God Conquers Posted April 23, 2004 Posted April 23, 2004 So you don't know what your stance is on contraception until you ask your "pastor".... How is that different from us unthinking Catholic automatons?
jesussaves Posted April 23, 2004 Posted April 23, 2004 (edited) [quote]Jesussaves, How is it that you judge heresy? What are you judging it against, and where does your authority to affirm that come from? [/quote] i believe my authority comes from God. i believe the bible says what i think it does. i may be wrong but i don't think so and when it's all said and done i KNOW that God would not expect more than for you to be true to yourself. now you believe your authority.. the catholic church.. and yes i realize the bible.. comes from God. what are you judging it against, and where does your authority to affirm that come from? now don't say from the pope and his predecessors. by what authority to you know this? i agree that you are noble in that you hand your ability to decide right from wrong completely over to someone other than yourself. but remember, humility in submission when you see the error of your ways can come in other ways too. don't you see that all our beliefs are subject to error? be true to yourself and follow God as you see fit. stop trusting in the authority of the catholic church so that you can trust in the holy spirit to guide you. if you think that the spirit leads you to your church, so be it. but please pray, you will see the love of God who saves you for nothing that you could ever do (even with the subtle heresy of "doing" something by grace), but by true faith. submit yourself to Christ Jesus and you will never taste death. Edited April 23, 2004 by jesussaves
jesussaves Posted April 23, 2004 Posted April 23, 2004 [quote]So you don't know what your stance is on contraception until you ask your "pastor".... How is that different from us unthinking Catholic automatons? [/quote] it is different because you can check your pastor against other authorities and ultimately against the guidance of the holy spirit. you may be wrong, i may be wrong in my beliefs. but be true to yourself no matter what, God expects nothing more. and no matter what please, please, read my last post and trust in Christ Jesus.
CreepyCrawler Posted April 23, 2004 Posted April 23, 2004 [quote name='jesussaves' date='Apr 23 2004, 11:56 AM'] i believe my authority comes from God. i believe the bible says what i think it does. i may be wrong but i don't think so and when it's all said and done i KNOW that God would not expect more than for you to be true to yourself. . [/quote] i always thought that God wanted us to be true to Him, not our sinful, imperfect selves.
Livin_the_MASS Posted April 23, 2004 Posted April 23, 2004 [quote]stop trusting in the authority of the catholic church so that you can trust in the holy spirit to guide you.[/quote] The Holy Spirit does guide the Catholic Church! If we stop tusting in the Catholic Church then we stop trusting in the Holy Spirit. [b][i][u]I trust in The Catholic Church and the Holy Spirit who guides it! Amen![/u][/i][/b] God Bless You Jason
jesussaves Posted April 23, 2004 Posted April 23, 2004 (edited) [quote]i always thought that God wanted us to be true to Him, not our sinful, imperfect selves. [/quote] [quote]The Holy Spirit does guide the Catholic Church! If we stop tusting in the Catholic Church then we stop trusting in the Holy Spirit. I trust in The Catholic Church and the Holy Spirit who guides it! Amen![/quote] i admire your faith in the catholic church. but this is the kind of religious fanaticism that is probably not healthy. i can question my beliefs and acknowlege that i questioned them and came back and at least acknowlege my point that you the fallible are believing in something infallible. you can do all this and then come back to your faith, and maybe you did, i may be mistaken. but neither of you have acknowledged anything. if you had at least did this, i would think your faith is healthy. but as it is, it seems unhealthy. Edited April 23, 2004 by jesussaves
Dave Posted April 23, 2004 Posted April 23, 2004 [quote name='jesussaves' date='Apr 23 2004, 01:56 PM'] i believe my authority comes from God. i believe the bible says what i think it does. i may be wrong but i don't think so and when it's all said and done i KNOW that God would not expect more than for you to be true to yourself. [/quote] So if you think the Bible says something, then it does? Other people think the Bible says stuff that is different from what you think it says. So who's right? Y'all can't all be right. [quote]now you believe your authority.. the catholic church.. and yes i realize the bible.. comes from God. what are you judging it against, and where does your authority to affirm that come from? now don't say from the pope and his predecessors. by what authority to you know this?[/quote] You don't want us to say it, but it's true -- the pope and his predecessors. Jesus instituted the papacy, and there's been an unbroken line from St. Peter to now, and the Church has taught the exact same doctrines for 2000 years. [quote]i agree that you are noble in that you hand your ability to decide right from wrong completely over to someone other than yourself. but remember, humility in submission when you see the error of your ways can come in other ways too. don't you see that all our beliefs are subject to error?[/quote] Only if they're not guided by the Holy Spirit. And I get the impression that you think your beliefs are guided by the Holy Spirit. I'm curious; why do you think that? Why couldn't you be wrong? [quote]be true to yourself and follow God as you see fit. stop trusting in the authority of the catholic church so that you can trust in the holy spirit to guide you. if you think that the spirit leads you to your church, so be it. [/quote] Follow God as we see fit? Shouldn't we be following God as GOD sees fit? And please explain why you think there's a contradiction between the Catholic Church and the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit guides the Catholic Church, actually. [quote]but please pray, you will see the love of God who saves you for nothing that you could ever do (even with the subtle heresy of "doing" something by grace), but by true faith. submit yourself to Christ Jesus and you will never taste death.[/quote] What makes you think we don't see the love of God or submit ourselves to Christ? We know He loves us no matter what! And why do you believe it's heretical to say that works play a part in our salvation? We've provided ample evidence elsewhere that they do.
maxk Posted April 23, 2004 Author Posted April 23, 2004 (edited) First of all, you have not yet explained the "heresy" in my previous posts. [quote]but be true to yourself no matter what, God expects nothing more[/quote] God expects us to find where the Truth lies, for then we will find [i]Him[/i]. I highly doubt He will be totally satisfied with someone who does not try to find the Truth even if they believe themselves to be guided by the Holy Spirit. Of course, I'm not damning anyone, because I cannot judge anyone. But it stands to reason that we must strive to the end to seek the Truth and not remain content with our own personal interpretation. To say that God doesn't expect anymore from us is not entirely true. It is true that God does expect us to do more than we can, but we cannot cease seeking the Truth in everything we do. As I said before to Lumberjack, God does not contradict Himself, and thus there must be a truthful answer for all of the issues that we are discussing. As Catholics, we are ensured that the Pope will interpret and teach infallibly when he is teaching, as the Vicar of Christ, the entire Church on matters of Faith and morals. We are assured of this in the Bible. However, no where in the Bible does it say that [i]you[/i] are assured infallibility from the Holy Spirit in your interpretation. God Bless, maxk Edited April 23, 2004 by maxk
jesussaves Posted April 24, 2004 Posted April 24, 2004 [quote] Only if they're not guided by the Holy Spirit. And I get the impression that you think your beliefs are guided by the Holy Spirit. I'm curious; why do you think that? Why couldn't you be wrong? [/quote] i am saddened you have decided to follow your own interpretation based on your parent's or some priest's interpretation that you should be in the catholic church. you have the right to follow it, but i believe you are in grave error. reason the ways of God for yourself, He will guide you if you let Him and trust Him.
God Conquers Posted April 24, 2004 Posted April 24, 2004 Where does the Bible tell you to trust it ALONE?
Dave Posted April 24, 2004 Posted April 24, 2004 [quote name='jesussaves' date='Apr 23 2004, 10:24 PM'] i am saddened you have decided to follow your own interpretation based on your parent's or some priest's interpretation that you should be in the catholic church. you have the right to follow it, but i believe you are in grave error. reason the ways of God for yourself, He will guide you if you let Him and trust Him. [/quote] My interpretation? Au contraire! It's not my interpretation but GOD'S interpretation. You say you believe I'm in grave error. Prove it. I've reasoned the ways of God for myself, and I've let Him guide me, and I've trusted Him. You know what? It led me straight to the Catholic Church.
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