Most Surprising Thing

[ksterling]

One little exercise my SD has me do each week when we meet is to think of a positive and negative aspect of religious life which we discuss. This has been very helpful to me in my discernment process because it drills through some of the romantic notions I have about the life and forces me to confront what it will be like day-to-day. This makes me pray all the harder for the grace to persevere in the faces of difficulties while at the same time recognizing the great joy and beauty of this life. In thinking about the positive and negative, I have also started to wonder what I will find the most surprising about religious life as well. Could any of you with prior experience expound on what you thought was the most surprising thing? Any discerners on what they think might be the most surprising thing?

Kat

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='ksterling' timestamp='1285335393' post='2175666']
One little exercise my SD has me do each week when we meet is to think of a positive and negative aspect of religious life which we discuss. This has been very helpful to me in my discernment process because it drills through some of the romantic notions I have about the life and forces me to confront what it will be like day-to-day. This makes me pray all the harder for the grace to persevere in the faces of difficulties while at the same time recognizing the great joy and beauty of this life. In thinking about the positive and negative, I have also started to wonder what I will find the most surprising about religious life as well. Could any of you with prior experience expound on what you thought was the most surprising thing? Any discerners on what they think might be the most surprising thing?

Kat
[/quote]


Not many surprises left for me. What conclusion did you come to about what might surprise you?

[krissylou]

I will be off to a monastery next weekend to see a friend of mine make her Perpetual Profession.



Profession Mass is at 1 pm. My parents' house is about 4 hours away, so I had enough time to make the drive pretty comfortably.

She was also telling me "oh I'll have you sit with such-and-so at dinner." I just sort of assumed this was in the evening as that's what "dinner" means in my mind.

I had previouisly learned that the Rule of Benedict has the big meal mid-day, but I didn't quite put those pieces together.

So when I got the schedule for the weekend and saw that I'm supposed to be at this "dinner" with assigned seating at 11 am ...



well, that was a surprise.

Okay, so I guess I'll get in the car earlier in the morning!



(this probably isn't what you're looking for)

[In The Arms of The Lord]

When I first started my discernment to the religious life, I thought of everything as very romantic and if anyone was to tell me otherwise I probably wouldn't have listened at that time. Now some years have gone by and the more I came to know the love of Jesus; the more I came to know about the sacrifice of self; what true love really is. I don't know if I could use the word surprise, but rather the realization of the detachment and sacrifice involved. It has been the cause of many experiences and also knowledge. Deeper though than anything is able to go, is this love that continues to capture my heart. I have said to myself that if my love and longing for Jesus is stronger than all else; how could I refuse to give myself? It seems to have been this way; that through it all there has been a willingness and trust, which is so needed to persevere. I believe all the difficulties that are involved don't take away any of the beauty or what we see as being romantic, but it makes it even more so because while persevering through it all we become closer to Him.

Edited September 24, 2010 by In The Arms of The Lord

[Sarah147]

How hard and uncomfortable it can be to be in a very formal order.

How in social time, how hard it really is. I mean, it's scheduled, so you have to make yourself think up things to say; whereas at home, things will just come to me, or in doing something together, jokes and thoughts come. It isn't so natural, fun and casual in the convent. At least, at most of the orders I tried out. It's also harder because you don't quite have the closeness, humor, hugs and affection, like with close loved ones. Also, it feels unnatural to me being in stiff chairs, all ordered, and trying to socialize like that. I guess I'm a bit laid back in many ways.

How hard routine can get when everything is scheduled and structed down to a T through the entire day. I'm used to flexability, spontaneity, and change.

How hard it can be to hear certain peoples voices so much, and to hear the songs and chants sung so much every single day.

How EXTRA SENSITIVE you get to things that happen with others, or little annoyances in prayer time (ex. noisy breathing/moaning, noisy Rosary, etc.)

How hard it can be sometimes to be in a slowed-down, hidden life. I feel at times like I need to be really working toward something, being active, helping people. Though it could partly be due to my ADHD.

At times, how hard it can be with pride, to be submissive and obedient to a superior. Not so much in doing it, but in getting thoughts that maybe they aren't making the best decision, questioning if it goes against my conscience, questioning if I should say something, questioning if I could do things better. Not all of this has happened, but there have been things in my life, that I could see that could happen if it occured in the convent.

Being more reserved than you normally are and being around others that act that way. Being less friendly, funny, affectionate, etc. This has been my experience, and I think it is incorrect. Many think they have to act Holy to be a religious, but rather it's about being who you truly are, being REAL. St. Francis De Sales says "Be who you are and be that well."

Being away from loved ones. BIGGY.

Meanness and coldness from others in community.




These are just some things I could think of. I have been praying for purification of my attitudes and difficulties.

[laetitia crucis]

I've been trying to examine my own thoughts on this, and really.. I was having a hard time! Granted, when I entered before, I really had no idea what to expect, so there were several surprises. Most of these "surprises" were quite pleasant (like having desserts EVERY DAY, including ICE CREAM on Sundays and feast days -- I've never eaten so many sweets and desserts in all my life! Haha!); however, the biggest not-so-pleasant "surprise" would probably be what JoyfulLife said here:

[quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1285344812' post='2175689']
[color="#595959"][font="arial, verdana, sans-serif"][size="4"]Being more reserved than you normally are and being around others that act that way. Being less friendly, funny, affectionate, etc. This has been my experience, and I think it is incorrect. Many think they have to act Holy to be a religious, but rather it's about being who you truly are, being REAL. St. Francis De Sales says "Be who you are and be that well."
[/size][/font][/color][/quote]

I was always told, "[i]We are not like other orders and communities -- we are not 'cookie-cutter nuns',[/i]" yet, in reality, we were actually our own distinct "cookie cutter" [i][b]as a community/order[/b][/i]. As horrible as it might sound, I felt that more often than not, I had to be "less friendly, funny, affectionate, etc" as well... I had to have those parts "cut off" by the "cookie cutter". I became less true to myself because I tried so hard to fit that mold/casting. In the end, it became pretty obvious to my superiors that I just didn't fit the mold, even though I painstakingly tried to make myself fit.... so much so that even I couldn't see what was so obvious to them.

I guess I found that the most difficult "surprise" because... it came as a complete shock to me. I thought I was accepted for who I was (because that is exactly what I was told throughout postulancy and novitiate), not who they wanted me to be. That was hard.

Hmm.. I suppose that has also led me to wonder how things like this are categorized and dealt with in discernment. Is this just an example of mere personality conflicts? Cultural conflicts? Of an unmatched "spirituality" or "charism"? Or just a plain, old, "You're simply not called to [i]this specific community[/i] because you're not like us / you don't fit in."?

Any thoughts?




P.S. -- On a somewhat humorous note -- something else that came as somewhat "surprising" to have annoyed me so much was that during times of silent prayer in chapel, the distinct sound of one specific Sister's foot or leg constantly and quickly moving/shaking from side to side... it's the [b]only [/b]thing I could hear during those times. For a FULL HOUR of silent prayer and Adoration. It drove me insane. Though, of course, I tried my best to "offer it up", but man... I wanted to scream. And just for the record, I know for a fact that this Sister did not suffer from Parkinson's or any other illness that might cause this type of movement.

[Sarah147]

Woaaaaa. Didn't recognize you until I quoted you, Laetitia. You changed your picture!

Oh, that reminds me. I have a PM that I've been meaning to read... I'll go do that.


I wonder, too, about what you said about personality and all. I'd like to hear more about that... I suspect a lot of it is just poor theology of the Sisters, Novice Master, Superior, etc. They think acting p e r f e c t, inhuman, is Holiness. They forget Jesus is fully man, too.

L o v e , REALNESS, and humility is Holiness.


[quote name='laetitia crucis' timestamp='1285348344' post='2175701']
P.S. -- On a somewhat humorous note -- something else that came as somewhat "surprising" to have annoyed me so much was that during times of silent prayer in chapel, the distinct sound of one specific Sister's foot or leg constantly and quickly moving/shaking from side to side... it's the [b]only [/b]thing I could hear during those times. For a FULL HOUR of silent prayer and Adoration. It drove me insane. Though, of course, I tried my best to "offer it up", but man... I wanted to scream. And just for the record, I know for a fact that this Sister did not suffer from Parkinson's or any other illness that might cause this type of movement.
[/quote]


Grrrr... I know what you mean. There was this Sister that would make this breathy/moan thing, every few seconds, for the whole hour or two of silent meditation/prayer. She was right behind me and it drove me up the darn wall! It made me so nervous and with my ADHD, it was distracting me from prayer. I still don't know why on earth she did that?!

Edited September 24, 2010 by JoyfulLife

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='laetitia crucis' timestamp='1285348344' post='2175701']

P.S. -- On a somewhat humorous note -- something else that came as somewhat "surprising" to have annoyed me so much was that during times of silent prayer in chapel, the distinct sound of one specific Sister's foot or leg constantly and quickly moving/shaking from side to side... it's the [b]only [/b]thing I could hear during those times. For a FULL HOUR of silent prayer and Adoration. It drove me insane. Though, of course, I tried my best to "offer it up", but man... I wanted to scream. And just for the record, I know for a fact that this Sister did not suffer from Parkinson's or any other illness that might cause this type of movement.
[/quote]

I'll have to be careful about that!! I bounce my legs a lot-- in class, during meetings, and sometimes if I'm really wound up during prayer.

[In The Arms of The Lord]

The personality topic is interesting. Every member of the community will have a different personality, but at the same time they share the same goal and reasons for entering. If one follows the rules of the Order and is faithful the the vows, could one be asked to leave because of their personality?

Here is a good read from "The Counsels To A Religious" by Saint John of The Cross that says well about living in a community:

"To practice the second counsel, which concerns mortification, and profit by it, you should engrave this truth on your heart. And it is that you have not come to the monastery for any other reason than to be worked and tried in virtue; you are like the stone that must be chiseled and fashioned before being set in the building. Thus you should understand that those who are in the monastery are craftsmen placed there by God to mortify you by working and chiseling at you. Some will chisel with words, telling you what you would rather not hear; others by deed, doing against you what you would rather not endure; others by their temperament, being in their person and in their actions a bother and annoyance to you; and others by their thoughts, neither esteeming nor feeling love for you. You ought to suffer these mortifications and annoyances with inner patience, being silent for love of God and understanding that you did not enter the religious life for any other reason than for others to work you in this way, and so you become worthy of heaven. If this was not your reason for entering the religious state, you should not have done so, but should have remained in the world to seek your comfort, honor, reputation, and ease."

[laetitia crucis]

[quote name='In The Arms of The Lord' timestamp='1285354272' post='2175719']
Here is a good read from "The Counsels To A Religious" by Saint John of The Cross that says well about living in a community:

"To practice the second counsel, which concerns mortification, and profit by it, you should engrave this truth on your heart. And it is that you have not come to the monastery for any other reason than to be worked and tried in virtue; you are like the stone that must be chiseled and fashioned before being set in the building. Thus you should understand that those who are in the monastery are craftsmen placed there by God to mortify you by working and chiseling at you. Some will chisel with words, telling you what you would rather not hear; others by deed, doing against you what you would rather not endure; others by their temperament, being in their person and in their actions a bother and annoyance to you; and others by their thoughts, neither esteeming nor feeling love for you. You ought to suffer these mortifications and annoyances with inner patience, being silent for love of God and understanding that you did not enter the religious life for any other reason than for others to work you in this way, and so you become worthy of heaven. If this was not your reason for entering the religious state, you should not have done so, but should have remained in the world to seek your comfort, honor, reputation, and ease."
[/quote]

We heard this one read multiple times during postulancy and novitiate, especially during our "Good Nights". In fact, it is still engraved in my brain.

Juanito is a good man.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1285335550' post='2175667']
Not many surprises left for me. What conclusion did you come to about what might surprise you?
[/quote]

I'd love to hear about what things surprised you in the past--even if they aren't surprises now. You love Carmel so much, I'm sure there were some wonderful surprises that made you love Carmel.

Also, since we're all so excited about your upcoming postulancy, we'd love to hear about what surprised you about this particular Carmel--or things you learned about yourself there. Obviously, there are things too personal to share, but you've seemed SO happy since you returned from your live-in that there must have been some wonderful things you found in this Carmel.

Obviously, if you don't feel comfortable sharing, we'll understand, but I love hearing about your experiences, because they have taught me a lot.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1285344812' post='2175689']
How hard and uncomfortable it can be to be in a very formal order.

How in social time, how hard it really is. I mean, it's scheduled, so you have to make yourself think up things to say; whereas at home, things will just come to me, or in doing something together, jokes and thoughts come. It isn't so natural, fun and casual in the convent. At least, at most of the orders I tried out. It's also harder because you don't quite have the closeness, humor, hugs and affection, like with close loved ones. Also, it feels unnatural to me being in stiff chairs, all ordered, and trying to socialize like that. I guess I'm a bit laid back in many ways.

How hard routine can get when everything is scheduled and structed down to a T through the entire day. I'm used to flexability, spontaneity, and change.

How hard it can be to hear certain peoples voices so much, and to hear the songs and chants sung so much every single day.

How EXTRA SENSITIVE you get to things that happen with others, or little annoyances in prayer time (ex. noisy breathing/moaning, noisy Rosary, etc.)

How hard it can be sometimes to be in a slowed-down, hidden life. I feel at times like I need to be really working toward something, being active, helping people. Though it could partly be due to my ADHD.

At times, how hard it can be with pride, to be submissive and obedient to a superior. Not so much in doing it, but in getting thoughts that maybe they aren't making the best decision, questioning if it goes against my conscience, questioning if I should say something, questioning if I could do things better. Not all of this has happened, but there have been things in my life, that I could see that could happen if it occured in the convent.

Being more reserved than you normally are and being around others that act that way. Being less friendly, funny, affectionate, etc. This has been my experience, and I think it is incorrect. Many think they have to act Holy to be a religious, but rather it's about being who you truly are, being REAL. St. Francis De Sales says "Be who you are and be that well."

Being away from loved ones. BIGGY.

Meanness and coldness from others in community.




These are just some things I could think of. I have been praying for purification of my attitudes and difficulties.
[/quote]

I've heard others say that about Recreation--it is different than what most of us are used to, and I'm sure it takes getting used to. I wonder how much of it is due to being "new"--even after several years, and how much is due to the individual community.

I think I would find obedience nearly impossible, and would find a very highly structured community very difficult--although most Communities seem to have more structure than life outside a religious community might have. But, heck, daily life for most people "in the world" has a lot of structure, too--Having to get to work on time, certain things that have to be done at certain times--whether at work or as a full-time mother. I think it must be hard to know which parts of religious life are meant to "stretch" you as a person, and which are so much against your personality and temperament that you could work more effectively or God in a different environment. And, sometimes, for better or worse, senior members of the community make the choice for you that you would be more effective somewhere else.

Having to be more reserved was something I hit in corporate life, too. I just thought all jobs were that way (because that had been my experience), but apparently jobs exist where you can "be yourself" and be appreciated for that. So, ideally, there would also be a religious community that would call on you to "stretch," but to stretch in order to best use your gifts from God, not fit some mold that others have set.

One thing I've learned as I've gotten older is that we too often assume that other people are like we are. And, others assume that we are just like they are. And, neither is true. I'm still learning to truly appreciate and understand the incredible diversity of human beings. And, God makes use of this huge variety of temperaments and gifts.

Not everyone is going to love us all the time. And, some saints have endured incredible things from their fellow "brothers and sisters"--to the point of physical torture. A time that I hope and expect is past.

Still, my idealism hopes that for every person called to religious life, there is a community where they are both "stretched" and called to be the best person they can be for God, but that, even in the difficult times, there is an underlying acceptance and support from the community. Perhaps it's too idealistic--but I'd hope it would be possible to come close.

Edited September 24, 2010 by IgnatiusofLoyola

[TeresaBenedicta]

A little difficult to say what will be the most surprising, since I'm not there yet!! Haha!!

I can't wait for things to surprise my [i]black[/i] socks off my feet.

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' timestamp='1285363773' post='2175754']
I'd love to hear about what things surprised you in the past--even if they aren't surprises now. You love Carmel so much, I'm sure there were some wonderful surprises that made you love Carmel.

Also, since we're all so excited about your upcoming postulancy, we'd love to hear about what surprised you about this particular Carmel--or things you learned about yourself there. Obviously, there are things too personal to share, but you've seemed SO happy since you returned from your live-in that there must have been some wonderful things you found in this Carmel.

Obviously, if you don't feel comfortable sharing, we'll understand, but I love hearing about your experiences, because they have taught me a lot.
[/quote]


What surprised me about this Carmel is everything! It wasn't like any of the ones I had been in before, but I think a lot of that has to do with culture, being Australian and not English. The Carmelite things are all still Carmelite but in a different way.

For example, the problem that others have brought up about not being able to be oneself and Recreation being stiff and formal -- not so here. Recreation is a laugh a minute and I feel I CAN be myself, crazy and fun and full of life if I want, or quiet and reserved if I am feeling a little more 'interior' that day. One of the words they use is 'individuation'. They want to be individuals within a community. That takes away a lot of the stress about trying too hard to be perfect. It's hard to explain because it is an attitude and a feeling rather than a custom or a rule.

Don't get me wrong, the place itself isn't perfect, because none of the individuals are perfect (nor is that possible IMO) but the things that I find hard are just part of that process that Juan talks about.... if that wasn't happening then I would start to get worried!

[morostheos]

I think what has surprised me the most is how different communities can be from one another, yet still both be true to the same spirituality and spirit. With the Franciscan sisters I'm with now, they are all VERY MUCH themselves - there doesn't seem to be a lot of reservation! Of course, I'm just about to enter pre-postulancy, so I could be wrong.

But just in general, with schedules, prayer commitments, and community norms, this community is very different than what I would imagine any community to be like based on my prior experience with the Regnum Christi consecrated. I am constantly surprised by all the different types of things they do that I never thought of as "nunly."

I think in many ways I had an idea in my head of religious life that I was really dreading, but was willing to try since it seemed to be God's will. The more I learn, the more I realize the things I was most dreading and most afraid of not being able to handle don't even exist in this community.