Paddington Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 PJ, Hit the reset button. You're getting pwned. Paddington
Paddington Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 I don't know if anybody in the world believes in required reading for salvation, but Catholicism has more "required reading" than Protestantism.
CatherineM Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 No matter what church I belong to, I will pay for my sins when I die. There is nothing in the Bible that contradicts a single item in the Catechism. I would love it if you could name the exact passage in the bible that contradicts a specific passage in the Catechism. Enlighten us, not with generalities or text dumps, but exact numbers, and why you think the bible contradicts it.
Lil Red Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 [quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1294103181' post='2196323'] No matter what church I belong to, I will pay for my sins when I die. There is nothing in the Bible that contradicts a single item in the Catechism. I would love it if you could name the exact passage in the bible that contradicts a specific passage in the Catechism. Enlighten us, not with generalities or text dumps, but exact numbers, and why you think the bible contradicts it. [/quote] but that would be work, and pj has demonstrated beyond a doubt that he is a lazy Christian.
holly.o Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 [quote name='pjrizzo' timestamp='1294099960' post='2196300'] hello and thank you for your response. If you die trusting "holy mother church' you will pay for your own sin. There is no religious system on earth that can save you. Only a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, who covers you with His perfect righteousness and fills you with His Holy Spirit. Jesus said "you must be born again' Jn 3:3. It is not something you do, but something God does to you. Your spirit which is born dead, is made alive and you have the free gift of eternal life in Christ. [/quote] As I said in my post, which you quoted, we trust first in Our Lord, and also in the Church He founded. I wonder what makes you think I or any other Catholic doesn't have a "personal relationship with Jesus Christ"? I was raised Baptist and never once encountered the depth of love and devotion Catholics (practicing and sincere) have toward Jesus. It was mostly talk and praise & worship songs, to be honest about my experience. I love Him with my entire self. We speak of Him as the Spouse of our soul, Our Beloved - like the Beloved in the Song of Solomon. Speak with a Nun who is faithful to the Church about the mystery of her consecration to God. Read St. Teresa of Avila, St. John of the Cross, St. Catherine of Siena, St. Francis & St. Clare. If you think they don't have a "personal relationship" with Jesus, then I don't know what your criteria are for a relationship.... please explain! As I said, [i]I love Him with all my being[/i]. And that entails submitting to whatever authority He's instituted for my own and others' salvation. I've given up many things to follow Jesus - I don't say this to brag, but in the same way that St. Paul rejoices that it was all trash compared to what has been gained. I try to order everything I do to give Him glory, honor, and praise, and to grow closer to Him. This is a very, very brief description of what constitutes my personal relationship with Christ - what is yours? If you would like to debate points of difference, do so. But be careful about accusing (albeit indirectly) that someone doesn't have an authentic love for the one they call their Lord and Savior. It's incredibly uncharitable - the same as if I walked into your house, and (for the sake of example, presuming you're married), without knowing you, insisted that you didn't love your wife. [quote]Don't take my word, ask many questions. I used to be catholic, then I read the bible and it contradicted everything I had been taught in catechism, catholic school, etc. [/quote] I posed some specific questions to you, but you didn't answer them. I would be interested in knowing your answers.
liseski Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 (edited) To be honest, so would I. I fail to see any specific answers from the OP...and I agree with the poster that suggested taking it point-by-point. There is way too much noise in his original post. Break it down, pj, and let's go Edited January 4, 2011 by liseski
AudreyGrace Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 [font=arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif][size=2] I was saved at Baptism... and Confirmation... and especially on July 7th, 2010 during Adoration when I had a more personal "re-conversion". I absolutely felt born again that night. [/size][/font][font=arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif][size=2] I'm glad to say that I have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, and I'm pretty sure the other members who've commented on your thread do too. I think you're confused with our motives. For myself, the Catholic faith supplements my relationship with Jesus Christ in an extraordinarily beautiful way. I have not conformed my relationship with Jesus to fit into a religion. Both go hand in hand, and whenever I delve deeper into the Catholic faith and the Scriptures, my relationship with Christ grows exponentially. I think that most of us on here want you to realize this so you can also maximize your relationship with Jesus Christ. [/size][/font][font=arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif][size=2] As Catholics, we are born again in the Sacraments which are bestowed upon us by God. Example: being born again through Baptism, being freed from original sin. [/size][/font][font=arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif][size=2] We have all asked questions about our faith, but we did not turn to ourselves for the answers. You read the Bible alone. It would be like me trying to read my Calculus text book and trying to learn integrals without talking to my teacher. Sure, I might understand some things, but I am in no way able to pass an exam. As someone else mentioned earlier, at a glance it might look like some things in the Bible contradict Catholic teachings. However, you probably didn't fully understand the Catholic teaching or the Bible passage in the first place. It takes more than reading. It takes praying to the Holy Spirit for inspiration and humility to not trust in our own words. [/size][/font][font=arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif][size=2] I went to Catholic school too, but ironically, it wasn't until the summer before my senior year in a public high school that I formed a personal relationship with Christ on a whole new level. [/size][/font][font=arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif][size=2] If there is no religious system on earth that can save us... then what about Christianity? Technically speaking, Christianity is a religion. So, if you believe in no religion, then I hope you've never called yourself a Christian. =/ [/size][/font][font=arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif][size=2] It's hard to believe that you set up a phatmass account and check it regularly just to tell Catholics that we're wrong. I hope that there's a part of you that is still searching within the Catholic faith for answers. Keep your mind and heart open to God's love. [/size][/font][font=arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif][size=2] [/size][/font][font=arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif][size=2]-Audrey[/size][/font]
havok579257 Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 why do all new non-catholic posters never answer any questions brought forth to them? i think its they either have no real knowledge of the bible and so can not answer said questions or they are just here to try and tick people off. so which one applies to our new poster.
cmotherofpirl Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 [quote name='pjrizzo' timestamp='1294099960' post='2196300'] Only a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, who covers you with His perfect righteousness and fills you with His Holy Spirit. Jesus said "you must be born again' Jn 3:3. It is not something you do, but something God does to you. Your spirit which is born dead, is made alive and you have the free gift of eternal life in Christ. Don't take my word, ask many questions. I used to be catholic, then I read the bible and it contradicted everything I had been taught in catechism, catholic school, etc. love in Christ PR [/quote] Here is my testimony. I have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, I have read the complete Scripture [color="#FF0000"]5[/color] times, I have asked the questions for many many years and I AM a happy and believing Catholic. Here are the logical facts which you seem to ignor. There are no contradictions between the Scriptures and the Church, how could there be- it was picked by the Church in Councils and preserved by the Church. Would the Church claim a testament it didn't agree with?? The New Testament came from the Church, it didn't just plop out of the sky one day. The New Testament is guarenteed by the Church as the Word of God. Therefore if you attack the Catholic Church you actually attack Scriptures. You claim to be a catholic but you simply don't understand catholic teachings, so somewhere along the line you you were misinformed or confused. You also claim to have given up a lucrative church job in the Catholic Church, and that is almost too funny to comment on, you must have us confused with a denomination of some other group, because pay in the Church is about the same as working for the Peace Corps : the terms lucrative pay and Catholic Church is an oxymoron.
MithLuin Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 To be fair, it is rather exhausting and trying to be the one person arguing a position while everyone else in the thread gangs up on you. If there's a ton of new posts to wade through every time you check the thread...well, your enthusiasm for the topic is likely to lag. That being said, someone who comes to a Catholic forum posting that the Catholic faith has got it all wrong certainly must expect that sort of reaction. So, if you're not up for it...why seek it out? And yes, Jesus Christ is my personal Lord and Savior. Jesus, I trust in You!
Jesus_lol Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 I was once a new noncatholic poster, but i was not given to text dumping, and i frequently got in back and forth debates, answering and questioning in my own words. Guess they dont make em like they used to
Cam42 Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 [quote name='pjrizzo' timestamp='1294099960' post='2196300'] hello and thank you for your response. If you die trusting "holy mother church' you will pay for your own sin. There is no religious system on earth that can save you. Only a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, who covers you with His perfect righteousness and fills you with His Holy Spirit. Jesus said "you must be born again' Jn 3:3. It is not something you do, but something God does to you. Your spirit which is born dead, is made alive and you have the free gift of eternal life in Christ. Don't take my word, ask many questions. I used to be catholic, then I read the bible and it contradicted everything I had been taught in catechism, catholic school, etc. love in Christ PR [/quote] Hey pjrizzo, I know that you're not prone to answering my posts for some reason, but could you show me where it says that if I die trusting in the Church, I will pay for my own sin? That isn't in the Bible. Nowhere... Also, could you please finish St. John's thought and not take it completely out of context. In order for John 3:3 to work, you have to include John 3:4-5. Thanks.... I really need to know where it says that Jesus' perfect righteousness will cover me and fill me with His Holy Spirit? So, are you saying that there is no Trinity? Are you saying that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to Jesus? Hey, don't worry, we're not taking your word for it. Mainly because your word is flawed. BTW, once Catholic, always Catholic. John 3:3-5. Also, there is nothing that is in Holy Scripture that contradicts the Church. Not one line. Can you please engage me, this is getting boring...this whole waiting for you to be passive/aggressive and then doing some sort of text dump....although, it is almost a challenge....as dear ol Rush has to say, I will run circles around you with half my brain tied behind my back. Also, since you brought up the koine Greek, how about we start quoting Scripture in koine Greek going forward....I have no issue with that. Thanks.
sixpence Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 Dear PJ, I do not know what to tell you... We do accept Jesus as Savior, and He has granted us the Holy Spirit, in whom we trust.... and He has led us to this Faith Wondering what your take is on Matthew 25:31-46 (the sheep and goats parable)... It seems to me as though the goats are addressing Christ as "Lord," but even so they do not receive salvation...
AudreyGrace Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 [quote name='sixpence' timestamp='1294117498' post='2196439'] Wondering what your take is on Matthew 25:31-46 (the sheep and goats parable)... It seems to me as though the goats are addressing Christ as "Lord," but even so they do not receive salvation... [/quote] Sounds to me like Jesus is preaching the need for faith with works to get salvation. Never saw that scripture that way before, thank you so much!
MithLuin Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 The goats are guilty of hypocrisy....they might [i]say[/i] 'Lord, Lord,' but their lives reveal that God is [i]not[/i] lord of them. The Lord/servant relationship has very clear expectations on the part of the servant - if you just do your own thing and ignore your Master's instructions, you [i]will[/i] get in trouble!
Papist Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 [quote name='pjrizzo' timestamp='1294099960' post='2196300'] I used to be catholic, then I read the bible and it contradicted everything I had been taught in catechism, catholic school, etc. [/quote] You were taught poorly. Did you have Jesuit teachers?
Papist Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1294078094' post='2196184'] [color="black"][font="Arial"][size="2"]Hey PR. This is awesome news!!! How do I get in on this guaranteed salvation regardless of what I do...and don't do? That will be sweet if I can still go to heaven after I leave my wife and run off with my neighbor's 14 year old daughter...against her will of course. [/size][/font][/color] [color="black"][font="Arial"][size="2"]But wait a minute...I need your help trying to figure out if either Christ lied or failed when He said He will protect His [/size][/font][/color][font="Arial"][size="2"]Church until the end of time…b/c if what you say is true it has to be one or the other.[/size][/font] [font="Arial"][size="2"]Also, please explain John 21:25 -[color="red"] There are also many other things that Jesus did, but if these were to be described individually, I do not think the whole world would contain the books that would be written. [/color]I always thought this meant that Jesus did more than what is written in the Bible. [/size][/font] [font="Arial"][size="2"]Please help me!!!![/size][/font][img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif[/img] [/quote] PR, I am still waiting for your reply.[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/think2.gif[/img]
Adrestia Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 [quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1294115132' post='2196420'] I was once a new noncatholic poster, but i was not given to text dumping, and i frequently got in back and forth debates, answering and questioning in my own words. Guess they dont make em like they used to [/quote] That's because you're not a mindless Chick follower. We respect people that think for themselves, even when we disagree with the thoughts.
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