar to the Republican party becoming more infiltrated by white supremacist sympathizers after the 60's when black folks began leaving the Rep's for the Dem's, the Democratic party has at some point become infiltrated by to many interest groups in direct opposition to the Catholic Church, namely but not limited to, militant feminists and homosexual advocates.

If the Muslims were as large in number in the U.S. as Catholics, the Democrats would be demonizing them too, because of the consequence of the Muslim lobbying power.

The Catholic Church has strong - but weakened - lobbying power. It's a bit of a myth that as single individuals in the U.S. we have much political power. Really, aside from the rich and celebrities, the average person participates in American politics through interest groups. These same interest groups tell us what is proper to think, and who the "enemy" is.

So, in a certain sense, the war of propaganda (and seizing church property through lawsuits) against the Catholic Church, Jesus, and Mary, are diabolical.

[havok579257]

[quote name='Chi Zhuzi' timestamp='1284256131' post='2172112']
It's not easy to reconcile the Republican party to Catholic Social Justice Teaching either.

But it's my feeling that similar to the Republican party becoming more infiltrated by white supremacist sympathizers after the 60's when black folks began leaving the Rep's for the Dem's, the Democratic party has at some point become infiltrated by to many interest groups in direct opposition to the Catholic Church, namely but not limited to, militant feminists and homosexual advocates.

If the Muslims were as large in number in the U.S. as Catholics, the Democrats would be demonizing them too, because of the consequence of the Muslim lobbying power.

The Catholic Church has strong - but weakened - lobbying power. It's a bit of a myth that as single individuals in the U.S. we have much political power. Really, aside from the rich and celebrities, the average person participates in American politics through interest groups. These same interest groups tell us what is proper to think, and who the "enemy" is.

So, in a certain sense, the war of propaganda (and seizing church property through lawsuits) against the Catholic Church, Jesus, and Mary, are diabolical.
[/quote]


i am sorry, but i just can;t stand it when someone says its a myth that single individuals have political power. this is flat out wrong. in the past this may have been correct but now with the tea party movement, this is so not true. the tea party is quickly becoming a party unto itself, a party without lobbiests. you want to know why that is. its cause the individual american said they are sick and tired of the current system of lobbiests having more say and they are changing it.

when people complain about the individual not having any voting power, all they are doing is giving the lobbiests what they want, true power.

[Winchester]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1284251550' post='2172079']
I'm a Democrat. I occasionally get to vote for a democrat who is pro-life.
[/quote]
Not a big fan of the individual moral agency of man, I take it.