Eucharistic Adoration

[Justified Saint]

The Catholic Church does not pass judgement on every verse in scripture, there are in fact less that an dozen where it has infallibly declared the exact interpretation. My understanding of the text is completely in line with a consistent understanding of the Eucharist and John 6 - so please stop trying to pit me against my own church.

[God Conquers]

I'm not pitting you against your church. I'm pitting your church against the early church fathers and St. Ignatius.

[the lumberjack]

its you against Tradition, JS....

who's gonna win?

your personal, yet seemingly biblical belief?

or the writings from 2000 years ago?

[Fiat_Voluntas_Tua]

[quote]Actually, the Eucharist CAN be physically satisfying, there are saints who have lived for years just on daily consumption of the eucharist[/quote]

I am like 90% sure that there is a Convent, where all the sister's live only off of The Body and Blood of Christ.

Pax et Agape per Maria, Andy

[Justified Saint]

GC, actually the Church realizes the dual nature of the symoblic/literal language in John 6. To suggest a complete literal translation all throughout the passage of John 6 is to go against logic and the Church.

[cmotherofpirl]

The proper meaning of any text is first literal.

[Justified Saint]

And then you find out that it isn't literal.

[cmotherofpirl]

yep.

[God Conquers]

Lumberjack, you still haven't answered the question.

Will you? Your silence is just as telling as any answer you could give.

[Justified Saint]

[quote]yep. [/quote]

Well I am glad that is settled.

[the lumberjack]

[quote name='Justified Saint' date='Apr 21 2004, 10:45 PM'] GC, actually the Church realizes the dual nature of the symoblic/literal language in John 6. To suggest a complete literal translation all throughout the passage of John 6 is to go against logic and the Church. [/quote]
apparently no, JS...its all literal...but thats not my call.

as for me being a judge of context, I'm no judge of anything...but simple common sense and examining:

1. Who was doing the writing
2. Who he is writing to
3. Why he is writing to them.

this is very simple for the epistles written, but as for when Christ is speaking...you have to look at it pretty much the same way.

Who is He speaking to?
What is He speaking of?
What message does the group of verses in this passage convey?


you will all no likely call me my own interpreter of the Bible...and I don't really care. say what you say, many here still lack contextual backing for the scriptures they use...

God bless.

[Justified Saint]

And a complete symoblic translation is just as confused and illogical as I have demonstrated in my first post.

How about we keep with the discussion and avoid getting sidetracked by your constant rhetoric.

[the lumberjack]

I guess as long as people don't like what I post, I'm doing something right.

God bless.

[jesussaves]

[quote][quote]faith plus works is a good indication of the error of the cc[/quote][quote]The Catholic Church NEVER once taught that we are saved through good works alone. For 2000 years the Catholic Church has taught that we are saved through grace, and from our grace flow good works. They help, but you must repent and change your life to grow in God's grace in order to be saved. [/quote][/quote]

first look at what i said. it says faith PLUS works. and then you said i said that the cc has never taught we are saved by good works alone. either you did not read my post since i said faith AND works, or you did not really reply to my post.

also. look at what you said in the first sentence. then look at what you said in the last sentence. just to reiterate. you teach that you are saved by faith and works by grace. this is subtle but it is heresy and a complete rejection of the Gosple of Jesus Christ.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='the lumberjack' date='Apr 22 2004, 01:00 PM'] apparently no, JS...its all literal...but thats not my call.

as for me being a judge of context, I'm no judge of anything...but simple common sense and examining:

1. Who was doing the writing
2. Who he is writing to
3. Why he is writing to them.

this is very simple for the epistles written, but as for when Christ is speaking...you have to look at it pretty much the same way.

Who is He speaking to?
What is He speaking of?
What message does the group of verses in this passage convey?


you will all no likely call me my own interpreter of the Bible...and I don't really care. say what you say, many here still lack contextual backing for the scriptures they use...

God bless. [/quote]
The problem is lumber we use common sense and context as well, and we say your interpretations are wrong.

And because you believe private interpretation, you really can't argue with our interpretation, because by your own standards they're just as valid as yours.

Ours just happens to agree with the teachings of the Apostles and their disciples, and your doesn't.

So who should people believe, the Church that today teaches the interpretions of the Apostles, or some group that showed up 1500 years later?

Or as Father Groseshel would say " Were you and yours there?"

We can say yes to that question, can you?

[God Conquers]

[quote]this is very simple for the epistles written, but as for when Christ is speaking...you have to look at it pretty much the same way.

Who is He speaking to?
What is He speaking of?
What message does the group of verses in this passage convey?[/quote]

This is what I'm talking about though. How can you say that you are a better judge of what Christ was saying than the majority of people who were alive during the lifetime of His apostles?

[God Conquers]

Jesussaves,

How is it that you judge heresy? What are you judging it against, and where does your authority to affirm that come from?

[maxk]

[quote name='jesussaves' date='Apr 20 2004, 12:45 PM'] the idea of faith plus works is good evidence against the cc.

[/quote]
You make it sound like the Catholic Church is wrong just becuase of this idea of Faith [i]and[/i] good works.

What is so heretical about what I wrote?

Let me reiterate:

The Catholic Church teaches that we are saved by God's grace alone. Grace enables us to have the saving faith that works in love:

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from you; it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so no one may boast. For we are his handiwork, created in Christ Jesus for the good works that God has prepared in advance, that we should live in them." -- Ephesians 2:8-10

All good works must be done in the grace of God to have any supernatural value.

If my previous post contradicted this, then I apologize, but if it didn't, then what's wrong with it?

Edited April 22, 2004 by maxk

[the lumberjack]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Apr 22 2004, 12:45 PM'] The problem is lumber we use common sense and context as well, and we say your interpretations are wrong.

And because you believe private interpretation, you really can't argue with our interpretation, because by your own standards they're just as valid as yours.

Ours just happens to agree with the teachings of the Apostles and their disciples, and your doesn't.

So who should people believe, the Church that today teaches the interpretions of the Apostles, or some group that showed up 1500 years later?

Or as Father Groseshel would say " Were you and yours there?"

We can say yes to that question, can you? [/quote]
because your religion claims to have been there does not mean anything.

nothing.

I could claim to be a descendant of the King of Spain...how do you know I'm not?

the word of man means nothing...[url="http://www.geocities.com/paulntobin/peterpope.html"]here is the history and validity of your PETRINE PAPACY[/url]

anything other than that is merely speculation and rumor.

and as many times as I've said it, I don't interpret the Bible for myself. My Pastor and other elders in the Church teach me...from the Bible. Yeah, we respect tradition, and go back to what the early church founders said, but never use their writings as anything more than that...writings from holy, yes holy, and fallible men.

[Livin_the_MASS]

LJ,

Have you ever asked the Holy Spirit to direct you were He wants you to go?

Just curious?

God Bless You
Jason


PS I like your other picture better!