Marriage And Religious Life

[Tally Marx]

If you feel you might be called to the religious life, and are discerning that vocation, is it advisable to discern marriage simultaneously? Meaning, should you court while discerning a vocation to the religious life? Go out with a guy/girl while corresponding and visiting religious communities?

This is a matter of contention between some of my friends and I, and I was wondering what my Phatmass Phriends think about it.

[Sarah147]

Woa. You court what you discerned you are called to. Maybe you all need to step back and discern which it is before courting. Then you court marriage OR Religious Life, not both. Unless you are just trying to get a feel for Religious Life... I'm not sure how far you ought to go. Probably get a good spiritual director to help.

There have been women on this board that were in RL and then later discerned they were called to marriage, years later.

Edited December 13, 2010 by JoyfulLife

[Tally Marx]

I presented that thought; but they argue that the only way to discern marriage is to court.

Edited December 13, 2010 by Tally Marx

[Lilllabettt]

Most vocation directors I know don't approve of it, they say it muddles things.
I think it really depends on the person.
Personally, I have been a few casual dates, and I let friends set me up when they are dying to do it.
All the boys know up front that I am considering consecrated life, but they are still so enamored of my beauty they still want buy me lunch anyway
For me this is the right decision, because in the past I was "too sure" of what God wanted for me, and so I closed things up and drove towards that. Being open to dating is an expression of my openness to God intervening in my life and moving me in a different direction. For most people I think they are able to achieve this openness in prayer, but for me it is important to make it concrete.

That said, I don't think I would start the application process with a community and continue to entertain thoughts of dating
I would not "court" someone -seriously discern marriage with them- while still visiting religious communities either.

[OnlySunshine]

When I was discerning religious life, I personally felt it was not best to keep up interest in dating, so I gave up all romance in favor of following my vocation to religious life, should I have had one. I feel that sometimes, if one gets involved with a relationship while discerning, it can definitely confuse things and make your decisions much more difficult. Best to do it one step at a time, in my humble opinion.

[TeresaBenedicta]

I think a lot depends on where you are in your discernment. And your life circumstances. If you're merely "open to the idea of" religious life, then I would say there's little danger to dating/courting. Like your friends say, courting is really the best way to discern marriage... the old saying, "you don't discern marriage in general, you discern marriage to a particular person." Sometimes meeting someone and being open to that turning into dating is the means through which God reveals your vocation to you.

On the other hand, if you're a little more serious in your discernment... Even if you have some feeling of possibly being called, more than just "being open" to the religious life, I think you owe God the first pick. Discern the religious life. And if you discern that it's NOT what God is calling you to be, then open yourself to the possibility of discerning marriage with someone.

This is from the Nashville Dominican's FAQ:

"Because the call to religious life is an invitation to freely follow Christ and choose Him as Spouse, dating in the midst of discernment often only throws shadows on how to proceed. The call to religious life, like that of marriage, is a radical call to surrender oneself wholly to the other. In the case of religious life, this surrender is to Christ alone in the totality of our self-gift. Because all of our loves are ordered in and through Christ, we can lose nothing by setting dating aside for a time to allow Christ to speak to our hearts and direct the love He has first given to us."

[tinytherese]

I agree that courtship and SERIOUS DISCERNING do not mix. Being open to the possibility of religious life and courting is another matter entirely.

If during courtship, one wants to check it out as in be in contact with a community and to visit them, then one's boyfriend or girlfriend deserves to be told this as a heads up. One of my friends had a traumatic experience where he was with a young woman who was everything that he wanted in a wife and thought that they would get married and out of the blue she told him that she was entering a particular convent. He had no idea that this was even a possibility for her and this really hurt him.

I know that years ago when I was seriously discerning that I was tempted to date. I thought it was expected of me and I was curious about what a relationship like that would be like. Part of it was also that I was lonely. In the end though, I didn't do it because I felt that since religious life was such a strong likelyhood for me (in fact at the time I was sure that I would enter,) that dating would just be using a guy, especially if the two of us really connected. That could also confuse me in my discernment. At that time in my life, I wouldn't have been mature enough for a relationship anyway. With dating out of the picture, I had more time to focus on my spiritual life. Now in the end, after several years of discerning which included community visits, I discerned that the religious life isn't for me afterall. I did however benefit from that time of discerning.

[Tally Marx]

Thank you for the responses, everyone!
I also heard it put this way-
That we are all called to marriage (TOB, you know; being made for communion, because we are in the image of a a Trinitarian God) and that if we go out to with another for the specific purpose of discerning marriage, then of course we are going to find we are called to marriage. Because of this, we are supposed to discern to rule out the religious life, not the other way around.

[elizabeth09]

You can still have the call to religious life, but if you do both, then you boy/girlfrined will think that you do not like he/her too much.

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='elizabeth09' timestamp='1292557913' post='2193138']
You can still have the call to religious life, but if you do both, then you boy/girlfrined will think that you do not like he/her too much.
[/quote]

Or you could get caught up in human affection and not be able to answer the call to religious life.

[krissylou]

[quote name='Tally Marx' timestamp='1292557564' post='2193136']
Thank you for the responses, everyone!
I also heard it put this way-
That we are all called to marriage (TOB, you know; being made for communion, because we are in the image of a a Trinitarian God) and that if we go out to with another for the specific purpose of discerning marriage, then of course we are going to find we are called to marriage. Because of this, we are supposed to discern to rule out the religious life, not the other way around.
[/quote]

That sounds weird to me.

I think I would go with the people who say you could discern both simultaneously IN THE EARLY STAGES of BOTH. Casual dates over coffee can mix with nosing around at the possibility of communities. Shopping for rings does not mix with writing to communities, nor does filling out applications mix with casual dating.

There's a whole lot of grey zone in the middle for both, which makes it hard.

But I'm quite sure I don't agree that if you try to discern marriage you will undoubtedly find that you are called to marriage.

[Tally Marx]

[quote name='krissylou' timestamp='1292599008' post='2193175']
That sounds weird to me.

I think I would go with the people who say you could discern both simultaneously IN THE EARLY STAGES of BOTH. Casual dates over coffee can mix with nosing around at the possibility of communities. Shopping for rings does not mix with writing to communities, nor does filling out applications mix with casual dating.

There's a whole lot of grey zone in the middle for both, which makes it hard.

But I'm quite sure I don't agree that if you try to discern marriage you will undoubtedly find that you are called to marriage.
[/quote]

I agree that one could casually date and simultaneously look, casually, at different communities. But I think this would go along with Ignatian Indifference; a careful neutrality which says "I want only what God wants--now, what is that?" One would do both at the same time, I think, if they were merely open to the idea of both lives, but didn't yet feel particularly called to either one. That's my opinion, anyway.

Actually, the whole "discern to rule out religious life" made a lot of sense to me. Marriage is written to the very fabric of our nature, as human beings. If one dates long enough, I think, they are bound to find a good guy/girl they are attracted to. I've never met a Sister who became such because she couldn't find a nice guy...

[Hinter dem Horizont]

I definitely don't recommend it. I'm in this predicament now where I cannot choose between courting a girl or the priesthood. I want the priesthood so badly but I cannot give up the relationship in order to go to a seminary. It's a horrible feeling.

[Klaudi87]

I don't recommend it either....we girls tend to be very emotional and get easily attached and that can become a big obstacle in your discernment process. At least for me even being open in the past about courting or dating just distracted me in my discernment. Im actually witnessing the possible loss of two religious vocations because of this courting/dating while seeriously discerning religious life. Im praying for them...may God's will be done. Of coarse only God knows but you should take precaution.

[LaPetiteSoeur]

[quote name='Tally Marx' timestamp='1292198787' post='2192423']
If you feel you might be called to the religious life, and are discerning that vocation, is it advisable to discern marriage simultaneously? Meaning, should you court while discerning a vocation to the religious life? Go out with a guy/girl while corresponding and visiting religious communities?

This is a matter of contention between some of my friends and I, and I was wondering what my Phatmass Phriends think about it.
[/quote]


It's really not such a good idea to discern [i]anything[/i] with something else. If you feel called to religious life, discern that first. It's not right to lead someone on in a relationship--be it a person or God.

[Cherie]

[quote name='LaPetiteSoeur' timestamp='1292799334' post='2193509']
If you feel called to religious life, discern that first.
[/quote]

I totally agree.

I truly believe that if someone even has an inkling toward a religious vocation, they really should focus entirely on that, until they've come to a conclusion (with proper prayer, discernment, and spiritual direction) that they're called to religious life or not.

I come from the perspective of one who was torn between marriage/religious vocation, then seriously discerned a religious vocation, then entered a community, then left, then discovered my vocation to marriage and is happily living it out with a wonderful husband and a beautiful baby boy, thanks be to God. But it was EXTREMELY important that when I thought I had a religious vocation, I focused solely on that. Sure, it didn't end up being the vocation God wanted for me, but I can honestly say I have no regrets and because I discerned and entered religious life, it shaped me into the woman I am today.

I think perhaps people avoid discerning like that because they're afraid they'll be called to religious life after all, and they want to be married. I promise you, if God is calling you to religious life, that is the only vocation in which you will find true happiness. So, be not afraid.

[Klaudi87]

[quote name='CherieMadame' timestamp='1292956901' post='2193822']
I totally agree.

I truly believe that if someone even has an inkling toward a religious vocation, they really should focus entirely on that, until they've come to a conclusion (with proper prayer, discernment, and spiritual direction) that they're called to religious life or not.

I come from the perspective of one who was torn between marriage/religious vocation, then seriously discerned a religious vocation, then entered a community, then left, then discovered my vocation to marriage and is happily living it out with a wonderful husband and a beautiful baby boy, thanks be to God. But it was EXTREMELY important that when I thought I had a religious vocation, I focused solely on that. Sure, it didn't end up being the vocation God wanted for me, but I can honestly say I have no regrets and because I discerned and entered religious life, it shaped me into the woman I am today.

I think perhaps people avoid discerning like that because they're afraid they'll be called to religious life after all, and they want to be married. I promise you, if God is calling you to religious life, that is the only vocation in which you will find true happiness. So, be not afraid.
[/quote]

YES, well put