Most Surprising Thing

[laetitia crucis]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1285388349' post='2175817']

[quote name='Lilllabettt' timestamp='1285388015' post='2175816']

All of this bad stuff I found surprising. I wasn't surprised by any good stuff ... but not because there wasn't good stuff! There was! But none of it was a surprise to me. I was expecting religious life to be a slice of heaven, and it was in many ways. [b]There is nothing like the joy that comes from community life. There is nothing like sleeping under the same roof as Jesus. There is nothing like waking up in the morning and thinking: "I am a Sister. I am living a life consecrated to God." It is, like the best Christmas ever X 500.[/b]
[/quote]

This
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Ditto!!! (Especially the bolded bits!)

[quote name='MissScripture' timestamp='1285390973' post='2175818']
In that Sister's defense, she may not have been aware she was even moving her leg. I bounce my legs constantly, and it annoys the snot out of some people who sit next to me during class and whatnot, but I sincerely don't even realize I'm doing it.
[/quote]



This is totally true, MIss. I really don't think she was aware. So, that's what I always had to remind myself to keep my sanity. "She doesn't realize it. She doesn't realize it. She doesn't realize it., etc." I think that was my mantra in Adoration. Along with, "Dear God, help me love! Help me LOVE!"

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='laetitia crucis' timestamp='1285398105' post='2175834']

This is totally true, MIss. I really don't think she was aware. So, that's what I always had to remind myself to keep my sanity. "She doesn't realize it. She doesn't realize it. She doesn't realize it., etc." I think that was my mantra in Adoration. Along with, "Dear God, help me love! Help me LOVE!"
[/quote]

I might have reached over and put my hand on her leg to make her stop!

[Indwelling Trinity]

This is one of the most real threads on religious life i have read on phatmass! It is the reality of what religious life entails. Religious life is both deep joy and crucible.

Thank you all for your posts.

[krissylou]

A good friend of my mother's entered a convent as a young woman, but left early in formation.

She is a very giving, generous sort of person -- which is a big part of what attracted her to a life of service to God and neighbor as a Sister.

In the convent, she found, EVERYONE was like that -- which meant there was very little outlet for generosity because everyone wanted to be giving and no one wanted to receive.

Hmmm.

[Nunsense]

[quote name='krissylou' timestamp='1285423828' post='2175868']
A good friend of my mother's entered a convent as a young woman, but left early in formation.

She is a very giving, generous sort of person -- which is a big part of what attracted her to a life of service to God and neighbor as a Sister.

In the convent, she found, EVERYONE was like that -- which meant there was very little outlet for generosity because everyone wanted to be giving and no one wanted to receive.

Hmmm.
[/quote]


Sounds like an incredible place to live - if everyone was completely self-giving! I simply can't imagine such perfection. At least I haven't seen such a thing personally

[krissylou]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1285429831' post='2175875']
Sounds like an incredible place to live - if everyone was completely self-giving! I simply can't imagine such perfection. At least I haven't seen such a thing personally
[/quote]

Yes and no ...

Okay this was forty years ago, and got passed down through a couple intermediaries and after all plenty of people DID stay and likely had different perceptions etc etc etc.

But, the phenomenon of wanting to give to everyone else and not being able to or willing to receive yourself is a real one, and it's not perfection. It is a subtle form of pride.

[HopefulBride]

You guys are giving me so much to think about. I knew that religious life wouldn't be easy (especially thinking of st. therérèse's little way) however I never imagined how much the little annoyances from the outside world might surface behind convent walls. Thanks for sharing.

Now I am going to think in terms of the sisters o have spent some time with and will repost.

[Nunsense]

[quote name='krissylou' timestamp='1285438345' post='2175893']
Yes and no ...

Okay this was forty years ago, and got passed down through a couple intermediaries and after all plenty of people DID stay and likely had different perceptions etc etc etc.

But, the phenomenon of wanting to give to everyone else and not being able to or willing to receive yourself is a real one, and it's not perfection. It is a subtle form of pride.
[/quote]


Perhaps I was yanking your chain just a little, but it did seem a little too perfect for words that everyone wanted to give all the time. don't take me too seriously, ok? I have found nuns to be very 'normal' human beings, just like me. Sometimes they will have the patience of a saint, and other times they will snap at a seemingly small thing (like Therese when her pillows were being fluffed while she was very sick).

But you are right, pride is a very subtle thing, and it manifests itself in a variety of ways in community life. The secret for me is not to focus on the other sisters or their apparent failings, or even to spend more time than necessary considering my own, but to try to keep my gaze on Jesus as much as possible. If even the just man falls seven times a day, then I can expect that this will be my lot as well. It is the getting up again that is important.

As for difficulties in receiving... I am experiencing this right now because I am sick, and I hate being sick. My sister tries to take care of me and I hate that I need to inconvenience her in any way. Of course, she gets pleasure out of helping me, but I still don't want 'to be a bother'. I am not sure if this is pride or not, but it is certainly humbling to be dependant on others, that's for sure. I always think the elderly sisters in the convent are so humble because they have to be dependant on others to help them do things and they usually accept this help cheerfully and gratefully. God always gets us in the end.... no escape

[Antigonos]

One thing that really stands out, to me, in this thread, is that none of you have ever been married. The annoyances that you describe may be different in some of the particulars, but they are common to every husband and wife that have ever lived. The difference between moaning/breathing heavily or leg jiggling during prayer, and underwear and towels continually dropped on the bathroom floor and squeezing toothpaste from the middle of the tube really is one of quantity vs. quality.<IMG class=bbc_emoticon alt= src="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif"> Normally, folks don't get divorced because one [or both] of the partners is a slob; you learn to live with it.

Edited September 26, 2010 by Antigonos

[Nunsense]

[quote name='Antigonos' timestamp='1285506936' post='2176028']
One thing that really stands out, to me, in this thread, is that none of you have ever been married. The annoyances that you describe may be different in some of the particulars, but they are common to every husband and wife that have ever lived. The difference between moaning/breathing heavily or leg jiggling during prayer, and underwear and towels continually dropped on the bathroom floor and squeezing toothpaste from the middle of the tube really is one of quantity vs. quality.
[/quote]


You made me laugh because your words conjure up such vivid images. The fact is that some of us currently discerning religious have actually been married or even raised families, and even for those who haven't, just sharing with siblings or parents or flatmates can often cause the same small annoyances and grievances to spring up, so there is plenty of opportunity for everyone to experience what you describe.

The main difference in religious life, is that there is often less 'wiggle room' for distractions to take one's mind off of the petty irritations. Even in active communities, there is usually a set horarium, and many of the activities must be done in common, like it or not. In a marriage or family or with flatmates, an individual can often choose to say something to the offender (not encouraged in community), or leave the room or find some other coping mechanism.

In a cloister especially, there is often no recourse at all except to grin and bear it, all for the love of God and neighbor. That's okay, because religious life is all about letting God shape one, but that doesn't mean it isn't difficult to do.

My daughter is in the military, and her life is much like a convent, except that at the end of her shift, she goes off base to her apartment. And on her days off (none of these in the convent) she can do whatever she wants.

So, although I agree that there are similarities between family life and religious community life, there are also some rather striking differences as well. The main one being that in religious life, one tries to align their self-will with God's will 24/7. The only thing that I think compares even remotely to this kind of unrelenting surrender is raising a child. That too, is a 24/7 job of giving and that's why it's best done with two people, who can take turns relieving each other.

Just some thoughts....

[MissScripture]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1285507735' post='2176030']

So, although I agree that there are similarities between family life and religious community life, there are also some rather striking differences as well. [b]The main one being that in religious life, one tries to align their self-will with God's will 24/7.[/b] The only thing that I think compares even remotely to this kind of unrelenting surrender is raising a child. That too, is a 24/7 job of giving and that's why it's best done with two people, who can take turns relieving each other.

Just some thoughts....
[/quote]
I'm not trying to be argumentative, but isn't aligning your will with God's will supposed to be the goal of [i]any[/i] Catholic's life, and so that should be the goal of marriage as well? I mean, I know that it's different to be married versus joining a convent --for one thing, in marriage, you're adjusting to one person, instead of dozens of people. But the goal is kind of the same, isn't it?

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='MissScripture' timestamp='1285525515' post='2176090']
I'm not trying to be argumentative, but isn't aligning your will with God's will supposed to be the goal of [i]any[/i] Catholic's life, and so that should be the goal of marriage as well? I mean, I know that it's different to be married versus joining a convent --for one thing, in marriage, you're adjusting to one person, instead of dozens of people. But the goal is kind of the same, isn't it?
[/quote]

The goal is definitely same. I think [i]how[/i] it is achieved might be somewhat different. For better or for worse, a religious has a pretty clear picture of what God's will is for them-- it either comes straight from their superior or they ask their superior. The struggle then becomes accepting the will of God expressed through their superior, [i]loving[/i] the will of God expressed through their superior.

Married couples, God bless them, have to struggle more with figuring out what exactly God's will is for them. So I think the struggle is more emphasized on that.

Just my thoughts though.

[Sarah147]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1285507735' post='2176030']
The main difference in religious life, is that there is often less 'wiggle room' for distractions to take one's mind off of the petty irritations. Even in active communities, there is usually a set horarium, and many of the activities must be done in common, like it or not. [/quote]




[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1285507735' post='2176030']
In a marriage or family or with flatmates, an individual can often choose to say something to the offender (not encouraged in community), or leave the room or find some other coping mechanism.

In a cloister especially, there is often no recourse at all except to grin and bear it, all for the love of God and neighbor. That's okay, because religious life is all about letting God shape one, but that doesn't mean it isn't difficult to do.
[/quote]


Why can't we speak up in the convent? Isn't that justice and love? The Bible speaks of correcting/councelling one another in love. How can people learn, grow and change if the habits/actions they are unaware of aren't brought to their attention, and advice given? I've realized many, many behaviors in myself only after they were brought to my attention, and I really needed the advice on how to change. I greatly appreciate help in growing.

I know at one convent I visited, they would councel me in many noise-related and physical-position issues, and many other things.

[Lilllabettt]

[quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1285535863' post='2176117']






Why can't we speak up in the convent? Isn't that justice and love? The Bible speaks of correcting/councelling one another in love. How can people learn, grow and change if the habits/actions they are unaware of aren't brought to their attention, and advice given? I've realized many, many behaviors in myself only after they were brought to my attention, and I really needed the advice on how to change. I greatly appreciate help in growing.

I know at one convent I visited, they would councel me in many noise-related and physical-position issues, and many other things.
[/quote]


When I was in formation, it was only the superior's place to correct another Sister. She has the special grace that comes with being Superior. For other Sisters; it was just not our place.
That said: if something another Sister did was bothering us, we could bring it up with our mutual Superior, and she would decide how to handle it. Sometimes that meant the other Sister's behavior received correction, other times no. In which case it was God's will for us to "offer it up."

The main reason is that Sisters don't have the grace that comes with being Superior.

[Sarah147]

Yeah. I could see how that could get out of hand, with everyone telling eachother how to do things.

[Nunsense]

[quote name='MissScripture' timestamp='1285525515' post='2176090']
I'm not trying to be argumentative, but isn't aligning your will with God's will supposed to be the goal of [i]any[/i] Catholic's life, and so that should be the goal of marriage as well? I mean, I know that it's different to be married versus joining a convent --for one thing, in marriage, you're adjusting to one person, instead of dozens of people. But the goal is kind of the same, isn't it?
[/quote]


Oh yes, you get no argument from me there. It should be the goal of every person to sanctify their soul through obedience to God's will and through faithfulness to the teachings of the Magesterium. No argument at all.

I think I was trying to point out that the life in religious communities is different than life in the world. In some ways it is easier to to align oneself with God's will because the whole focus is on the evangelical counsels through vows. The vow of obedience makes it much easier to discern God's will and therefore to follow it. Often just discerning His will is the hard part.

On the other hand, it seems to be a natural human reaction to want 'freedom' of choice in all things. This is an illusion of course, because there is so much that we cannot control in life, but still, as adults we can make small choices such as when to get up, when to go to bed, when to eat or drink, what to wear, etc etc.... all very small things but they can take on very significant proportions when this freedom is taken away (think about prison life as a bad example). Here is Australia we have refugee camps for 'boat people' who land in the country without permission. They are basically prisoners while their immigration status is being processed. One could say that they are better off than in their own countries or they wouldn't have left there, but does anyone think that that their lose of freedom is something attractive? Of course not, but they do hope for a better life once they leave the camp.

A very long winded way of saying, that a person who enters religious life is giving up their freedom to make all the little day to day choices that most of us take for granted. This isn't easy. But they too, like the boat people, see a greater freedom at the end of their journey. They are surrendering their self-will to achieve union with God's will. Personally, I have also found a real freedom in the vow of obedience itself, but that is hard to explain.

Sometimes I think the only way a person can really understand religious life is to experience it first hand. But there are some great documentaries that do give a snapshot of it.

Maybe someone else can explain it better than I can?

[Nunsense]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' timestamp='1285542416' post='2176134']
When I was in formation, it was only the superior's place to correct another Sister. She has the special grace that comes with being Superior. For other Sisters; it was just not our place.
That said: if something another Sister did was bothering us, we could bring it up with our mutual Superior, and she would decide how to handle it. Sometimes that meant the other Sister's behavior received correction, other times no. In which case it was God's will for us to "offer it up."

The main reason is that Sisters don't have the grace that comes with being Superior.
[/quote]


Yes, this is the same in the convents I have been in - one never corrects another sister. And the funny thing is that it isn't hte big things that drive one nuts, it is the little things, and then only sometimes. I think of it like sandpaper polishing a piece of wood or a stone - much needed for the final product to look and feel beautiful.

[Sarah147]

Nunsense, and have you found that in following obedience in the convent, that giving up your self-will has really, really helped you get over pride and attachments, and to really grow in love, faith, trust, deeper prayer, and your relationship with Jesus?

[Nunsense]

[quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1285550971' post='2176154']
Nunsense, and have you found that in following obedience in the convent, that giving up your self-will has really, really helped you get over pride and attachments, and to really grow in love, faith, trust, deeper prayer, and your relationship with Jesus?
[/quote]


Joyful Life - I don't know how to answer that. I don't think I will ever get over pride and attachments in this life. In fact I heard that one doesn't actually let go of their own self-will until ten minutes after they're dead!

As for the growing in love, faith and all those really good things, the religious life is a real intensive care ward for me, and I seem to be in great need of this kind of help. But religious life is definitely not a requirement for this kind of growth, more of a learning aid I think. I know very holy people who are totally in love with Jesus but they aren't in religious life. I just need it because I am tough nut to crack.