Strictest Carmelite Convents In The U.s.?

[Rising_Suns]

[quote name='Chiquitunga' timestamp='1290837975' post='2189510']
mentioned something about the French customs being a little more severe/stark .. something like that .. whereas there's, generally speaking, more of a family spirit in the Spanish customs .. I would think because Spanish/Latino cultures tend to be more social .. but that's a generalization, and only a guess. But I have also heard that French Carmels tend to emphasize solitude a bit more too .
[/quote]



For a glimpse of traditional [i]French[/i] Carmelite spirit, I would recommend watching this movie;
http://gloria.tv/?media=88487 (the English subtitles are not yet up online, but the subtitles are not necessary to observe the "French style")

For a glimpse of traditional [i]Spanish [/i]Carmelite spirit, I would recommend watching Saint Teresa of the Andes, and also reading her diary/letters. This young saint I believe is the embodiment of the organic development of the Carmelite spirit.

Everyone discerning a vocation to Carmel should read her letters!

Davide

Edited November 27, 2010 by Rising_Suns

[carmelite15]

[quote name='Rising_Suns' timestamp='1290899548' post='2189575']


For a glimpse of traditional [i]French[/i] Carmelite spirit, I would recommend watching this movie;
http://gloria.tv/?media=88487 (the English subtitles are not yet up online, but the subtitles are not necessary to observe the "French style")

For a glimpse of traditional [i]Spanish [/i]Carmelite spirit, I would recommend watching Saint Teresa of the Andes, and also reading her diary/letters. This young saint I believe is the embodiment of the organic development of the Carmelite spirit.

Everyone discerning a vocation to Carmel should read her letters!

Davide
[/quote]

subtitles or not I love the movie already!!!!!!!!

Edited November 27, 2010 by carmelite15

[ameliabedelia]

[quote name='carmelite15' timestamp='1290901208' post='2189577']
subtitles or not I love the movie already!!!!!!!!
[/quote]

i just watched that whole movie and LOVED it! I didn't understand a word they said..but that is besides the point. lol

[Klaudi87]

[quote name='carmelite15' timestamp='1290901208' post='2189577']
subtitles or not I love the movie already!!!!!!!!
[/quote]

Yup, that is too beautiful!!!

[Rising_Suns]

If anyone is interested in a version of this movie with English subtitles, please let me know over PM and I will send you the download link.



.

[SrBenigna]

[quote name='holly.o' timestamp='1290823991' post='2189458']
Random question that's somewhat off-topic (sorry, brandee!)... I heard someone once say there are Spanish- & French-descended Carmels and that they have different styles. Does anyone know which are which in the US?

I only know that Buffalo is definitely a foundation from Mexico, and I'm wondering if the other above Carmels noted for their strictness are either French or Spanish in origin. Not that that proves or disproves anything (France has some pretty strict non-Carmels!), but I'm just curious...

Another random question... but since we're speaking Carmels, shouldn't vee8 be back by now? Hmmmmm....
[/quote]




The Carmel of Cristo Rey in San Francisco was founded from a Carmel in Mexico that was founded from a Carmel in Spain that was a foundation of St. Teresa of Avila's.

[SrBenigna]

[quote name='Rising_Suns' timestamp='1290899548' post='2189575']


For a glimpse of traditional [i]French[/i] Carmelite spirit, I would recommend watching this movie;
[url="http://gloria.tv/?media=88487"]http://gloria.tv/?media=88487[/url] (the English subtitles are not yet up online, but the subtitles are not necessary to observe the "French style")

For a glimpse of traditional [i]Spanish [/i]Carmelite spirit, I would recommend watching Saint Teresa of the Andes, and also reading her diary/letters. This young saint I believe is the embodiment of the organic development of the Carmelite spirit.

Everyone discerning a vocation to Carmel should read her letters!

Davide
[/quote]



I haven't watched this whole movie yet so unless they change their clothing, it's strange how the habits look like Benedictine habits more than Carmelite habits!

Edited November 28, 2010 by SrBenigna

[carmelite15]

Does anyone know about the Carmelite Monastery of Cristo Rey? and the carmelites in Morristown?

Thank you so much guys!

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

Personally, I'm looking more for the LEAST strict Carmelite convent in the U.S. I don't need a "Ritz Carmel," but maybe along the lines of a Hyatt. When I'm in really bad pain, I can't think, much less pray.

Wait, what am I thinking? Even in a plush Carmel, I have the least Carmelite sprituality of anyone I know. They'd kick me out, even if I didn't complain about the beds being too hard and the fact that I look terrible in brown.

But, the solitude and quiet, and the singing and chanting sound wonderful. (I wonder if they'd have any chairs with backs, and maybe even a cushion.)

Carmel is not for me. I need a Community that's Ignatian in spirituality (with some Dominican thrown in), has a huge library, lets me bring my cats (they are both chronically ill, but wonderful, and, as helpless creatures, my vow to my cats is one of my vows to God), and understands that, if I can't get up at 5:00 am, it's not because I love God any less.

Not gonna happen. Rough quote from "This House of Brede," something like, "For those in the infirmary, their sickness is their prayer." I liked that. God not only watches over the strong, but the weak, too. And, someone has to keep the home fires burning.

Edited November 28, 2010 by IgnatiusofLoyola

[In The Arms of The Lord]

[quote name='carmelite15' timestamp='1290943541' post='2189645']
Does anyone know about the Carmelite Monastery of Cristo Rey? and the carmelites in Morristown?

Thank you so much guys!
[/quote]


I can't really say anything about either, but here is a little page about the Carmelite Monastery of Cristo Rey: http://db.religiouslife.com/reg_life/irl.nsf/org/99 they did have a website, but it's under construction. You'll find the link on the webpage link I posted here.

I've heard that the Carmel in Valparaiso Nebraska was founded from the Cristo Rey Carmel? Here is a little something I found that might confirm this:

"The Carmel of Jesus, Mary and Joseph can be traced back to a sixteenth century Spanish Carmelite Monastery founded by Saint Teresa of Jesus. Two daughter monasteries were established in Mexico. In 1927, the Community established a Carmel in California. Later, a monastery was founded in Las Vegas, Nevada. It was discerned that God was calling them to transfer to the Lincoln Diocese."

If the Carmel in California is referring to the Cristo Rey Carmel then the traditons would be similar if not the same as what is practised in Nebraska and Pennsylvania. Though I don't know if the Cristo Rey Carmel has the Traditional Latin Mass. I think when the community came to Nebraska the Bishop asked them to have The Traditional Latin Mass, and then they started the Divine Office of the ancient Carmelite Rite also. I'm not sure if this is done at the Cristo Rey Carmel either, but I don't think it is because I think these changes started in Nebraska.

Edited November 28, 2010 by In The Arms of The Lord

[Vin]

carmelitesofrochester.org

[vee]

As the Lord told Jeremiah "I knew you before I formed you in your mother's womb" and this goes for each of us not jsut Jeremiah, so from all time God had in mind you and me and where He wanted us to be and what He intends us to be be it a Dominican, Franciscan, a mom and so on. The thing to seek is God's will because there is where you will best fit. It may not be the "strictest" Carmel, it may not even be Carmel the thing is to be open to His will, to say yes to Him always, to say "not my will but yours be done"

[LadyOfSorrows]

[quote name='vee8' timestamp='1291068707' post='2189878']
As the Lord told Jeremiah "I knew you before I formed you in your mother's womb" and this goes for each of us not jsut Jeremiah, so from all time God had in mind you and me and where He wanted us to be and what He intends us to be be it a Dominican, Franciscan, a mom and so on. The thing to seek is God's will because there is where you will best fit. It may not be the "strictest" Carmel, it may not even be Carmel the thing is to be open to His will, to say yes to Him always, to say "not my will but yours be done"
[/quote]


Well said, Vee! It is when one follows His will that they find they are able to love Him most perfectly.

[Rising_Suns]

Strictness is a good measure to help one discern a vocation to RL. But it is so, strictness must always be joined with love. Strictness without charity is worse than charity without strictness.

This is why it is so important to read the letters of St. Teresa of the Andes. She did not choose her community because they were strict. She chose them because they were strict and they loved.

Love should always be the foundation of every community. But a community that truly loves God, and one another, will also be strict in helping the sisters/brothers grow in love. Strictness, in its proper form, is an act of charity, because it never settles for stagnancy, but yearns to unite souls to Love itself.

If we think of the 20th century apparitions, we see in Our Lady the example [i]par excellence[/i] of love and strictness. Observe how She continually wants to make us better children. Observe Her infinite patience, never tiring of repeating the same words of encouragement. Observe Her gentle rebukes, tempered by the caress of a mother's hand.

Love promps strictness. But a community that is [i][u]both[/u] [/i]strict [i]and [/i]loving [b][u]is so rare! [/u][/b]


-Davide

Edited November 30, 2010 by Rising_Suns

[Graciela]

Somewhere among past posts, Nunsense posted about visiting Christo Rey in San Francisco. All I remember now is that they use both Spanish and English in the community to honor their history and they were willing to discern with her even though she was older than the usual age they considered.

Littleton Colorado Carmel is a very strict Carmel. I tend to think of the Carmels that are not members of an association at all (such as Littleton, Denmark WI, and Lake Elmo and Valparaiso) to be strict and often 1990 constitutions.

The Carmels of the St Joseph Association are aligned in their commitment to preserve the traditional observances and my understanding is that they interpret the strict papal enclosure so strictly that their association never holds meetings.

http://www.carmelitenunsstjoseph.org/index.htm

I hope this is helpful

Edited November 30, 2010 by Graciela

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='Graciela' timestamp='1291083337' post='2189937']
Somewhere among past posts, Nunsense posted about visiting Christo Rey in San Francisco. All I remember now is that they use both Spanish and English in the community to honor their history and they were willing to discern with her even though she was older than the usual age they considered.

Littleton Colorado Carmel is a very strict Carmel. I tend to think of the Carmels that are not members of an association at all (such as Littleton, Denmark WI, and Lake Elmo and Valparaiso) to be strict and often 1990 constitutions.

The Carmels of the St Joseph Association are aligned in their commitment to preserve the traditional observances and my understanding is that they interpret the strict papal enclosure so strictly that their association never holds meetings.

http://www.carmelitenunsstjoseph.org/index.htm

I hope this is helpful
[/quote]

I know from speaking with Mother Mary Elizabeth that the Carmel in Denmark, WI uses the 1991 Constitutions, but they maintain the grill and strict enclosure. The pictures and information from the website is very informative for anyone who is interested in discerning with them. Their monastery is pretty new which is why they are probably not associated with any other Carmelites.

[Chiquitunga]

[quote name='vee8' timestamp='1291068707' post='2189878']
As the Lord told Jeremiah "I knew you before I formed you in your mother's womb" and this goes for each of us not jsut Jeremiah, so from all time God had in mind you and me and where He wanted us to be and what He intends us to be be it a Dominican, Franciscan, a mom and so on. The thing to seek is God's will because there is where you will best fit. It may not be the "strictest" Carmel, it may not even be Carmel the thing is to be open to His will, to say yes to Him always, to say "not my will but yours be done"
[/quote]

[quote name='Rising_Suns' timestamp='1291078686' post='2189923']
Strictness is a good measure to help one discern a vocation to RL. But it is so, strictness must always be joined with love. Strictness without charity is worse than charity without strictness.

This is why it is so important to read the letters of St. Teresa of the Andes. She did not choose her community because they were strict. She chose them because they were strict and they loved.

Love should always be the foundation of every community. But a community that truly loves God, and one another, will also be strict in helping the sisters/brothers grow in love. Strictness, in its proper form, is an act of charity, because it never settles for stagnancy, but yearns to unite souls to Love itself.

If we think of the 20th century apparitions, we see in Our Lady the example [i]par excellence[/i] of love and strictness. Observe how She continually wants to make us better children. Observe Her infinite patience, never tiring of repeating the same words of encouragement. Observe Her gentle rebukes, tempered by the caress of a mother's hand.

Love promps strictness. But a community that is [i][u]both[/u] [/i]strict [i]and [/i]loving [b][u]is so rare! [/u][/b]


-Davide
[/quote]

Both so well said!!

[Chiquitunga]

[quote name='In The Arms of The Lord' timestamp='1290960514' post='2189662']If the Carmel in California is referring to the Cristo Rey Carmel then the traditons would be similar if not the same as what is practised in Nebraska and Pennsylvania. Though I don't know if the Cristo Rey Carmel has the Traditional Latin Mass. I think when the community came to Nebraska the Bishop asked them to have The Traditional Latin Mass, and then they started the Divine Office of the ancient Carmelite Rite also. I'm not sure if this is done at the Cristo Rey Carmel either, but I don't think it is because I think these changes started in Nebraska.
[/quote]

Yes, Valparaiso came from the [url="http://www.jnelson.com/jnelson/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=7&Itemid=17"]Carmel of Cristo Rey[/url] in San Francisco (and their chapels have some similarities like the columns and wooden chairs) They are under the 1991 Constitutions, but are still very traditional, so I have heard. On their [url="http://db.religiouslife.com/reg_life/irl.nsf/org/99"]IRL page[/url] it says, new/Traditional Masses. [url="http://www.ignatius.com/Pages/Item/591/fr-joseph-d-fessio-sj.aspx"]Here's[/url] a picture of Fr. Fessio offering a Traditional Latin Mass there. They alternate between praying the Office in English and Spanish.

[Chapel Rat]

Thanks everyone for the information for explaining what I couldn't put into words the difference of Spanish and French traditions.

I visited both French and Spanish Carmels and I couldn't explain what I felt was the difference.

Chiquitunga, you're right Latino culture is very much rooted in family and especially family functions. I'm Hispanic and I've seen the movie of St. Teresa of the Andes; her family and friends who struggle with accepting her vocation definitely hits home.

One French based Carmel is right across the street from the Shrine of Our Lady of Guadalupe, where over 100,000 people gather there on her feast day. There's a group from my parish who [u][b]walk [/b][/u]overnight (at least one did the walk barefoot!) the normally 45 minute drive to arrive to be there by 5 am.

[Chiquitunga]

[quote name='Chapel Rat' timestamp='1291140857' post='2190034']
Thanks everyone for the information for explaining what I couldn't put into words the difference of Spanish and French traditions.

I visited both French and Spanish Carmels and I couldn't explain what I felt was the difference.

Chiquitunga, you're right Latino culture is very much rooted in family and especially family functions. I'm Hispanic and I've seen the movie of St. Teresa of the Andes; her family and friends who struggle with accepting her vocation definitely hits home.

One French based Carmel is right across the street from the Shrine of Our Lady of Guadalupe, where over 100,000 people gather there on her feast day. There's a group from my parish who [u][b]walk [/b][/u]overnight (at least one did the walk barefoot!) the normally 45 minute drive to arrive to be there by 5 am.
[/quote]
Hola, Chapel Rat! (I'm definitely one of those, by the way, lol) Thanks for your post! That's interesting about the difference you felt .. and how you had a hard time putting it into words .. Personally, I like the Spanish Carmels the best .. but at the same time, I love the greater emphasize on solitude in the French Carmels .. so I'm undecided Whatever God wants in the end!

You must be talking about the Carmel in Des Plaines, IL here. They are very strict/traditional too .. of the 1990 Constitutions. Have you ever been there for the Latin Mass on First Saturdays? It is beautiful and the nuns sing throughout it (it's been going on for years too, well before the MP in 2007) I know a young woman who entered there this past July .. she must be a Novice by now. That's amazing that some from your parish walk there overnight!! Wow, my goodness .. ..

P.S. Ah, I just found an old thread of yours asking about this very thing! [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=109195"]http://www.phatmass....howtopic=109195[/url] Sorry no one replied to it! It got lost in Open Mic! I shall send you a PM!

Edited November 30, 2010 by Chiquitunga