Adorers Of The Royal Heart Of Jesus Christ Sovereign Priest

[LaPetiteSoeur]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' timestamp='1306676553' post='2247365']
Why do people cling to such such rigid ideas about what religious life should look like???

When they built the Shrine in Alabama, the one attached to Mother Angelica's community, some people complained about its "opulence." I remember one famous priest calling it the "Tomb of Lady Poverty." I can see his point because these are Poor Clares! But the reality is the community does not live in the Shrine. They live in the Monastery, which is very simple. They worship the King of Kings in the Shrine - it is His palace and they gave Him the best.

The Sisters pictured here are not Franciscans; their Salesian spirituality emphasizes simplicity of spirit, not corporal poverty. They are also Benedictine, with a strong, special emphasis on celebrating the Liturgy in all its majesty. This is their charism, their particular gift of the Spirit to the Church.

If its not your cup of tea, fine! But why suggest that one way of doing things is the "right" way?

Its such a stiff and rigid way of thinking!
[/quote]



As there are all different kinds of Catholics, there are different religious orders to fit their callings to religious life. No one should judge them if they are living a life faithful to Christ and the Church.

Edited May 29, 2011 by LaPetiteSoeur

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' timestamp='1306676553' post='2247365']
Why do people cling to such such rigid ideas about what religious life should look like???

When they built the Shrine in Alabama, the one attached to Mother Angelica's community, some people complained about its "opulence." I remember one famous priest calling it the "Tomb of Lady Poverty." I can see his point because these are Poor Clares! But the reality is the community does not live in the Shrine. They live in the Monastery, which is very simple. They worship the King of Kings in the Shrine - it is His palace and they gave Him the best.

The Sisters pictured here are not Franciscans; their Salesian spirituality emphasizes simplicity of spirit, not corporal poverty. They are also Benedictine, with a strong, special emphasis on celebrating the Liturgy in all its majesty. This is their charism, their particular gift of the Spirit to the Church.

If its not your cup of tea, fine! But why suggest that one way of doing things is the "right" way?

Its such a stiff and rigid way of thinking!
[/quote]

iawtc

I was trying to say something to this effect, but failed miserably and erased my post. Kudos to you, Lilllabettt, for getting my point across.

[jkaands]

It's simply another opinion. It's not stiff and rigid. I simply am disagreeing. The OP thought that it was lovely. I think that it's pretty, and impressive, but I also find it triumphal and ostentatious, and therefore, to me, somewhat repellent.

[Lilllabettt]

[quote name='jkaands' timestamp='1306681547' post='2247397']
It's simply another opinion. It's not stiff and rigid. I simply am disagreeing. The OP thought that it was lovely. I think that it's pretty, and impressive, but I also find it triumphal and ostentatious, and therefore, to me, somewhat repellent.
[/quote]


Well, I think its good to have a diversity of opinion. "Not my cup of tea," "it rubs me the wrong way" - fine.

But some posts on this thread suggest that these ceremonies represent a departure from authentic spirituality and are contrary to the Gospel example of Jesus.

That to me is way over the top and represents "my way or the highway" type thinking.
There are multiple ways of living religious life, receiving the habit, making vows, praying the Liturgy etc., and they are all legitimate, even the ones that don't suit my tastes.

Edited May 29, 2011 by Lilllabettt

[LadyOfSorrows]

[quote name='Antigonos' timestamp='1306568017' post='2247010']
I wonder why they gave up on St.Louis...or what became of Mere Marie de la Amour de Dieu...I find the order fascinating; everything is in such perfect taste.
[/quote]

Currently, the move to St. Louis is on hold due to illness of one of the sisters who was supposed to be here. They do not know if they will establish a foundation in the near future.

[jkaands]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' timestamp='1306686054' post='2247408']
Well, I think its good to have a diversity of opinion. "Not my cup of tea," "it rubs me the wrong way" - fine.

But some posts on this thread suggest that these ceremonies represent a departure from authentic spirituality and are contrary to the Gospel example of Jesus.

That to me is way over the top and represents "my way or the highway" type thinking.
There are multiple ways of living religious life, receiving the habit, making vows, praying the Liturgy etc., and they are all legitimate, even the ones that don't suit my tastes.
[/quote]

No, it's not 'my way'--it's Jesus' way. The quotes are from what is the clear indication of the Gospels, including the Beatitudes from the Sermon on the Mount.

I think that celebration has its place. However, you have to realize that the Adoratrice celebration featured is of postulants becoming novices. The second step. They could leave or be dismissed at any time. I think that the pomp and circumstance is a little premature.

Here's a celebration that I think has greater weight and is, to my mind, more in proportion. The Benedictines of Mary Queen of the Apostles were able finally to build and consecrate a monastery and with it, their 11 finally professed sisters were able to take solemn vows. Check out the 2010 Special Edition of their newsletters:

http://www.benedictinesofmary.org/page-archivednewsletters.html

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='jkaands' timestamp='1306688732' post='2247418']
No, it's not 'my way'--it's Jesus' way. The quotes are from what is the clear indication of the Gospels, including the Beatitudes from the Sermon on the Mount.

I think that celebration has its place. However, you have to realize that the Adoratrice celebration featured is of postulants becoming novices. The second step. They could leave or be dismissed at any time. I think that the pomp and circumstance is a little premature.

Here's a celebration that I think has greater weight and is, to my mind, more in proportion. The Benedictines of Mary Queen of the Apostles were able finally to build and consecrate a monastery and with it, their 11 finally professed sisters were able to take solemn vows. Check out the 2010 Special Edition of their newsletters:

[url="http://www.benedictinesofmary.org/page-archivednewsletters.html"]http://www.benedicti...ewsletters.html[/url]
[/quote]

If you look at the links, it appears that at the same ceremony, several novices took their first vows. So, the ceremony was for something like 10 sisters.

And, as Lillibett said, the sisters themselves do not live in opulence, but are rehabbing an old house as their monastery.

Since I do not live in Italy, and I know very little about this Order, I don't feel it's my place to make judgements about how they serve God. Perhaps the ceremony was because the service was presided over by a Cardinal. And, the church is obviously old. If the church is there, why not use it?

One thing that "I" was impressed by was that I have never seen so many semnarians in my life. I couldn't tell if they were members of the Order, studying to be priests, or if they were diocescan seminarians. But, either way, to have so many semnarians, and something like 10 young women pursuing vocations is a sign of God working, IMO.

Edited May 29, 2011 by IgnatiusofLoyola

[faithcecelia]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' timestamp='1306703325' post='2247494']
One thing that "I" was impressed by was that I have never seen so many semnarians in my life. I couldn't tell if they were members of the Order, studying to be priests, or if they were diocescan seminarians. But, either way, to have so many semnarians, and something like 10 young women pursuing vocations is a sign of God working, IMO.
[/quote]

[organwerke]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' timestamp='1306703325' post='2247494']
If you look at the links, it appears that at the same ceremony, several novices took their first vows. So, the ceremony was for something like 10 sisters.

And, as Lillibett said, the sisters themselves do not live in opulence, but are rehabbing an old house as their monastery.

Since I do not live in Italy, and I know very little about this Order, I don't feel it's my place to make judgements about how they serve God. Perhaps the ceremony was because the service was presided over by a Cardinal. And, the church is obviously old. If the church is there, why not use it?

One thing that "I" was impressed by was that I have never seen so many semnarians in my life. I couldn't tell if they were members of the Order, studying to be priests, or if they were diocescan seminarians. But, either way, to have so many semnarians, and something like 10 young women pursuing vocations is a sign of God working, IMO.
[/quote]

I live in Italy, at about 1 hour and half from these sisters. First of all, I can completely confirm what Luigi said, that Italy is a country only traditionally or culturally catholic, but the reality is that liturgies are usually a pity and people are not truly catholic in facts. I found much much much more devotion and faith in France for example than in Italy.
This said, I've visited these sisters in Italy and first of all I can say that there were so many seminarians because there is a big seminary (of the same order) just next the sisters.
The place where they live (consider that, even if they are in Italy, I think that if not all, almost all the nuns and the priests are not Italian) is usually considered a bit "trendy" by strangers and...maybe also a little "snob"...I don't know, it reminds me the atmosphere of the Film "A Room with a View" to give the idea (btw it is my favourite film ever).
I didn't visit the nun's monastery inside (the time for visits is really short, from 4 pm to 4:30 pm if I don't recall wrong) and I was not able to go when I went on my little trip there.
The lanscape you can see from the villa (where there is the seminary you can see in the pictures) is something wonderful (I am mad for this landscapes I see every time I go to Florence or Pistoia or Siena in Tuscany) and I have to say that probably the neighbours are quite rich or at least well-off, but, anyway, the whole thing is not so exaggerate considering that the institute where the cerimony took place is a very big seminary where live and study seminarians of the order from all over the world. I do not know the history of the villa, but I guess that the Institue received it as a donation from some rich lady, and, anyway, in this part of Tuscany there are lots of villas of this kind, but most of them need lots of repair and I know (I have seen it with my own eyes ) that the seminary, and also the monastery of the nuns, were repaired by the seminarians themselves.
So, what I want to say is that, beside the impresion of royalty and solemnity fro the occasion, the whole normal day life is not so higher or different compared to many other orders. Nonetheless, I can't deny there is a sort of "smell" of sophistication in the air and this is the reason for I can say that, even if I like it, definitely, this is not my cup of tea!

[jkaands]

[quote name='organwerke' timestamp='1306845993' post='2248110']
I live in Italy, at about 1 hour and half from these sisters. First of all, I can completely confirm what Luigi said, that Italy is a country only traditionally or culturally catholic, but the reality is that liturgies are usually a pity and people are not truly catholic in facts. I found much much much more devotion and faith in France for example than in Italy.
This said, I've visited these sisters in Italy and first of all I can say that there were so many seminarians because there is a big seminary (of the same order) just next the sisters.
The place where they live (consider that, even if they are in Italy, I think that if not all, almost all the nuns and the priests are not Italian) is usually considered a bit "trendy" by strangers and...maybe also a little "snob"...I don't know, it reminds me the atmosphere of the Film "A Room with a View" to give the idea (btw it is my favourite film ever).
I didn't visit the nun's monastery inside (the time for visits is really short, from 4 pm to 4:30 pm if I don't recall wrong) and I was not able to go when I went on my little trip there.
The landscape you can see from the villa (where there is the seminary you can see in the pictures) is something wonderful (I am mad for this landscapes I see every time I go to Florence or Pistoia or Siena in Tuscany) and I have to say that probably the neighbours are quite rich or at least well-off, but, anyway, the whole thing is not so exaggerated considering that the institute where the ceremony took place is a very big seminary where live and study seminarians of the order from all over the world. I do not know the history of the villa, but I guess that the Institute received it as a donation from some rich lady, and, anyway, in this part of Tuscany there are lots of villas of this kind, but most of them need lots of repair and I know (I have seen it with my own eyes ) that the seminary, and also the monastery of the nuns, were repaired by the seminarians themselves.
So, what I want to say is that, beside the impression of royalty and solemnity from the occasion, the whole normal day life is not so higher or different compared to many other orders. Nonetheless, I can't deny there is a sort of "smell" of sophistication in the air and this is the reason for I can say that, even if I like it, definitely, this is not my cup of tea!
[/quote]

OW, you and I are not often on the same side of the fence, but we are on this one. I, too, have smelled something behind all of this, namely money, and lots of it. Not just the nice baroque church nothing wrong with that ( I love baroque churches)--but the vestments, lace, color-coordinated birettas and capes, the cloaks with the frogs, the nuns' beautiful capes--all designed to make a big impression.

The chapel in their Swiss foundation is very simple and elegant by comparison.

[rosamundi]

[quote name='jkaands' timestamp='1306851360' post='2248138']
OW, you and I are not often on the same side of the fence, but we are on this one. I, too, have smelled something behind all of this, namely money, and lots of it. Not just the nice baroque church nothing wrong with that ( I love baroque churches)--but the vestments, lace, color-coordinated birettas and capes, the cloaks with the frogs, the nuns' beautiful capes--all designed to make a big impression.

The chapel in their Swiss foundation is very simple and elegant by comparison.
[/quote]

It is not impossible that the fabric for the habits was donated by a benefactor. You can also pick up polyester satin (which I think is what the cape fabric is, it's hard to tell from photographs), very cheaply on eBay. A quick search found it for sale for between $4 and $8 the yard. Plain white cotton for the novice veils can be had for $1 a yard.

People donate things for the Church because they believe that God deserves the best. The "Tomb for Lady Poverty" was paid for by a very small number of wealthy individuals because they felt that a throne for our Eucharistic King deserved the very best that they could provide.

And birettas are colour co-ordinated because the different colours mean different things. A red silk biretta signals that the wearer is a cardinal, an amaranth one indicates a bishop, a black one equals a priest, deacon, or seminarian. Some orders of Canons Regular wear the biretta, usually in a colour that matches their habit - the Premonstratians wear a white biretta, as an example.

I make lace. I've donated it to the church before now. There are cloistered nuns whose life's work was the creating of a set of vestments for a church.

[MithLuin]

Frogs are not expensive - a few bucks each. [url=http://www.joann.com/joann/catalog/productdetail.jsp?pageName=search&flag=true&PRODID=prd38006]Frog[/url] [url=http://www.joann.com/joann/catalog/productdetail.jsp?pageName=search&flag=true&PRODID=prd1037392]for sale[/url] [url=http://www.joann.com/joann/catalog/productdetail.jsp?pageName=search&flag=true&PRODID=prd38007]at JoAnns[/url]: $2.50- $4

Cloaks do require a lot of fabric, but are [i]extremely[/i] easy to make. I've made 5-7 myself, IIRC. One of the easiest/quickest beginner sewing projects would be to make a nice cape without a hood. The only measurement required is back of the neck to ankle (ie, a person's height).

I understand the feeling of opulence, though. I'm just suggesting that frogs not be the basis of that, as they are generally cheaper than nice buttons. They are more an indication of pageantry, as cloaks and frogs are no longer part of day to day clothing, and are more associated with costumes and bygone days.

Edited May 31, 2011 by MithLuin

[Antigonos]

[quote name='rosamundi' timestamp='1306871750' post='2248272']
There are cloistered nuns whose life's work was the creating of a set of vestments for a church.
[/quote]


I believe the intention is that the community will work in the creation and repair of vestments, once they finish renovating their convent. The building, looking at the photos, was in a truly awful state when they acquired it.

[Lilllabettt]

For a good discussion of externals and how they shouldn't be used to judge religious life, see Sr. Marie's thread [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=113114"]here[/url]

[DameAgnes]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' timestamp='1306676553' post='2247365']
Why do people cling to such such rigid ideas about what religious life should look like???

When they built the Shrine in Alabama, the one attached to Mother Angelica's community, some people complained about its "opulence." I remember one famous priest calling it the "Tomb of Lady Poverty." I can see his point because these are Poor Clares! But the reality is the community does not live in the Shrine. They live in the Monastery, which is very simple. They worship the King of Kings in the Shrine - it is His palace and they gave Him the best.

The Sisters pictured here are not Franciscans; their Salesian spirituality emphasizes simplicity of spirit, not corporal poverty. They are also Benedictine, with a strong, special emphasis on celebrating the Liturgy in all its majesty. This is their charism, their particular gift of the Spirit to the Church.

If its not your cup of tea, fine! But why suggest that one way of doing things is the "right" way?

Its such a stiff and rigid way of thinking!
[/quote]

Well said!

[organwerke]

I wish these sisters may grow in religious life and persevere all their life!

Edited June 2, 2011 by organwerke

[begin_again]

Mother Marie of the Love of God was sent to St. Louis to establish a foundation of their community here in the US. If you could have seen the pictures of what shape the convent was in that was given to this community and the work that Mother did almost single handedly, you would see a different side from the opulence to which you are opposed. Mother was sent here to see if this climate would be better for her health; however, she became quite ill here and returned to France, as I understand it. There has been no word as to her return or about the establishment of a foundation for the nuns here in the US. They also have a foundation in Ireland. Pray for Mother Marie of the Love of God, please.

[Antigonos]

The "mother house" in Gricgliano [sp?] Italy was in absolutely terrible shape -- really just an abandoned husk of a building -- when it was given to the nuns and they have been working ever since to make it habitable. For over a year they have been appealing for funds just to be able to install the proper plumbing which Italian building codes demand for a residential building.

This whole question of "opulence" is an interesting one. In my own faith, there is the concept of "hiddur mitzvah". The word mitzvah means both a good deed and a commandment. Embellishing the performance of a mitzvah -- for example, using a special cup made of silver or gold rather than an ordinary glass to make the blessing over wine which is done prior to the evening meal on Friday nights [the Sabbath] -- is regarded as praiseworthy. From a religious point of view, it is the blessing and the wine which is important, not the vessel, but making an effort increases the "specialness" of the occasion. The nuns, as I understand it, are personally poor, yet, for the glory of God, are creating a physically, as well as spiritually, beautiful atmosphere in which to worship. The entire history of the Church is replete with works of art and music which do this as well. Many convents and monasteries contain items which are intrinsically very valuable as art, but to the religious the main value is spiritual rather than financial.

[InPersonaChriste]

[img]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ZIvg_I3yHx0/Srjz0WybHGI/AAAAAAAAFHA/IQNJNCbx8bw/s400/carm3.jpg[/img]

[size=2]Souer Marie de l'Amour de Dieu of the Adorers of the Royal Heart of Jesus Christ Sovereign Priest at prayer.[/size]


[img]http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/stltoday.com/content/tncms/assets/editorial/3/d1/264/3d126404-eaac-5bd3-b206-f428b4af432a.image.jpg[/img]

Article Here: [url="http://www.stltoday.com/lifestyles/faith-and-values/article_8010f8dc-fa5f-5045-8b54-4c9f9061c840.html"]http://www.stltoday.com/lifestyles/faith-and-values/article_8010f8dc-fa5f-5045-8b54-4c9f9061c840.html[/url]

[Lisa]

[quote name='Antigonos' timestamp='1314428183' post='2295752']
The "mother house" in Gricgliano [sp?] Italy was in absolutely terrible shape -- really just an abandoned husk of a building -- when it was given to the nuns and they have been working ever since to make it habitable. For over a year they have been appealing for funds just to be able to install the proper plumbing which Italian building codes demand for a residential building.

This whole question of "opulence" is an interesting one. In my own faith, there is the concept of "hiddur mitzvah". The word mitzvah means both a good deed and a commandment. Embellishing the performance of a mitzvah -- for example, using a special cup made of silver or gold rather than an ordinary glass to make the blessing over wine which is done prior to the evening meal on Friday nights [the Sabbath] -- is regarded as praiseworthy. From a religious point of view, it is the blessing and the wine which is important, not the vessel, but making an effort increases the "specialness" of the occasion. The nuns, as I understand it, are personally poor, yet, for the glory of God, are creating a physically, as well as spiritually, beautiful atmosphere in which to worship. The entire history of the Church is replete with works of art and music which do this as well. Many convents and monasteries contain items which are intrinsically very valuable as art, but to the religious the main value is spiritual rather than financial.
[/quote]

This was a beautiful post. Thank you!