Jesus_lol Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 The catholics arent specifically defending Elton Johns actions, but some are defending against the more vile and baseless accusations other posters are making. there is a difference between the two.
MithLuin Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 There are a lot of things wrong with this situation. Surrogacy and IVF in general separate the conception of a child from the conjugal act. They are literally 'making' babies, rather than procreation happening. That is...not a good thing. Elton John is an old man. God gives babies to the young (as someone I know likes to put it). While I imagine his finances are fine (they weren't a bit ago; an accountant bankrupted him 10-15 years ago), raising a child takes a lot of energy. Being absentee (or dead) does make things difficult on the child. And yes, his gay partnership (or whatever people are calling it) is not a moral situation. Like divorce and remarriage, it's completely against God's plans for the family. People can do whatever they want, and they don't have to answer to [i]me[/i] at the end of the day. But we are all answerable. I am very, very thankful that my parents were not public figures or celebrities.
CatherineM Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 I also have problems with his age. I don't think people should be having children unnaturally past normal child bearing years. There are lots of issues with the kids. Just as one example, fathers over the age of 50 triples the rates of schizophrenia or autism in their children.
Ed Normile Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 [quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1294031604' post='2196081'] I also have problems with his age. I don't think people should be having children unnaturally past normal child bearing years. There are lots of issues with the kids. Just as one example, fathers over the age of 50 triples the rates of schizophrenia or autism in their children. [/quote] At 63 years old Mr John was refused to be allowed to adopt a Ukrainian boy named Lev by the government on the grounds that he is gay and at 63 years old, he was too old to become a parent. There is some sanity in the world afterall! The baby's grandmother said that after the refusal Mr John had promised to help find him an adoptive family and provide ongoing financial support for the boy but as yet has not done so. She thinks he may have just used this as a publicity stunt to make it seem like he was a caring person, who would think that of such a talented homosexual person? Here is a link to the full story, including a creepy picture of the old geezer smooching the little boy. [url="http://movies.ndtv.com/movie_story.aspx?Section=Movies&ID=ENTEN20110165291&subcatg=MOVIESINDIA&keyword=music&nid=76593"]Link to story. [/url] ed
Archaeology cat Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 All other issues aside, I have a problem with the fact that the baby is being put up in a [url="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1343395/Elton-Johns-new-baby-door-1-3m-luxury-flat.html#ixzz19tZZ6iKR"]separate apartment with 2 nannies[/url]. I'm sorry, but that's not parenting. Being a parent means being responsible for your child, and being there for the good and bad. You get some great snuggles and play times, but you also get the sickness and the dirty nappies and being spit-up on. More than that, a child doesn't care about having a really well-designed apartment, but about being loved and spending time with parents. I could make sure my children had everything in the world, but my son will often just say "I want Mummy".
Mark of the Cross Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1294025887' post='2196058'] The catholics arent specifically defending Elton Johns actions, but some are defending against the more vile and baseless accusations other posters are making. there is a difference between the two. [/quote] Exactly, personally I don't like the look of the man, but that may be my problem since I know nothing about him. A person being born with an attraction to the same sex is not sinful since it was not their choice. I've heard there are spiritual people who hate themselves and feel that they are condemned by God because of their unnatural attraction. Not true! God hates the sin, but still loves the sinner and wants the sinner to reform. The only thing that appears to be established in this case is the sin of surrogacy, most probably they engage in unnatural sex which is also a sin. I've never denied that they are sinners and I am not supporting them. It's all the other condemnation, which may or may not be true that is wrong and what I take exception to. What's happening here is people are seeing sin A and adding B,C,D, and anything they can think of to condemn rather than concentrate on what is missing because of sin A as per this [quote name='jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff) (the artist formerly known as hot stuff)' timestamp='1294023349' post='2196048'] Absolutely and in fact I did that numerous times when I was running a pro-life counseling center. I had more than one volunteer who was only concerned with the evils of abortion that they had no time to care for the babies that we were saving. (or the mothers for that matter) I told them that there was a difference between being pro-life and just anti abortion. If someone is obsessed with hating the sin and does nothing to promote the positive virtues that the sin detracts from, they aren't helping. [/quote] It is our duty to promote reformation not condemnation. [quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1294014121' post='2196010'] I've been warned and suspended for less, though i doubt you will have to worry about that. [/quote] It's interesting that isn't it? A while ago 'Dust' requested people to conduct themselves in accordance with the CC or relinquish titles, yet some regular people here are downright rude, vulgar, write distorted and/or senseless posts and are continually edited for them, yet still have tags that infer that they represent the Pope. Edited January 3, 2011 by Mark of the Cross
thessalonian Posted January 3, 2011 Author Posted January 3, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1294025887' post='2196058'] The catholics arent specifically defending Elton Johns actions, but some are defending against the more vile and baseless accusations other posters are making. there is a difference between the two. [/quote] Like we don't know if they are having gaysx or promoting the gay lifestyle and trying to change societal norms. Thank you for admitting that this is vile. Did I spell nice for you. Edited January 3, 2011 by thessalonian
thessalonian Posted January 3, 2011 Author Posted January 3, 2011 [quote name='rachael' timestamp='1294071239' post='2196163'] . [/quote] Say what you feel rach.
Norseman82 Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 (edited) [quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1293560416' post='2194791'] I hope he's planning to be old, because my dad was 47 when I was born, and he died while I was still in school. I can't imagine having a child in my 60's. [/quote] Gee, thanks a lot, that REALLY inspires me. (almost 47 and STILL getting the around from your half of humanity). Edited January 3, 2011 by Norseman82
Norseman82 Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1294076999' post='2196174'] ^old^ [/quote] But not too old to go a few rounds with you in the ring
Norseman82 Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 [quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1293916305' post='2195749'] Bought a child? is that what they call adopting now? the deal about a child growing up in a "sinful" house is a crockpot full ofcrap. Every child, everywhere has grown up in a "sinful" household. You could even argue that Jesus himself did, as i dont recall Joseph being considered "clean of sin". St Michael grew up in a sinful house, Cmom did, dUSt did, and i did too, and same with my parents before me. but apparently being gay is just absolutely the sinniest sin around, and those households will forever be worse than those of us "normal" people. [/quote] But in homosexual households the sin is open and obvious and easy to identify.
Winchester Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 [quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1294077649' post='2196179'] But not too old to go a few rounds with you in the ring [/quote] I know CPR, which is a plus for you.
Norseman82 Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1294078991' post='2196186'] I know CPR, which is a plus for you. [/quote] Why, because you can self-administer?
rachael Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 [quote name='thessalonian' timestamp='1294075887' post='2196170'] Say what you feel rach. [/quote]
CatherineM Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 [quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1294076410' post='2196172'] Gee, thanks a lot, that REALLY inspires me. (almost 47 and STILL getting the around from your half of humanity). [/quote] Don't get me wrong, my dad was a great dad. I just wish I could have had him around a bunch longer.
CatherineM Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 [quote name='Archaeology cat' timestamp='1294047951' post='2196123'] All other issues aside, I have a problem with the fact that the baby is being put up in a [url="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1343395/Elton-Johns-new-baby-door-1-3m-luxury-flat.html#ixzz19tZZ6iKR"]separate apartment with 2 nannies[/url]. I'm sorry, but that's not parenting. Being a parent means being responsible for your child, and being there for the good and bad. You get some great snuggles and play times, but you also get the sickness and the dirty nappies and being spit-up on. More than that, a child doesn't care about having a really well-designed apartment, but about being loved and spending time with parents. I could make sure my children had everything in the world, but my son will often just say "I want Mummy". [/quote] He probably just doesn't want to be woken up by the midnight feedings. Although with a rocker, maybe he doesn't want to be woken up by the noon feedings.
Norseman82 Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 [quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1294080486' post='2196191'] Don't get me wrong, my dad was a great dad. I just wish I could have had him around a bunch longer. [/quote] Well, then your half of humanity shouldn't make us wait so long and blow us off with lines like "In God's time" just to get rid of us.
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