MarkKurallSchuenemann Posted January 9, 2011 Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='thessalonian' timestamp='1294251278' post='2197000'] The question is what is being worshipped? A book which could be construed as a graven image or the "superior" exegetical skills of a new Christian who hasn't likely even read the whole bible through yet, much less read it cover to cover and read commentaries by scholars. "Trust not in your own understanding proverbs 3:5 says". Protestantism says you are the only one you can trust to interpret the Bible. [/quote] Only scripture can intrepret scripture. [b]No human being can[/b], only God through him illuminating your mind by reading the scripture - and then you get a revelation. Let me prove this. [quote]Provers 1:7 The [b]fear[/b] of the [b]LORD[/b] is the beginning of knowledge: but geniuses despise wisdom and instruction.[/quote] Later we get [quote]Proverbs 3:7 Be not wise in thine own eyes: [b]fear[/b] the [b]LORD[/b], and depart from evil.[/quote] [quote] Proverbs 8:13 The [b]fear[/b] of the [b]LORD[/b] is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.[/quote] So, I can be fairly certain, when Christians talk about fearing the lord, it is really about hating evil, which is boiled down to thinking your are too important, and not being humble. On facebook, I replied to this post - [quote][size="4"]"His pleasure is not in the strength of the horse, nor his delight in the legs of the warrior; the LORD delights in those who fear him, who put their hope in his unfailing love." Psalm 147:10-11.......What does it mean to "Fear God" ?...post your replies here:[/size][/quote] [b][size="4"][/size][/b] this way - I've always interpret scripture with scripture. The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate. Proverbs 8:13 IOW, always remain humble before God. Warriors can boast in their victories, and men who have fast and strong horses can brag about how many Kentucky Derbies they have won, but a real man and woman of God will know, none of that really matters - only knowing Christ matters!
Winchester Posted January 9, 2011 Author Posted January 9, 2011 Like I've said before: Literacy is required for salvation.
MarkKurallSchuenemann Posted January 9, 2011 Posted January 9, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1294545609' post='2197962'] Like I've said before: Literacy is required for salvation. [/quote] No, just that you listen, believe, and follow according to what you have been taught by scripture. LOL! You're the funniest debater ever! I'm saying only scripture can interpret scripture. Don't trust another human being, well, ever! Always evaluate what is being told to you based upon the faith that you have been taught by the apostles! Edited January 9, 2011 by MarkKurallSchuenemann
Winchester Posted January 9, 2011 Author Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1294545901' post='2197967'] No, just that you listen, believe, and follow according to what you have been taught by scripture. LOL! You're the funniest debater ever! [/quote] In scriptures, that adherence isn't limited to what's written down.
MarkKurallSchuenemann Posted January 9, 2011 Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1294545977' post='2197971'] In scriptures, that adherence isn't limited to what's written down. [/quote] True, but you must always judge that with what the apostles taught. Every spiritual teaching has a spirit attached to it (hence why Christ said, you are either for me or against me). So we must always go back to what the apostles said when someone is teaching us. Fortunately, we have a great document to do that with - the Bible, because it is an accurate document that we can point to and say, the apostles said Jesus said this, and the apostles said Jesus said that, so I will stand by the Jesus the apostles preached!
cmotherofpirl Posted January 9, 2011 Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1294546253' post='2197972'] True, but you must always judge that with what the apostles taught. Every spiritual teaching has a spirit attached to it (hence why Christ said, you are either for me or against me). So we must always go back to what the apostles said when someone is teaching us. Fortunately, we have a great document to do that with - the Bible, because it is an accurate document that we can point to and say, the apostles said Jesus said this, and the apostles said Jesus said that, so I will stand by the Jesus the apostles preached! [/quote] However, not everything done by the Apostles and Evangelists is in Scripture.
Ed Normile Posted January 9, 2011 Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1294545901' post='2197967'] No, just that you listen, believe, and follow according to what you have been taught by scripture. LOL! You're the funniest debater ever! I'm saying only scripture can interpret scripture. [b]Don't trust another human being, well, ever[/b]! Always evaluate what is being told to you based upon the faith that you have been taught by the apostles! [/quote] So I guess you would have been among those who rejected Jesus at the time? Afterall he was a human being during his ministry and although the OT foretold his coming it never said when he would come., and of course you would have to had evaluated what you wre told based upon the lessons you were taught by the prophets. ed
MarkKurallSchuenemann Posted January 9, 2011 Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1294552820' post='2198032'] However, not everything done by the Apostles and Evangelists is in Scripture. [/quote] Then, how do we discern things? If there is secret information that has been witheld by anybody, that means someone can just make stuff up and say, you can't say it's wrong because you don't know everything! Just be a good slave and do what I say, and everything will be fine. I own you, don't think for yourselves, just do what I say and do, because I have all the knowledge and you're just ignorant creatons who need to be told how to think, what to do, and how to behave.
MarkKurallSchuenemann Posted January 9, 2011 Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1294553675' post='2198040'] So I guess you would have been among those who rejected Jesus at the time? Afterall he was a human being during his ministry and although the OT foretold his coming it never said when he would come., and of course you would have to had evaluated what you wre told based upon the lessons you were taught by the prophets. ed [/quote] Well, if you want to think that, that's your prerogative.
Archaeology cat Posted January 9, 2011 Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1294554229' post='2198045'] Then, how do we discern things? If there is secret information that has been witheld by anybody, that means someone can just make stuff up and say, you can't say it's wrong because you don't know everything! Just be a good slave and do what I say, and everything will be fine. I own you, don't think for yourselves, just do what I say and do, because I have all the knowledge and you're just ignorant creatons who need to be told how to think, what to do, and how to behave. [/quote] We go to the Church Jesus left us (Matthew 16). This isn't secret information, but is the teaching of the Apostles, prior to the writing of the NT and canonising of the Bible as a whole. Even Paul instructed the early Christians to hold fast to his teachings, whether written or oral (2 Thes 2). God bless
MarkKurallSchuenemann Posted January 9, 2011 Posted January 9, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Archaeology cat' timestamp='1294555875' post='2198052'] We go to the Church Jesus left us (Matthew 16). This isn't secret information, but is the teaching of the Apostles, prior to the writing of the NT and canonising of the Bible as a whole. Even Paul instructed the early Christians to hold fast to his teachings, whether written or oral (2 Thes 2). God bless [/quote] That's circular logic, My first argument is that we need the Bible to discern what people are saying to test if it is of God or not. But the argument presented to me was not everything is in the bible, so my argument to that is - but that means there is secret information that prevents me from discerning if what people are saying is of God or not, so your argument, there is no secret, just go to the Catholic Church - but how do I discern if someone in the catholic church is saying something of God or not, unless I go back to the scriptures that state - [quote]Hebrews 4:12 For the [b]word[/b] of [b]God[/b] [b]is[/b] quick, and powerful, and [b]sharper[/b] than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [b]is[/b] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.[/quote] How can I discern what is in another person's heart, unless I compare it to the word of God, the Bible? That means anybody can come up to me and say, because my religion says this, and that, and this other thing - you must also do if, and I must obey like a slave to that person if I don't believe God's full revelation is not in the Bible! Edited January 9, 2011 by MarkKurallSchuenemann
Papist Posted January 9, 2011 Posted January 9, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1294535482' post='2197912'] Papist, first I love the name, I have actually been called a Papist several times during my life by those who used it as an insult. I am sorry if I came off as disagreeable with you, I did not mean it that way I was just trying to clarify what I wrote. I get testy here some time as I have been berated and gang attacked just for stating an opinion here and I guess I felt your post was going to be the start of another round of abuse. I see you are new here, a hint for you, do not say its not proper to drink in the consecrated ground of a catholic crypt for cardinals or you will get smacked down by the masses ! ed [/quote] Thanks for the tip, although I am not sure what it means. I have difficultly in online forums b/c I use the Socratic method. This method is not that compatible with online forums. Most people take my question as if I am attacking thier assertion as if I am saying they are wrong. People usually take me as difficult. Therefore, I am well trained in the art of apology. I prefer in person dialog. I thought the whole point of these forums is to dailog back and forth with raw honesty. Many times in turns into a dual of wits, quotes, etc. Pride is a terrible thing. Edited January 9, 2011 by Papist
Winchester Posted January 9, 2011 Author Posted January 9, 2011 He also said "He who is not against us is for us."
Archaeology cat Posted January 9, 2011 Posted January 9, 2011 Mark, Scripture is important, to be sure, but it is not the only source of Divine Revelation, as we also have Sacred Tradition. This is corroborated both by the Bible, and by history, for we see that the early Christians did not have a defined canon of Scripture. We see Jesus giving us a Church, but not a canon of Scripture. We see the Apostles making a decision regarding circumcision and expecting the entire Church to follow it, not to have people look at their own interpretations of Scripture. We trust that God keeps His promise that the gates of Hell will not prevail over His Church, and so listen to Her. As for discerning a person's heart, that is up to God. I cannot discern another's heart. God bless
MarkKurallSchuenemann Posted January 9, 2011 Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1294583013' post='2198114'] He also said "He who is not against us is for us." [/quote] I agree with you on that, I'm just saying, scripture is an important document to discern what people are teaching, and if that teaching contradicts it, adds to it, or anything else, it is completely optional (except the contradicts part - it will never be okay for abortions, for instance - though you are called to love the men and women who perform them or have had them!)
MarkKurallSchuenemann Posted January 9, 2011 Posted January 9, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Archaeology cat' timestamp='1294586746' post='2198121'] Mark, Scripture is important, to be sure, but it is not the only source of Divine Revelation, as we also have Sacred Tradition. This is corroborated both by the Bible, and by history, for we see that the early Christians did not have a defined canon of Scripture. We see Jesus giving us a Church, but not a canon of Scripture. We see the Apostles making a decision regarding circumcision and expecting the entire Church to follow it, not to have people look at their own interpretations of Scripture. We trust that God keeps His promise that the gates of Hell will not prevail over His Church, and so listen to Her. As for discerning a person's heart, that is up to God. I cannot discern another's heart. God bless [/quote] I would like to point out, you said your traditions are corroborated by the Bible, and history. Well, doesn't that mean you just said, if your sacred traditions weren't part of the Bible, than you would have to throw them out! I have to disagree with you on the discernment of another's heart, as God does give the gift of discernment of spirits. Or are you saying any con-man can come up to you and say, hey dude, give me 3,000 dollars and I will turn it into a 1,000,000 for you, and you would actually give them that money. If you wouldn't, and I hope you wouldn't, then you have proved you have the ability to discern another person's heart and another person's spirit! Those types of things are always one part spiritual, you can feel in your gut that what someone is saying isn't right, and one part knowledge of the bible! Though, with what I see in the world today, I do see a lack of people using the discernment of spirits - or why would there be 1.1 billion atheists and agnostics in this world. Edited January 9, 2011 by MarkKurallSchuenemann
cmotherofpirl Posted January 9, 2011 Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1294593493' post='2198162'] I agree with you on that, I'm just saying, scripture is an important document to discern what people are teaching, and if that teaching contradicts it, adds to it, or anything else, it is completely optional ..[/quote] Scripture is one of the 3 pillars of the Church, but so is the Sacred Tradition from where Scriptures came, and the teaching Authority of the Church - the Magisterium. Scriptures cannot stand alone, because they did not come from isolation, but from the heart of the Church.
MarkKurallSchuenemann Posted January 9, 2011 Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1294594475' post='2198168'] Scripture is one of the 3 pillars of the Church, but so is the Sacred Tradition from where Scriptures came, and the teaching Authority of the Church - the Magisterium. Scriptures cannot stand alone, because they did not come from isolation, but from the heart of the Church. [/quote] Or is it the traditions that came from the scriptures? You can't know, can you, because were are not there!
Vincent Vega Posted January 9, 2011 Posted January 9, 2011 STORMSTOPPER[img]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/__cEsDmRxXqY/TQKRLZOg7AI/AAAAAAAABEA/NA5bW2Cy1Wg/s1600/lol-face.jpg[/img]
MarkKurallSchuenemann Posted January 9, 2011 Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1294598789' post='2198185'] STORMSTOPPER[img]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/__cEsDmRxXqY/TQKRLZOg7AI/AAAAAAAABEA/NA5bW2Cy1Wg/s1600/lol-face.jpg[/img] [/quote] Run for the hills, someone with a different opinion. Hunker down guys, get in those trenches!
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now